Richard Syrett interviewed me about: Why Evil Matters

Alex

Administrator
#1
421 Consciousness, and Good vs. Evil

EPISODE #421 CONSCIOUSNESS AND GOOD VS. EVIL

Richard welcomes an author and podcaster to discuss the science of consciousness and why science use quotes around “evil”? Why do we settle for religious answers? And if evil is around us, and maybe within us, what can we do about it?

Guest: Alex Tsakiris is a successful entrepreneur-turned-science-podcaster. In 2007 Alex launched Skeptiko, which has become the #1 podcast covering the science of human consciousness. He has appeared on many popular syndicated radio talk shows and podcasts and is well-known within the parapsychology and near-death experience research communities.

He is the author of Why Evil Matters: How Science and Religion Fumble a Big One.
 
#2
That was a good talk, and Richard seemed to get the probably psychic connection to evil.

I am very glad Skeptiko doesn't come with a side of commercials. It was quite disconcerting to jump from a discussion about evil to assorted alternative medicines. I wonder who thought of consuming carbon60 (buckyballs) for better health?

Alex, you mentioned the idea that evil may be an inevitable consequence of good - maybe that needs exploring more.

David
 

Alex

Administrator
#3
That was a good talk, and Richard seemed to get the probably psychic connection to evil.

I am very glad Skeptiko doesn't come with a side of commercials. It was quite disconcerting to jump from a discussion about evil to assorted alternative medicines. I wonder who thought of consuming carbon60 (buckyballs) for better health?

Alex, you mentioned the idea that evil may be an inevitable consequence of good - maybe that needs exploring more.

David
yeah I don't think I said this very well... what I was trying to get at is that if we accept that consciousness is fundamental... then it seems to me we have only two choices when it comes to the consciousness hierarchy question, and since the evidence seems to point towards the hierarchy then it's all good :)
 
#4
yeah I don't think I said this very well... what I was trying to get at is that if we accept that consciousness is fundamental... then it seems to me we have only two choices when it comes to the consciousness hierarchy question, and since the evidence seems to point towards the hierarchy then it's all good :)
You are really moving along fast... well, too fast for me to keep up with. BUT, Keep up I must!

I appreciated this interview, as I came the closest yet to understanding what you've been working toward... it's like, you have your opinion on good and evil but you either don't want to come right out and say it OR, you want to see if a guest will nail it... but also, I could be guessing wrong and you are not yet at that "mind made up" place. In addition, the Skeptiko way is to always hold on to some doubt.

Anyways, I felt I got the best glimpse yet as to where you are at with this question.

But also, the post I quoted clarifies even further.

Where I am hung a bit is when you say, "evil is a lens to..." and I just don't get the analogy of "lens."

Anyways, I wanted to make the above comments (and put more thought into forming the words) but you are going so fast I just can't keep up! I haven't even been able to get to the Charlie Morely #455 yet. And worse, Dr. Zinser's primary book (not the two workbooks) has still not arrived! Urrrggghhh. Meanwhile the world is imploding.
 
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Alex

Administrator
#5
You are really moving along fast... well, too fast for me to keep up with. BUT, Keep up I must!

I appreciated this interview, as I can the closest yet to understanding what you've been working toward... it's like, you have your opinion on good and evil but you either don't want to come right out and say it OR, you want to see if a guest will nail it... but also, I could be guessing wrong and you are not yet at that "mind made up" place. In addition, the Skeptiko way is to always hold on to some doubt.

Anyways, I felt I got the best glimpse yet as to where you are at with this question.

But also, the post I quoted clarifies even further.

Where I am hung a bit is when you say, "evil is a lens to..." and I just don't get the analogy of "lens."

Anyways, I wanted to make the above comments (and put more thought into forming the words) but you are going so fast I just can't keep up! I haven't even been able to get to the Charlie Morely #455 yet. And worse, Dr. Zinser's primary book (not the two workbooks) has still not arrived! Urrrggghhh. Meanwhile the world is imploding.
haha. Yeah I've kind of gotten a little carried away with interviews lately... and I have a bunch more already recorded... and some of them are really long. so there's probably going to be more content anyone can really listen to. then again, holding back doesn't seem right either.

I really enjoyed having this conversation with Richard... that wasn't exactly sure where it would go. he is a Greek Orthodox background even though I've moved away from that cultish tradition I still resonate with folks who find genuine spirituality in it... so I guess we got to places that I normally don't go :) what did you find most interesting as it relates to things you're thinking about?
 
#6
haha. Yeah I've kind of gotten a little carried away with interviews lately... and I have a bunch more already recorded... and some of them are really long. so there's probably going to be more content anyone can really listen to. then again, holding back doesn't seem right either.

I really enjoyed having this conversation with Richard... that wasn't exactly sure where it would go. he is a Greek Orthodox background even though I've moved away from that cultish tradition I still resonate with folks who find genuine spirituality in it... so I guess we got to places that I normally don't go :) what did you find most interesting as it relates to things you're thinking about?
Every day I take a long walk. Each time I bring with me a podcast and strive to complete as much of the listening as I can before returning home. Your Skeptiko's Alex, are my number one priority. What got me a little behind is the two interviews you did with other podcasters (fascinating in that you reveal things about where you are at (and your deeper views) I haven't seen when you do a Skeptiko).

I have said it before, but its true and, in fact, more 'truer,' especially since you began this deep dive on "good and evil" - Skeptiko has had the single most profound impact on my personal growth experience than every other source of information presentation I have ever come upon. That you share your journey with us so freely (meaning you don't hold back from Being Alex as Alex is and becomes) is such a great gift. Thank you. Don't stop... don't slow down!
 
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Alex

Administrator
#8
Every day I take a long walk. Each time I bring with me a podcast and strive to complete as much of the listening as I can before returning home. Your Skeptiko's Alex, are my number one priority. What got me a little behind is the two interviews you did with other podcasters (fascinating in that you reveal things about where you are at (and your deeper views) I haven't seen when you do a Skeptiko).

I have said it before, but its true and, in fact, more 'truer,' especially since you began this deep dive on "good and evil" - Skeptiko has had the single most profound impact on my personal growth experience than ever other source of information presentation I have ever come upon. That you share your journey with us so freely (meaning you don't hold back from Being Alex as Alex is and becomes) is such a great gift. Thank you. Don't stop... don't slow down!
alright :) now I'm feeling pressure :)
 
#9
... so I guess we got to places that I normally don't go :) what did you find most interesting as it relates to things you're thinking about?
I just completed my walk and my third run through of the interview with your question in mind. Interestingly, this third run through rendered my post above as obsolete.

So here's what came through, but first, I now "get" the "evil is a lens" thing. Why now and not before? Interestingly, a real good night sleep and just the perfect amount of coffee and the all important component of "mind state" converged where I now have new clarity. In fact, I now understand far better than ever before why you get so amped up!

It all comes through at exactly this point of the interview - 36:55 when you (Alex) dive into your interview with Dr. Hugh Urban to extract a particular moment of disagreement as to what is actually most important. Emphasis on "most" - Yes, belief matters. Yes, beliefs may very well impact the forms of manifestation of the observed reality... but what has to be handled first (and I now get it... you mean, universally handled as in "settled" as in "settled science" but even more... settled with regards to what that means for religion too) - and that is the very thing you preceded this part of the discussion with - highlighted by the key sentence of the entire Wilbert Smith document referring to all things "UFO" - starting at 35:38 - "They believe that it's connected with mental phenomena."

And Alex's thing has been that which he (I believe) coined the term "extended consciousness" for the purpose of pointing to that which not only serves as a "word" (in this case two) representation of all conscious phenomena that resides beyond what Alex calls "ordinary consciousness / ordinary reality" but also serves to point to that which is an "open door" to that which provides the opportunity for "experimentation" with this (possible) extended reality and from there it can go in one of two generalized directions where in one case, it is towards a direction of personal and societal growth ("good"} and the other towards that which seems/feels/appears to be dangerously playing with "evil" (the experimentation void of ethics/morals, etc.) and... when those involved actualize intent, they emulate evil, they have essentially become evil. And the good may also be achieved via "experimentation" but that would be more like "personal reflectiveness" with a moral basis and a greater morality/ethics, etc as the primary goal perhaps. Maybe after all there may be a moral imperative hierarchy as representative of the greater reality.

Alex also highlighted (earlier in the interview) that in all the interviews he's done that could be seen as to touch upon extended reality, what seems to have emerged consistently is the appearance of a hierarchy... well, let me state my own conclusion... a hierarchy towards ultimate light (dare I type Light?) but to go there now (as far as Alex focusing upon this potential aspect of extended consciousness) seems premature as long as we haven't settled first and foremost the fact of extended consciousness. Because until that is accepted as worthy of deeper (scientific?) exploration while avoiding the pitfalls "religion" brings to the pursuit of understanding, we'll continue to have all these pathways that lead to that nexus in the center yet are forever barred from reaching the center by their various dogmas (scientific dogma just as powerful as any of the religious dogma).

I now conclude this is the key thing that gets Alex amped up the most and why I never saw it before is because I kept experiencing Alex getting amped up when one of the blocks appeared and I kept erroneously concluding his emotion was because of his internal affinity to that which could be assumed to be the "other side!" And now I see it... its all sides that stand as gatekeepers.

And finally, it is our structures which prop up the various "experts" "academia" "religious authorities" "philosophers" etc. who risk everything they've worked their life to achieve (Alex points to Dr. Urban as an example) if they go all the way (even if they are much closer to that nexus point within their own conscious heart/mind).
 
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Alex

Administrator
#10
I just completed my walk and my third run through of the interview with your question in mind. Interestingly, this third run through rendered my post above as obsolete.

So here's what came through, but first, I now "get" the "evil is a lens" thing. Why now and not before? Interestingly, a real good night sleep and just the perfect amount of coffee and the all important component of "mind state" converged where I now have new clarity. In fact, I now understand far better than ever before why you get so amped up!

It all comes through at exactly this point of the interview - 36:55 when you (Alex) dive into your interview with Dr. Hugh Urban to extract a particular moment of disagreement as to what is actually most important. Emphasis on "most" - Yes, belief matters. Yes, beliefs may very well impact the forms of manifestation of the observed reality... but what has to be handled first (and I now get it... you mean, universally handled as in "settled" as in "settled science" but even more... settled with regards to what that means for religion too) - and that is the very thing you preceded this part of the discussion with - highlighted by the key sentence of the entire Wilbert Smith document referring to all things "UFO" - starting at 35:38 - "They believe that it's connected with mental phenomena."

And Alex's thing has been that which he (I believe) coined the term "extended consciousness" for the purpose of pointing to that which not only serves as a "word" (in this case two) representation of all conscious phenomena that resides beyond what Alex calls "ordinary consciousness / ordinary reality" but also serves to point to that which is an "open door" to that which provides the opportunity for "experimentation" with this (possible) extended reality and from there it can go in one of two generalized directions where in one case, it is towards a direction of personal and societal growth ("good"} and the other towards that which seems/feels/appears to be dangerously playing with "evil" (the experimentation void of ethics/morals, etc.) and... when those involved actualize intent, they emulate evil, they have essentially become evil. And the good may also be achieved via "experimentation" but that would be more like "personal reflectiveness" with a moral basis and a greater morality/ethics, etc as the primary goal perhaps. Maybe after all there may be a moral imperative hierarchy as representative of the greater reality.

Alex also highlighted (earlier in the interview) that in all the interviews he's done that could be seen as to touch upon extended reality, what seems to have emerged consistently is the appearance of a hierarchy... well, let me state my own conclusion... a hierarchy towards ultimate light (dare I type Light?) but to go there now (as far as Alex focusing upon this potential aspect of extended consciousness) seems premature as long as we haven't settled first and foremost the fact of extended consciousness. Because until that is accepted as worthy of deeper (scientific?) exploration while avoiding the pitfalls "religion" brings to the pursuit of understanding, we'll continue to have all these pathways that lead to that nexus in the center yet are forever barred from reaching the center by their various dogmas (scientific dogma just as powerful as any of the religious dogma).

I now conclude this is the key thing that gets Alex amped up the most and why I never saw it before is because I kept experiencing Alex getting amped up when one of the blocks appeared and I kept erroneously concluding his emotion was because of his internal affinity to that which could be assumed to be the "other side!" And now I see it... its all sides that stand as gatekeepers.

And finally, it is our structures which prop up the various "experts" "academia" "religious authorities" "philosophers" etc. who risk everything they've worked their life to achieve (Alex points to Dr. Urban as an example) if they go all the way (even if they are much closer to that nexus point within their own conscious heart/mind).
wow... Thanks... I feel heard :)

the other thing I've come to realize in these awesome chats with people like richard is just how strange the role of dr. Hugh urban is. I mean, he's a really cool guy. he studies tantra with traditional practitioners in india... that smacks of someone who's a genuine seeker. so the fact that he's been bullied, coaxed and col collared into saying such ridiculous s*** as "it doesn't matter if it's true it only matters what they believe" is shocking. it's a disinformation campaign targeted against these extended consciousness realms by people who are clearly manipulating those realms for their own " evil" purposes.
 
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