Richard Dolan, UFO Disclosure, Toothpaste Out of the Tube? |438|

Alex

Administrator
#41
I am no fan of people who engage in catch and release fishing and who think they are superior to the catch and eat. To me traumatising a creature for one's own pleasure is getting close to evil - as a self-serving lack of moral empathy.
yeah I mean I guess I kind of know what you mean but I think these kind of analogies are what really cloud the issue for me. it's kind of a walk through the forest kills a bug thing. I thinking of Sam's to bucket analogy... from a practical commonsense standpoint it seems like we really only have to concern ourselves with the buckets that are near full. Satanic ritual abuse of six-year-old children is an easy call... catch-and-release of brownies in the brook less so.
 

Alex

Administrator
#43
Alex said/asked - "What is the technology of the consciousness interface?" This is where Richard's story about the "a-ha" moment he had when feeding his dog where he saw the argument some make - [paraphrased] "How arrogant we humans are to think we are the pinnacle of intelligence whereby we can figure out everything." So on the one hand, we find ourselves requiring to know the details of a "how" to allow ourselves to actually believe we can do something.

Imagine a cave man having to know how he makes his body move into a position it can reach up and grab a berry from a tree to be able to do so?

But this is where we seem stuck now.
yeah but the flip side is to believe that there's a little Genie inside your cell phone that makes communication possible. there is Merit to having a scientific/materialistic understanding/interpretation of things.
 

Alex

Administrator
#44
So... TTSA - as a former odds maker by trade, I have learned to look at all possibilities my mind can derive, add a possibility set that is titled "none of the above" and weight each one as to what I think the odds are any of the listed possibilities are true (including the "none of the above").

Is TTSA a psyop. Studying the interview carefully, it is clear that Richard Dolan was considering the question by defining psyop as one thing and eventually it seemed Alex was considering the term in a much different (almost like a universal) context.

So I have two different sets of odds, one for Richard's definition of psyop and one for what it seems became Alex's intended definition. Before I state them, I am still not very clear as to what Alex may have meant... but here goes.

Richard's definition of psyop -

Is TTSA a psyop?

No - 95%

Yes - 4%

none of the above - 1%

Alex's definition of psyop -

Is TTSA a psyop?

No - 1%

Yes - 98%

none of the above - 1%
Love it :) but if proposition number two is true then does proposition number one even matter?
 

Alex

Administrator
#45
I’m so glad you got Richard Dolan on! He’s the best researcher/author in Ufology in my opinion. Glad he was able to get Alex to budge a little on the notion that TTSA is “just” a psyop... they have stomped on the toothepaste tube.

I recently moved to Austin where Hal Puthoff’s Earthtech is located. I wasn’t sure if I’d have to find a new job or if I could work remote, so I messaged Puthoff and Eric Davis on LinkedIn asking if they had need of an engineer. I wasn’t really expecting a response but they both responded kindly that they would like to hire engineers and lab techs but there’s no funding. They were hoping to secure some long term steady funding but it so far hasn’t materialized. Eric recently left Earthtech to pursue other opportunities.

So TTSA has accomplished a lot but still seem to be struggling for support.
thanks. Interesting
 

Alex

Administrator
#46
I know it's popular in certain circles to romanticize the noble savage, but, IMO, doing so is to indulge in extreme fantasy. The indigenous magic fails because their gods and power is all low level stuff. The primitives are simpletons and they align with/co-create simpleton "gods". They don't "live in harmony with nature", etc, etc because they are wise and gentle. They do so because they are too stupid to accomplish what they would if they could. They are closer to animals than creative adventuresome humans; spending their entire lives doing things they way they have always been done in the same little patch of jungle they have lived in from time immemorial. They war and kill, take slaves, damage the environment, etc. They just do it on a less grand scale because they are not smart enough to figure out how to do it bigger. It's not a matter of moral superiority.
I think this is a over the top, but there's a part of it that I think is all too often left out of the conversation and needs to be explored. the claim about simpleton gods is going to be offensive to many but this is been the claim of many who explore the extended Consciousness Realm. does it mean that they're right but doesn't mean that they're wrong either. Richard smoley comes to mind in terms of a researcherit shows that the most ancient pre-jewish text say almost exactly this.

As for aliens, not saying this is what it is; just something that an open minded skeptic must consider - the UFOs are US military special weapons R&D
wow... this position requires a complete reimagining of the data... I just can't get there.


The only expanded consciousness phenomena we can be certain are real - at least some times - are precognition, OBEs, NDEs, Life after death/ADCs and psi (and probably reincarnation). There's way too much noise and confusion around all the rest; along with viable very normal explanations.
I don't understand how intend to Hold the Line you've drawn in the sand.
 
#48
I nearly turned this podcast off - which would have been a big mistake - because the early discussion seemed just too "inside baseball". Alex, I do think it is important to make it clear who everyone is in such a discussion.

Unusually, Richard Dolan seemed to be genuinely struggling with the complexity of the issues.

It was interesting to hear him struggling with his own experience when his father died. I know nothing special happened at the moment when my father or mother died. It is hard to believe that what happened could become sort of fluke because of the tight association in time.

I must try out his podcasts.

David
He has some good podcast shows. I recommend the two conversations between him and Mike Clelland. Though I don’t remember if that was his podcast or Clelland’s that those shows were on. Dolan also puts out some good stuff on his YouTube channel.
 
#49
He has some good podcast shows. I recommend the two conversations between him and Mike Clelland. Though I don’t remember if that was his podcast or Clelland’s that those shows were on. Dolan also puts out some good stuff on his YouTube channel.
How much of that is free - I am not over keen on giving out my credit card details to someone whose security might not be perfect.

David
 
#51
How much of that is free - I am not over keen on giving out my credit card details to someone whose security might not be perfect.

David
Although when one wants to chip in to a Podcaster, or Youtuber etc, it’s almost always done via an intermediary payment method, like Patreon or PayPal or something.
 
#52
I know it's popular in certain circles to romanticize the noble savage, but, IMO, doing so is to indulge in extreme fantasy. The indigenous magic fails because their gods and power is all low level stuff. The primitives are simpletons and they align with/co-create simpleton "gods". They don't "live in harmony with nature", etc, etc because they are wise and gentle. They do so because they are too stupid to accomplish what they would if they could. They are closer to animals than creative adventuresome humans; spending their entire lives doing things they way they have always been done in the same little patch of jungle they have lived in from time immemorial. They war and kill, take slaves, damage the environment, etc. They just do it on a less grand scale because they are not smart enough to figure out how to do it bigger. It's not a matter of moral superiority.

As for aliens, not saying this is what it is; just something that an open minded skeptic must consider - the UFOs are US military special weapons R&D...... So what if a certain team developed the technological ability to project an image (maybe like a holograph) that fighter pilots would see and chase like a cat on a laser pointer and simultaneously could hack radar systems, etc such that it would appear as if the image was a material object being tracked by all of that tech? The best way to test its effects would be to keep it totally secret and then see what happens when applied to our own personnel and technology. That way the effects could be studied in depth. This would be a powerful weapon in the event of a real war. Some of the reported psychological effects are just typical PTSD from mind-blown/paradigm shifted syndrome as opposed to aliens intelligences deliberately altering perceptions. Also, better to let people believe in real UFOs than to reveal the secret weapons program once the weapons system has been tested and the testing has leaked out. I mean what else are you going to do?

So called "alien abductions" are probably a whole different class of event(s); a bucket containing a lot of slop like hypnogogic imagery, sleep paralysis, misinterpretation of real OBEs, epilepsy, effects of intoxication, schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder, outright lies and hoaxes, urban myths and so on and so forth. At least these explanations deserve serious consideration.

The only expanded consciousness phenomena we can be certain are real - at least some times - are precognition, OBEs, NDEs, Life after death/ADCs and psi (and probably reincarnation). There's way too much noise and confusion around all the rest; along with viable very normal explanations.
I think it’s a bit silly to proclaim that one culture is this or that over another regarding some of these issues. You’re looking at things with a huge modern/recent history bias. Human history, which is appearing older and older as new discoveries are unearthed, seems to date back anywhere from 250,000 to 700,000+ plus years old.

If we accept the modern scientific view of humanity, mankind all lived and believed very similarly all across the globe for 98 percent of our existence, until technologies really started to make a difference around 8,000 years ago, or whenever you want to say. I think that the discovery and implantation of technologies was a lot more chance and snowball effect than the actual result of any sort of superiority status between cultures. And if we actually take seriously the work of guys like Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson (and I think we should), it doesn’t seem implausible that the more technologically advanced civilizations of the world dating 100,000 years plus back were not found in Europe, but in the America’s until a cataclysmic event hit the “reset” button. But then again, maybe you’re okay with that and just meant to focus on the more modern happenings.

As far as spirituality is concerned, we currently reside in a culture where spiritual beliefs of any sort are openly mocked, particularly in the higher institutions and with the “gatekeepers of knowledge.” It seems to me that we’ve gone completely backwards in the spiritual department and are quite possibly the dumbest spiritual society that has ever existed.

I get where you’re coming from to a degree. It’s become fashionable to bash ourselves while holding others higher. But in your attempt to combat this idea, your writings on the topic come across to me as being equally extreme in the opposite direction, and equally fallible.
 
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#53
I think it’s a bit silly to proclaim that one culture is this or that over another regarding some of these issues. You’re looking at things with a huge modern/recent history bias. Human history, which is appearing older and older as new discoveries are unearthed, seems to date back anywhere from 250,000 to 700,000+ plus years old.
All over the world people want what we developed and now have, materially. I think it's a bit silly and arrogant to tell billions of people that they're wrong and misguided; especially when it's coming from someone who has

If we accept the modern scientific view of humanity, mankind all lived and believed very similarly all across the globe for 98 percent of our existence, until technologies really started to make a difference around 8,000 years ago, or whenever you want to say. I think that the discovery and implantation of technologies was a lot more chance and snowball effect than the actual result of any sort of superiority status between cultures. And if we actually take seriously the work of guys like Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson (and I think we should), it doesn’t seem implausible that the more technologically advanced civilizations of the world dating 100,000 years plus back were not found in Europe, but in the America’s until a cataclysmic event hit the “reset” button. But then again, maybe you’re okay with that and just meant to focus on the more modern happenings.
I'm not seeking to establish a foundation for racism or anything like that. It looks to me like that is concern you have.

As far as spirituality is concerned, we currently reside in a culture where spiritual beliefs of any sort are openly mocked, particularly in the higher institutions and with the “gatekeepers of knowledge.” It seems to me that we’ve gone completely backwards in the spiritual department and are quite possibly the dumbest spiritual society that has ever existed.
Yet polls consistently show that most people in modern western cultures are indeed "spiritual". They believe in all kinds of paranormal phenomena. More importantly, the Christian values of peace, love, understanding and forgiveness are so tightly woven into the fabric of our society that people just take them for granted. I call that a spiritual success.

I get where you’re coming from to a degree. It’s become fashionable to bash ourselves while holding others higher. But in your attempt to combat this idea, your writings on the topic come across to me as being equally extreme in the opposite direction, and equally fallible.
I think you are making the common mistake of greatly under-estimating the pain and brutality of pre-modern life. It is hard to be "spiritual" and focused on the best in life when you are diseased, hungry, cold and threatened by people that want to take your head - or when you are the head taker and your prayers are to the gods of war to give you the personal power to kill your enemies. Or when you are a woman that can be stoned to death or have her nose cut off for expressing yourself.
 
#54
I think this is a over the top, but there's a part of it that I think is all too often left out of the conversation and needs to be explored. the claim about simpleton gods is going to be offensive to many but this is been the claim of many who explore the extended Consciousness Realm. does it mean that they're right but doesn't mean that they're wrong either. Richard smoley comes to mind in terms of a researcherit shows that the most ancient pre-jewish text say almost exactly this.
Look, if you worship an angry, thirsty god that demands you rip out the still beating hearts of people you captured in war perennially waged for no other reason than to obtain hearts and blood for said angry god, then you are not exactly operating in a model that allows for freedom and invention. Ditto a god that demands you stone women to death for showing a little leg or dancing. Ditto a system that justifies people being relegated to a caste that they and their offspring can't break out of and wherein no one listens to what they think and say. And on and on.

I don't see why this is over-the-top or controversial beyond the fact that western society is increasingly populated by self-flagellating ball-less sissies and marxist school marmish harpy overlords that want to control every thought anyone might have and demand that everything and everyone be considered equal.

The Bible had an angry, jealous, bellicose god. Then they changed it. God had a son that came down to announce a new covenant with humans based on peace, love, forgiveness and freedom. Within that model people can explore, invent, focus on improving life, building. Yes yes yes, it wasn't and isn't perfect and some evil people distorted the message. Such is humanity. But it's the trend that counts - and the trend has been onward and upward within that system. I'm not a practicing christian, but I sure don't overlook the massive benefits of that systems values. Jesus got killed for this message as did many of his early followers. Primitive cultures, with smaller numbers of people where everyone is up in everyone else's business make it very difficult for anyone to proclaim that the gods are wrong and to change the system. Such a person is exiled (which usually = death) or is outright killed and that's the end of the revolution. The outmoded system continues.

We are creating these gods out of the energies at large and within us. Which energies you focus on are up to you. Think of the chakras. You can focus on the lower chakras or the higher ones. I find this to be an indisputable fact that is obscured by political oppression/PC.
 
B

Baccarat

#55
Random post but hope everyone is doing well. I was in a pissed off spot the last year or so due to how things are on this planet, but came here to apologize to anyone I offended before. And keep up the good work fellas and ladies!
 
#56
That's the thing I like about Dolan. He has a skeptical kind of mind. It seems to me evident that the whole ET/UFO thing is complex and maddeningly indefinable in any simple way. Dolan seems to get that, but sees some things as definite in terms of human response. I just finished Strieber's A New World - a challenging work - and I have just started Dolan's AD After Disclosure. Over the past week I watched the 1951 movie The Day The Earth Stood Still, and the 2008 remake.

In all this I am mindful of Dr Urban's reflection on the nature of religion in his book Scientology. His summation at the end is provocative - justly demanding we rethink what religion means to us an idea. Urban's 'hermeneutics of respect and hermeneutics of suspicion' strikes me as something Dolan would get - allowing something to be what it appears to be while doubting that is its true nature. I can't think of a better way approaching the whole UFO/ET theme. That is to say that there is utility in appearances [as they are to each of us], but none are an expression of the 'true nature'.

You remarked at the end that the toothpaste image struck you as important. Yeah. We can't unknow - there is no going back. ET won't cease to be the critical challenge to our normal - but he/she/it/they may transform into something else. Before harsh Christian theology napalmed our nature inner ecology humans engaged with a wide array of agents who possessed no essential physical form. So we do have to ask ourselves whether UFOs and ET represent the metaphorical expression of then old agents attended to an industrially conditioned mentality.

So of course the Military Industrial Complex plays with alien tech. We are in an age of what esotericists call 'Externalisation' - so the tech is no longer the magic of old. Now its the liminal expression of tech that straddles the material/immaterial boundary. As we need to redefine religion we also need to redefine magic.

Following this thread I am intrigued by the Disclosure narrative. In the distant past nobody would have presumed to demand the culture leaders 'disclose' their communion with gods. Two things were expected - we humans engaged with the invisible realms, and that our leaders would be in contact with them.

What we face is a struggle stemming from the materialist presumption that this contact is now anomalous, and hence threatening. The Day the Earth Stood Still movies reflect the shift of our sense of defence from spiritual to material. Hence the response to ET's arrival is dominated by the military - utterly unqualified, gross and idiotic reactions. The movie/s have a weak premise in an effort to drive a gross moral message. This is the point - the message is moral.

I am keen to explore Dolan's thinking more. I like the fact that he is an historian and brings that academic discipline to asking questions. But I see that approach has limitations and he is really another brand of toothpaste that can't be put back. I guess that's my point - the toothpaste is of many types and they are still all toothpaste.

Love it! Great show to the very end.
****
oh god (I think to myself in a revelation of horror) "the military complex". omg... if they have this...they will use it to their ends. "Take your head around the world, see what you get, see who's your friend & who is kind".
 
#57
Random post but hope everyone is doing well. I was in a pissed off spot the last year or so due to how things are on this planet, but came here to apologize to anyone I offended before. And keep up the good work fellas and ladies!
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I hope things are better for you in 2020. I don't think anyone holds a grudge or carries on when people disagree. At least I hope not... for my "victims" sakes. If they do I say "get over it". But, what a nice thought (you're one of the good people).
 
#58
I’m so glad you got Richard Dolan on! He’s the best researcher/author in Ufology in my opinion. Glad he was able to get Alex to budge a little on the notion that TTSA is “just” a psyop... they have stomped on the toothepaste tube.

I recently moved to Austin where Hal Puthoff’s Earthtech is located. I wasn’t sure if I’d have to find a new job or if I could work remote, so I messaged Puthoff and Eric Davis on LinkedIn asking if they had need of an engineer. I wasn’t really expecting a response but they both responded kindly that they would like to hire engineers and lab techs but there’s no funding. They were hoping to secure some long term steady funding but it so far hasn’t materialized. Eric recently left Earthtech to pursue other opportunities.

So TTSA has accomplished a lot but still seem to be struggling for support.
***
Do you know why TTSA is "struggling"? Look at their background. DeLong's. Listen to Joe Rogan interview DeLong. Delong blew it. They are just selling T-shirts. Nobody believes any of it after Rogan interviewed him. And the "tic/tac" so what? It shows nothing, means nothing. A lot of yippppeeeee over what?
 
#59
Great show. I’ve seen them, broad daylight, middle of the afternoon, Miami, Florida heading towards Biscayne Bay, in the mid-1960s and VERY close. I was about 9 years old (I’ve told the whole thing on this webpage before). I haven’t heard Mr.Dolan before, but he is pretty spot on. I get the comparison to the dog food & I think he is right.

The sighting & telepathy I had with them years ago I came away with they don’t like us. But, in reviewing it, Mr. Dolan might be right, they are in a way like us, we prejudge people, some of us are nice some are not. I think they are also like us in that.

This is what I’m thinking now... the eventual evolution of man has to be with machines. We have Elon with “neural link”. Everyone has a cell phone in their hand, it might as well be super-glued to them now. Some people are ready now (esp. the millennials) to hook up with the “Borg”. But, those of us not too keen to be tied to every nut who walks loose will hold that back.

What I saw, was 3 beings. 2 seemed to be sitting (but I actually didn’t see the chair) maybe they are shorter. But, to me, they seemed to be in front driving the craft. The taller one was behind them, he seemed to be in charge. When one of the little ones said (telepathically) “don’t be scared we won’t hurt you”, I was so relieved & thought (as a kid would) “OH, maybe we can be friends & I can ride in their spacecraft”?!

But, no, as soon as the little one “said” that, the tall one told it, “don’t bother, we are lower than dirt.” I was of course insulted and thought back “HEY! I’m not bad.” He slowly turned that ugly mug towards me (because by now he was between our house & the neighbors). *shiver, I just crouched down next to my moms legs behind her skirt, to hide.

But, you see, that one (in charge) was able to turn off the little one's thoughts just like a light switch. Immediately. So, now I’m thinking they could be us in the future (or an advanced life form) that already has gone through an evolution. They might have made those little ones as workers. Like them, but they can command them & they obey. Maybe they are part of them, part robot.

Now, this might be a bit far fetched but what if these things came here when we were monkeys (if you believe in evolution) what if they monkeyed with our brains & tried to make us into their worker slaves. But, somehow... something or someone (higher being) said “Ah hell no” and we became uncontrollable. We became more self-aware. We no longer were good slaves, we started to think for ourselves (the natural evolution of man). So, they bugged out & left us here.

Maybe they have come back to check on what they’ve done? I’m pretty sure they are not “angels” & “demons” like we were taught in Sunday School.

And, Mr. Dolan is so very right when he says, there is pure evil in man & lovely things as well. But, don’t kid yourself, some people are pure evil. Their very beings/souls once dead should be thrown into the sun. Some people are just so bad, there is no redemption. No need for eternal hell. Just make them gone.

I’d like to be God just for one day.
 
#60
Thank you, Alex. Your reply leaves me unconvinced, as a Ph.D. versed in the need for acquiring convincing evidence for hypotheses. That an idea is "widely reported" in "UFO circles" is far from authoritative. As for "recent developments in genetic science," can you please point me to them? P.S. I am not a close-minded sceptic, but rather a rigorous researcher.
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Ouch Lonevoice, I think I can answer this one. It is "widely reported" in UFO circles (and more circles) that we are being "changed". I mean evolution from monkey to todays man. Somebody tweaking the noodle has been brought up. Of course, you will say it is the natural evolution of man. BUT, we have kind of moved forward pretty fast... plenty of people are saying we are being given information or advancements from outside this world. Captured crafts & the military using things like remote viewing or things they got from those crafts. We can't prove it here.

I'm not into genetics but I did hear something about people messing around w/genetics. hum, not sure how far to go with this, but I have 2 IVF grown children. One was frozen for 5 years. There was some monkeying around with the embryos but that is all I'm going to say. And yes, both are extremely successful. One beyond what I could have ever dreamed. Could just be the luck of the draw.. but I know others that it was a little more than just "the luck".

I tried to post a photo of the embryo from 1989 for you to see but it won't attach.
 
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