Rick DeLano’s Terrific Quantum Science Film Tainted by Catholic Nonsense |454|

#81
It's a reasonable question.

My objection is not because I think religious beliefs should have special dispensation. Rather, people's personal faith is not usually amenable to rational argument. I mean, faith is an emotional (and of course spiritual) thing. You can't argue somebody out of it by firing facts at them.

It's like demanding someone explain why they love their partner even though by objective measures their partner might not have many lovable characteristics.

For this reason I think it's an unprofitable line to take.



With theologians and preachers etc, who are versed in apologetics, and for whom it's not so personal, I think you're more likely to get a decent argument.
I still think Rick was playing up his straw man argument objection b/c he knew all he had to offer was the Nicene Creed as a counter point. I'll take Alex's word for his assessment of the excellent job done on Rick's movie, but I detest any blatant attempt to push catholicism embedded in a questionable idea like the end of quantum reality. It has the same kind of stench to it as "Creationist Science," the most utterly disingenuous offal ever conceived.
 
#82
I didn't think it was pointless. I think the default position that a religious person isn't "developed enough" to have considered their own position is ridiculous.

I don't dismiss a Christian/Muslum/Jew/Buddist's intellect or intellectual development a priori.
If a person has exoteric beliefs apparently, I out of habit become very cautious about what I will discuss w/ them. Having lived in Texas most of my life, I was repeatedly exposed to the most intolerant and disgusting Christian dogmas, which led me to honestly suspect a lack of intelligence AND a lack of heart. Anyone, in my opinion, like Rick, who falls back on the Nicene Creed as his justification for promoting the nauseating slobber that is catholicism really must lack in wits and/or be damaged/controlled in some way. Like Kevin Annet said, look what the popes have done to Jesus's teachings: they twisted his message of love an replaced it w/ a hankering for death. Their crucifix symbol has a tortured corpse on it: that says it all.
 
#83
I have a sister -in-law who says she wants answers to the 4 Big Questions,
There are 5 big questions (according to Alan Watts):
  1. Who started it?
  2. Are we going to make it?
  3. Where are we going to put it?
  4. Who's going to clean up?
  5. Is it serious?

but since it involves some things that she thinks are boring or scary, then never mind.
Her dopamine reward system is not sufficiently biased towards the satisfaction of curiosity.

Sit quietly for 10 minutes w/ Ur eyes closed while watching Ur breath? Why?
To gain control over the locus of control at the center of the feedback loop that is the self becoming increasingly conscious of the self.

So, is that a lack of development or do I need to offer more choices?
I hear you... not much you can do for someone else except to develop yourself and then if they decide they want what you've got, then you can help them to get it. Otherwise, all you can do is listen and... que sera sera.

A system (religious or otherwise) can provide some things an individual can't.

We certainly don't need a new religion if U mean a esoteric form: the hideous religious leaches that bar clear and critical thinking today don't deserve another second of existence.
I mean maybe the same old esoteric truths need a mythic makeover.

Any system, religious, political, military, etc, provides a self-organizing structure that removes some of the burden of critical thinking from the individual, and also has an interest in perpetuating itself at the expense of the individual. Just as you would not sacrifice your whole body for the lives of a few of your cells, the systemic organism has little regard for the individuals, but in exchange offers the individuals the opportunity to become more than mere cells.

The mystics and enlightened ones coming out of religions are the Gametes going out to create something new while the other more boring cells have their function as well.

What we do need is a simple set of moral guides like George Carlin's Two Commandments and the Golden Rule plus stern laws punishing deviation from them. No, I don't want a theocratic police state, but a return to common law tenets that remove many of the legal abuses we suffer from today. I guess I'm talking Libertarianism.
I don't think it is possible to return. We can only evolve. There is no more frontier, which is why we need to colonize the Moon and Mars ASAP... humanity needs a frontier where libertarianism can exist and those who wish to escape the aging ossifying structures can do so... and then return to reinvent the aging ossifying structures into something better.

At the frontier there can exist a high trust society. But as societal structures are built, then less and less trust and integrity is required of the individual as it is replaced by the institutions.

Like the frontier, war used to provide the necessary service of busting up old structures and restoring the needs of individual integrity and trust, but we can no longer have wars because they'll too quickly get out of hand and blow us all up.

I can see that we face the same fate as the Native Americans and I can see there will be short term pain and long term inevitable transformation. It is inevitable that everyone will get the "Mark of the Beast" and be entered into the global financial system with the vaccine registration, and everything will become systematized. Whether this will take 2 years or 20 years, I don't know... Will there be a shrinking reservation system where we can opt out for as long as possible?

We need something like a new religion: a story explaining how everything fell apart and how we can put it all back together and offering hope that there is a hierarchy extending beyond one life that is interested in putting it back together. And then we need a global catastrophe to break up all the structures and let this new religion form the new organizing principle.

I do firmly believe what many new spiritual leaders, like Eben Alexander, M. D. promotes: we are already well into the shedding of civilization's old skin, as is evident in the USA's and other countries' turmoil, and being prepared for its new and better form.
The image of a snake shedding a thin layer of skin and becoming slightly larger is too gradual... its more like Resident Evil where society has been injected with the T-Virus (Tyrant Virus) and the organism is rapidly transmogrified into a beast.
 
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Alex

Administrator
#84
Right on, Alex. I don't want to make you sick of C. Hitchens, but he did make a strong case against the "special " status of one's religious beliefs. Why shouldn't people be held to the same standards of honesty, integrity, and the other virtuous habits in regard to their spiritual ideas? Why do they get a pass when they utter nonsense or promote hatred disguised as "my personal beliefs"? This is another area where shining a strong light on depravity or stupidity makes it run for cover or bare it's fangs.
love it!
 

Alex

Administrator
#85
Right on, Alex. I don't want to make you sick of C. Hitchens, but he did make a strong case against the "special " status of one's religious beliefs. Why shouldn't people be held to the same standards of honesty, integrity, and the other virtuous habits in regard to their spiritual ideas? Why do they get a pass when they utter nonsense or promote hatred disguised as "my personal beliefs"? This is another area where shining a strong light on depravity or stupidity makes it run for cover or bare it's fangs.
OMG... is this an original quote? brilliant!

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#87
I didn't think it was pointless. I think the default position that a religious person isn't "developed enough" to have considered their own position is ridiculous.

I don't dismiss a Christian/Muslum/Jew/Buddist's intellect or intellectual development a priori.
Maybe that you didn't "get it"... uhummm, is an example of...
 
#89
Nothing against the man, but I would say Alex is not a deep thinker when it comes to matters of Christ and this subject matter; maybe he should stay out of the argument if he can't give an intelligent argument against it. The Catholic Church glorifies Christ in high level magical ceremonies , like the Eucharist, and other Catholic ceremonies. It just like putting deep tasty icing on a cake. The cake is what Christ is about and the icing are all the ceremonies and hocuc pocus stuff in Catholicism . I love it myself. In fact, the Catholic Church is the original organized church of Christ. I admit it has changed a lot in a thousand plus years though, far from maybe what Jesus had taught, possibly - with confession etc ....

I can see if your not a believer, but if you have a site like this with all the outrageous assertions from guest claims of contacts with ghosts to reptile looking aliens that come an visit in their bedrooms , and the completely fake and fraudulent mediums who talk to the dead for hundred of dollars an hour to the "dupes" that go see them , and then have some knee jerk reaction -poorly done- kind of hit piece like this; well, maybe you should let it go. It looks like pure hypocrisy to me with all the insane claims on this site. Besides some people of science that come on, most have no evidence what so ever about their allegations of the super natural. Its complete hogwash fake and made up IMO!!!! Ask any serious university professor or expert of biblical history and studies - most by the way who are atheists - and they will tell you there's no question about the fact that Jesus walked the earth, preached throughout what is now Israel , and was crucified on the cross.

So lets see if Alex can get a person of this caliber on on go toe to toe with them. Also, Alex can you please tell us if you think Islam and the Hebrew religions are all fake too?

Mike :)
 
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#90
Well, I'm not looking to ignore what you say, your point is taken, and I realise it is sincerely intended.

However, think of it this way. What if someone has been to war, seen and experienced terrible things, then comes home, returns to civilian life. In such a situation, not everyone is the same, but many experience PTSD (Post-traumatic stress disorder). Dealing with the after-effects of trauma is not always easy. There are many types of therapy in order to heal the damage and restore a state of well-being - as best one can. There may be physical as well as psychological matters to deal with in that example.

In the case of reincarnation, there is sometimes a similar type of PTSD which needs to be dealt with.

Whether or not your proposed path is suitable in either of these PTSD scenarios is something I'll leave open.
How is it fact, please give your evidence.
 
#91
I think its a mix up of consciousnesses per say, maybe a person gets entangled with another dead person consciousness, like quantum entanglement . I do believe our souls are our consciousness that survives death ,and is put into almost dream state forever, but can remember back and materialize when they do though smell , Kinetic energy, or what some may call a spitit made of of electromagnetic energy. They also could live outside time and space as God does. They do this though Hiiggs Boson god particle . Read a book called Ghost Physics's, I believe the author has what happens in basics when you me we die.
 
#95
I think its a mix up of consciousnesses per say, maybe a person gets entangled with another dead person consciousness, like quantum entanglement . I do believe our souls are our consciousness that survives death ,and is put into almost dream state forever, but can remember back and materialize when they do though smell , Kinetic energy, or what some may call a spitit made of of electromagnetic energy. They also could live outside time and space as God does. They do this though Hiiggs Boson god particle . Read a book called Ghost Physics's, I believe the author has what happens in basics when you me we die.
That is your belief. How is it fact? Please give your evidence.
 
#96
That is your belief. How is it fact? Please give your evidence.
Well, physicist for one that are interviewed right on this web site ! I can give you more tomorrow, late here in Maryland. I didn't say that people don't have experiences. I do myself sometimes. Its just we are not born again into another body IMO like in a India religion. . I think we get entangled with other past consciousness sometime, like i was saying like in quantum entanglement, same thing. When we pass on that's it bucko!! lol Our consciousness survives death IMO, but we transition into another non body state, and that's the end of having a physical body ,so take care of the one you have, workout, eat right and make it last as long as possible. and give to charities were people have physical disabilities and cancer like children's hospitals. I do think we can -through- Higgs Boson transition back to matter, ,but more like a hologram image, what a ghost is by the way , a hologram of consciousness. Is that what happened with Jesus after death? I think so.
 
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#99
Mojo said: "Did you know that it was a Catholic Priest Physicist that came up with the theory and math of the big bang?"

I'm not too surprised by this. I mean, if you're going to concoct an idea it helps if you are a member of another concoction. I think the closest we may come to any idea that is factual about creation is what Albert Einstein said, "The Universe is an illusion." My belief is that we, as restless individual parts of an eternal Source of Consciousness desire to leave that state of bliss in which It resides to go off on our own from time to time for adventures. So here we are. Speaking maybe mainly for myself, I think many of us are glad to be allowed back "home" when our adventure ends at corporal death.
 
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Mojo said: "Did you know that it was a Catholic Priest Physicist that came up with the theory and math of the big bang?"

I'm not too surprised by this. I mean, if you're going to concoct an idea it helps if you are a member of another concoction. I think the closest we may come to any idea that is factual about creation is what Albert Einstein said, "The Universe is an illusion." My belief is that we, as restless individual parts of an eternal Source of Consciousness desire to leave that state of bliss in which It resides to go off on our own from time to time for adventures. So here we are. Speaking maybe mainly for myself, I think many of us are glad to be allowed back "home" when our adventure ends at corporal death.
I agree! by the way Einstein loved the theory of the big bang and agreed with it, one for the Catholics; the smart theology!!!! Consciousness = Energy , and energy = mass That's what a ghost or spirit is , when its conciseness renumbers back to a time in the past, or maybe wants to contact someone or have say another spiritual entity do it for them.
 
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