Richard Smoley, Does Magic Work? |495|

[Alex]

Richard Smoley, Does Magic Work? |495|
by Alex Tsakiris | Apr 6 | Spirituality
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Richard Smoley is a respect religious scholar who thinks magic is real.

 

[David Bailey]

I liked that podcast, but I think this lecture by him is useful to understand where he comes from.

David

 

[Ted]

My question/statement in general is;
Is it really necessary to out-source evil.
Could it not be contributed to human stupid-ness and ignorance.
Nazis weren't so smart given the end result.
Ted bundy, was that a positive outcome?
In so far as a Evil force, that could be said for any sustained human mental focus (thought beings) ..that energy has got to go somewhere, we know it doesn't just disappear, or do we?

 

[malf]

With respect to all experiments needing an asterisk applied due to the unknown effect that consciousness might play, this is likely to be zero to negligible. At least so small as to have no meaningful impact on the various disciplines of engineering (e.g. chemical, material, structural, electrical, mechanical, software and genetic).

 

[David Bailey]

With respect to all experiments needing an asterisk applied due to the unknown effect that consciousness might play, this is likely to be zero to negligible. At least so small as to have no meaningful impact on the various disciplines of engineering (e.g. chemical, material, structural, electrical, mechanical, software and genetic).

Evidence?

David

 

[Ted]

With respect to all experiments needing an asterisk applied due to the unknown effect that consciousness might play, this is likely to be zero to negligible. At least so small as to have no meaningful impact on the various disciplines of engineering (e.g. chemical, material, structural, electrical, mechanical, software and genetic).

If consciousness is the base assumption and what you say is true then the question becomes why is it so.
In other words , where does the stability come from. Why does not consciousness destabilize the system. After all we are far from stable.
We say the basic laws are magic making (they exist as facts without source explanation, they are)..but, modify
except for consciousness which becomes the only magic..it is.

 

[Kim]

My question/statement in general is;
Is it really necessary to out-source evil.
Could it not be contributed to human stupid-ness and ignorance.
Nazis weren't so smart given the end result.
Ted bundy, was that a positive outcome?
In so far as a Evil force, that could be said for any sustained human mental focus (thought beings) ..that energy has got to go somewhere, we know it doesn't just disappear, or do we?

What is fascinating about the subject of magic is its interwoven presence in so many areas. The Bible account says J.C. walked on water b/c people have to see miracles to believe. Humanity made a shift from seeing most everything as supernaturally influenced or caused to the other extreme. A living universe swayed into a dead one.
My focus right now brings me back to who I really am. That for some reason or other, taking a mortal experience required me to be unaware of what I was capable of. Magic accesses what all of us can do by any number of methods, some of which can be quite costly to ourselves & others. Apparently, some systems of thought discourage magic b/c of the potential for havoc & bad karma.

 

[atone]

Richard Smoley, Does Magic Work? |495|
by Alex Tsakiris | Apr 6 | Spirituality
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Richard Smoley is a respect religious scholar who thinks magic is real.

Nice piece and interview, but the guys didn't spend that much time talking magic . Magic might work with you if you believe it but to say it can influence another is wishful thinking at best, no evidence. This guy makes claims about Magic in his book but has no real evidence that what he claims is true. Like the psychics , I email well know magicians that say they can conjure up a spirt or angel in their ceremonies. I say well if you do it all the time video tape it, and lets see these spirits ,or have someone use some ghost hunting sophisticated electronics to video tape it and do EVP's etc ....... at the same time and do some electromagnetic monitoring. Lets see the proof Sam !!! Not just some BS book you want to sell to beef up your bank account with ; all this is just hearsay, a wishful thinking book , maybe Harry Potter would fit in or the wicked witch of the west?

 

[Kim]

Sheesh, Atone. I wish I was as certain as this subject as you are. I think magic is that area of "supernormal abilities" that various mystics & sages warn us about. Li Hongzhi says that using supernormal powers are forbidden for its disruptive influence among everyday people, i.e., common people. Those who do use them lose a lot of virtue (positive energy or white substance) while potentially incurring karma. I think that's part of the influence that leads to that saying of Richard's: magicians aren't all old; they just look that way. (paraphrased). In the same general area, Li forbids his devotees from doing healing work b/c of the potential for healing someone at the expense of taking on their karma or black substance. I agree w/ you that more discussion of magic would have been nice, but then who would have bought his book if he told all?

 

[atone]

Sheesh, Atone. I wish I was as certain as this subject as you are. I think magic is that area of "supernormal abilities" that various mystics & sages warn us about. Li Hongzhi says that using supernormal powers are forbidden for its disruptive influence among everyday people, i.e., common people. Those who do use them lose a lot of virtue (positive energy or white substance) while potentially incurring karma. I think that's part of the influence that leads to that saying of Richard's: magicians aren't all old; they just look that way. (paraphrased). In the same general area, Li forbids his devotees from doing healing work b/c of the potential for healing someone at the expense of taking on their karma or black substance. I agree w/ you that more discussion of magic would have been nice, but then who would have bought his book if he told all?

Great points my sister ; though technically speaking ,practicing any type of theology could be considered magic. People who do black magic or magic in general are lost insecure people ,with head issues , possibly caused by the they were raised or if say they were bullied in life. I don't have issue with magic as long as no blood letting or the blood sacrifice sick shit is involved , or any abuse of kids or people. This asshole Alister Crowley is a perfect example of this and the Morons that follow any type of his teachings, To be honest if someone would have dusted his ass out, I think
this would have saved people life's and many animals who were around him . He's an absolute POS! Anyway, this joker Alex interviewed is a clown!

He gives no real evidence of magic working against another individual in a good or bad way. It all come down if you yourself believe in it. I agree who would waste their money on a book like that? With that said, lots of dumbasses in America , look who is president ! Maybe Biden was a black magic spell?

 

[Wanderer Awakening]

Richard Smoley, Does Magic Work? |495|
by Alex Tsakiris | Apr 6 | Spirituality
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Richard Smoley is a respect religious scholar who thinks magic is real.

If you're going to bring up social engineering by the CIA, and cults, and MK Ultra, while talking to Richard Smoley, I think you should include a discussion of ACIM A Course In Miracles, which looks like an MK Ultra CIA social engineering mind control project to me, and Smoley is an advocate of ACIM.

Mind Control: A COURSE IN MIRACLES - A CIA/UNITY CHURCH THOUGHT MANIPULATION DEVICE - The Constantine Report

 

[Ted]

I'll try one definition of Magic:
Something which can not be explained using our intellect/rationality. Or a base assumption at which point no more can be deduced. In other words, something which can't be parceled up, it's a given.
I'd make the claim that all belief systems will have these, including scientific.
I know I am leaving myself wide open.. never the less.

 

[ShaneTheThinker]

With respect to all experiments needing an asterisk applied due to the unknown effect that consciousness might play, this is likely to be zero to negligible. At least so small as to have no meaningful impact on the various disciplines of engineering (e.g. chemical, material, structural, electrical, mechanical, software and genetic).

I get what you are saying, but truthfully, none of the experiments can take place without conscious people doing them. Inevitably, consciousness is tied to all the experiments by the nature of what an experiment needs to take place.....consciousness.

 

[ShaneTheThinker]

I'll try one definition of Magic:
Something which can not be explained using our intellect/rationality. Or a base assumption at which point no more can be deduced. In other words, something which can't be parceled up, it's a given.
I'd make the claim that all belief systems will have these, including scientific.
I know I am leaving myself wide open.. never the less.

I respect your attempt to define magic. I didn't think that you left yourself wide open, and if anybody makes you feel that way, then they are obviously not magical people. Magic is many things in many ways. One aspect of magic is the knowledge of how things will become though it may seem impossible given the current circumstances. Also, any "intellect" or "rationality" that cannot fathom uncertainty is for one, not only lacking magical properties, but also far from scientific. Science was born out of the thirst for uncertainty, not the quenching of it. Furthermore, all the true magus are originally scientists in the most phenomenal manner!

 

[ShaneTheThinker]

Great points my sister ; though technically speaking ,practicing any type of theology could be considered magic. People who do black magic or magic in general are lost insecure people ,with head issues , possibly caused by the they were raised or if say they were bullied in life. I don't have issue with magic as long as no blood letting or the blood sacrifice sick shit is involved , or any abuse of kids or people. This asshole Alister Crowley is a perfect example of this and the Morons that follow any type of his teachings, To be honest if someone would have dusted his ass out, I think
this would have saved people life's and many animals who were around him . He's an absolute POS! Anyway, this joker Alex interviewed is a clown!

He gives no real evidence of magic working against another individual in a good or bad way. It all come down if you yourself believe in it. I agree who would waste their money on a book like that? With that said, lots of dumbasses in America , look who is president ! Maybe Biden was a black magic spell?

Atone, you have a nice "pro wrestling" aspect to this forum. Also, did you know that Kim is a brother, not a sister?

 

[Alex]

Is it really necessary to out-source evil.

I think I get your point but remember that we live in a science center world that doesn't believe it is possible to outsource evil. I would suggest that this level of professed ignorance/deception is not accidental.

 

[Alex]

What is fascinating about the subject of magic is its interwoven presence in so many areas. The Bible account says J.C. walked on water b/c people have to see miracles to believe. Humanity made a shift from seeing most everything as supernaturally influenced or caused to the other extreme. A living universe swayed into a dead one.
My focus right now brings me back to who I really am. That for some reason or other, taking a mortal experience required me to be unaware of what I was capable of. Magic accesses what all of us can do by any number of methods, some of which can be quite costly to ourselves & others. Apparently, some systems of thought discourage magic b/c of the potential for havoc & bad karma.

nice. thx.

John 4:48 Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will not believe.”

 

[1-2 Steps off Monkey]

Atone, you have a nice "pro wrestling" aspect to this forum. Also, did you know that Kim is a brother, not a sister?

oh no are you sure?

 

[1-2 Steps off Monkey]

about Kim

 

[Alex]

If you're going to bring up social engineering by the CIA, and cults, and MK Ultra, while talking to Richard Smoley, I think you should include a discussion of ACIM A Course In Miracles, which looks like an MK Ultra CIA social engineering mind control project to me, and Smoley is an advocate of ACIM.

Mind Control: A COURSE IN MIRACLES - A CIA/UNITY CHURCH THOUGHT MANIPULATION DEVICE - The Constantine Report

good point! I poked into the acim stuff a few years ago with
Robert Perry on the Science of Synchronicity ... - Skeptiko

he seems like a really good and honest guy despite being up to his eyeballs with acim.

I also thought this interview was interesting
Robert Forte, The Softer Side of CIA Psychedelic Mind Control ...

Alex Tsakiris: I really want to understand how you’re juggling these two things, because what I hear from Wasson is this both and kind of thing. Yeah, he’s a lying ass, CIA lifetime player, yes, but I also get the sense that he’s someone who either before, during or after, has woken up to the larger reality that he’s stumbled into or that he’s been pushed into.

Robert Forte: Well, I’m glad you put it that way because I’m still kind of… when I think back to my meetings with Wasson, he had a very peculiar personality around me. I think there was some genuine affection and respect for me as a young man, who really wanted to understand what was going on. You know, I don’t really know, I’d really love to go back into his archives and read more of his letters.

I gave a lecture in New York shortly after my realization of his relationship to the American fascists and then my access to the archives was denied.

===

I'd love to dive back into this topic if you'd be willing to help set up an interview.