Robbie Graham Busts the UFO Paradigm |358|

#41
Bill Cooper predicted 911 three months before it happened. He was in the navy and saw UFOs flying into the water.The whole crew was silenced. Later someone put a large stack on his desk,where he worked for the navy briefing the head of the pacific fleet(or similar). He believed the files that had pictures of aliens and UFOs. I think he took twenty years to realize that information was fake. He had been used(and others) to spread disinfo that aliens exist. There is also video of from CSpan that the bill was passed for the provision of martial law if there is an alien attack,(that attack would be a used as false flag used just like 911). Bill Cooper was killed by government agents outside his house. Maybe you should have some respect for him. The UFOs are real but they are man made and the aliens are fake according to the late Bill Cooper. As for me I just view all ideas I want, Bill Cooper's idea seems plausible to me, it could be correct.
And what does any of this have to do with the podcast? Maybe you could read the book the podcast is about and comment on it rather than bringing up the rants of a someone as unrealiable as Bill Cooper.
 
#44
I've taken a look at some of the evidence you indicate. It seems to fall under the same kind of classification I've already granted is authentic: e.g. some person or a group of people observe something, provide reports, etc., even take photos/videos. There may even be photographic evidence of where a claimed UFO scorched the ground and what have you. I'm not doubting that such things can occur, but for me, they don't fall under what I'd class as "material" evidence as opposed to psychological evidence (reported experience) coupled with corroborating physical effects that can be photographed/videoed.

What would be much more convincing evidence would be actual alien artifacts of some kind, and/or incontrovertible evidence of aliens (e.g. their preserved dead bodies), which as far as I know aren't available. Now maybe this is because conspiracy theories about government cover-ups are true, and in fact such concrete evidence is kept in secret government vaults that maybe one day will be made available for inspection. But failing that, so far I'm sticking with psychospiritual events that have some kind of indirect physical correlates that may be real enough, but be psychically caused--the result of observer consciousness affecting matter in some way that isn't yet fully understood.
What I think is important is that UFOs follow the same basic rules that other anomalous phenomenon (ghosts, poltergeists, etc...) do. The possibility that they are completely internal phenomenon of consciousness (as David Halperin suggests) doesn't hold up because we do have things like anomalous photographs, apports, evps, fragments of crash debris, etc., although some experiences may be completely internally generated. The idea that they are internally generated experiences that can affect the physical environment via PK seems like a much safer bet, and it avoids the uncomfortable notion that we are not the only conscious entities affecting our environment.

I think we need to consider that third option, the one presented by Vallee, that while we might be part of what creates these experiences, we might also be interacting with other conscious entities.

The same problem presents itself in physical mediumship. Is the phenomenon of the seance room completely generated by the medium via PK and clairvoyance? Does it come from ghosts (or some other consciousness besides that of the medium)? Or does it require an interaction of conscious elements (the medium, sitters, ghosts, universal consciousness, etc)?
 
#45
What do UFO's have to do with consciousness?

There is the Psi aspect: telekinesis, telepathy, synchronicity, etc.
There is the altered states of consciousness aspect: lost time, memories only retrievable through hypnotic regression, similar experiences on DMT, etc.
There is the life transformative experience and trauma aspect.
Branching off the trauma aspect, questions arise around free will.
There is the sacred geometry and symbolism aspect: crop circles etc.
There is the mythological narrative aspect: alien/ufo phenomena share a large number of similarities with ancient mythical creatures, religious stories, and the Trickster.
There is the human narrative aspect: how does a UFO experiencer or abductee redefine and identify himself in relation to alien/races and how does humanity's history intertwine with theirs?
There is the optimistic government narrative aspect: thinkers and planners in government think tanks at the dawn of the nuclear age realized that sooner or later humanity would almost certainly destroy the world unless either A) a dramatic shift in collective consciousness takes place to enlighten everyone away from conflict (a possible reason experimental psychedelics were released on the population) or B) everyone is so afraid of or in awe of an external alien enemy that the whole world forgets its differences and unites against a common enemy. Some related government projects: Project Bluebird, Artichoke, MKULTRA, MKOFTEN, the Nine, etc.
There is the slightly more paranoid gnostic government narrative aspect: deep state planners are part of a reptilian vampiric archonic kakistocracy and breakaway civilization that seeks to maintain control over the sheeple by creating a new religion with aliens (demons in disguise) as their new gods while feeding off the negative psychic emotional energy of those in whom they induce trauma.

The pure nuts and bolts model (aliens similar to us from another planet have just recently arrived here in fancy stealthy ships and are now either plotting our demise or studying us as cosmic anthropologists) makes no sense. In such a scenario it is extremely unlikely we would happen to be alive at just the moment when aliens made first contact and we just happened to be at the technological development to understand what was happening. It is much more likely that either no aliens have traveled here or they are long gone now or they have been here a very long time.

Since physical travel across great distances is difficult, but mental travel (remote viewing, projection, etc) is relatively easy, it seems more likely that the aliens who could be interfering with us are doing so through mental means... What would remote viewing, or astral projection, or psychokinesis, or synchronicity crafting - on steroids - look like? Then the question is: why are we not bombarded with psychic influence if there are billions of master psychic aliens out there? Maybe it is another one of the universe's fortunate Goldilocks moments: natural psychic limitation is just great enough to permit a discovery of the greater reality, but just small enough to limit interaction to a few meaningful ones.
 
#47
I read a book on telekinesis that was from the 70s some time back in the 90s and the instructions consisted of looking at an object and wanting and willing it to move. That was it! So presumably if someone has this superpower you would want to know how it works right? Wrong. The people that supposedly have this ability don't know either. Hmmmmm
 
B

Baccarat

#48
I read a book on telekinesis that was from the 70s some time back in the 90s and the instructions consisted of looking at an object and wanting and willing it to move. That was it! So presumably if someone has this superpower you would want to know how it works right? Wrong. The people that supposedly have this ability don't know either. Hmmmmm
Ummm I can tell you that book left out
....err a lot of things, sorry but that's not going to cut it. Probably written by some new age American. No wonder other cultures don't want to share their secrets
 
#49
I've heard that people have seen tk first hand, so I now believe its real.
Good point. Some of us have also read a book on it. I have read a book on it, but have never seen it first hand. I also don't know anyone who has seen it first hand. I'm wondering if anyone has both read a book on it and have seen it first hand. That would be pretty amazing!
 
#51

Part 1: Robbie Graham is Editor of a new info-packed book of unique contributor essays: UFOS: REFRAMING THE DEBATE. This book covers many very important elements of this issue in a new way. With one of his outstanding essay contributors, expert Stephen Miles Lewis (SMiles), Robbie discusses why he selected these particular contributors, some of whom are experiencers, contactees, or witnesses, as he dives deeply into this issue. Robbie says, “These essays are a cold, hard slap in the face of “ufology,” delivered with love. They're a call to break away from established ideas, approaches, and practices, and to boldly tread a new path in quest of understanding what may very well be the greatest mystery of all.” This is a follow-up to the courageous foundation he laid in his previous interview on The Carol Rosin Show concerning issues in his previous book: Silver Screen Saucers: Sorting Fact from Fantasy in Hollywood’s UFO Movies. This is a whole new approach to the UFO issue. This show’s guest essayist, SMiles Lewis, Founder of Anomaly Institute, says, “I advocate for a multi-theory interpretation of the UFO phenomenon. I don’t think there is any one explanation that accounts for all the data. I think there are a number of things going on simultaneously.” After decades involved in this field, SMiles shares his insights and information about relevant altered states of consciousness, mind control, Gaian consciousness and planetary poltergeists, and much more in this interview. Beyond UFOs, SMiles also discusses so-called “Covert Folklore Warfare” by government agents. He also presents a wealth of many resources. The title of his essay is, TRUFO VS. UFAUX: PLANETARY POLTERGEISTS & WEAPONS OF MASS ENCHANTMENT. Robbie and SMiles present information and ideas that are fundamental to redirecting UFO research, now fraught with stagnation, disinformation, and distraction. Both men aim to help clear a path for a new kind of higher-frequency thought and intelligence. They present the importance of letting go of old beliefs and finding a way to deal with the daunting complexities of human cognition and consciousness, thus enabling us to eventually accept the ET/UFO reality that may help us to better understand ourselves. This mind-opening talk is critical yet constructive. The next Robbie Graham interview on The Carol Rosin Show, Part 2, will feature another of Robbie’s very special book contributor guests.
CONTACT Robbie Graham
http://www.robbiegraham.uk/
 
#54
This week we have a special panel discussion on UFOs: Reframing the Debate, the new collection of original essays edited by Robbie Graham. Joining Graham are essay contributors (and MU alumni) MJ Banias, Micah Hanks, and The Red Pill Junkie.

The new book is a call to break away from established ideas, approaches, and practices, and to boldly tread a new path in quest of understanding what may very well be the greatest mystery of all.
 
#55
There is not credible evidence that reincarnation happens actually. It isn't objective in the same way that everything else in normal conscious experience is objective. Nobody remembers a past life as if they are jsut continuing it in this life. That is universally the case. I can prove this.
Obviously you have not read any of Ian Stevenson's work, or any of the many books and videos out there about Michael Newton and Brian Weiss. Reincarnation is a fact of life. Wonder how you can "prove" that it isn't.
 
#56
One way or another, Alex and I have removed a number of posts here, and banned several people. They were all 'proponents'. I think there is absolutely no point in becoming abusive to sceptics unless they themselves become aggressive or rude to others - in which case please use the 'report' button (at the bottom right of every comment).

This is SKEPTIKO - so we welcome sceptics if they think they can put up a decent case. There is absolutely no point in people making abusive responses to sceptics - I want people to hear their arguments - not least because they are usually rather weak and hand-waiving!

David
 
#57
Hi Alex – fascinating interview; thanks

A couple of quick comments:
The ETH does not invalidate the existing scientific paradigm. If anything it validates the modern materialist paradigm.
According to the ETH the UFOs represent a more scientifically and materially advanced civilisation.
To my perception what the authors and their book seem to be arguing for is a more flexible and open-minded scientific approach to the UFO phenomenon, based on the observation that the evidence is far more complex and subtle than can be neatly summarised in a materialist ETH account.
I agree with that perspective. For me one of the most interesting perspectives on UFOs I am aware of is Jacques vallee’s.
The authors promote a more scientific approach to the data than one usually finds in the UFO literature and community.
They also emphasise the importance of taking into account the nature of human consciousness and the processes of human knowing and the fact that human knowing is profoundly subjective and interactive and interpretational; and thus the need to enquire, to what extent human consciousness and knowing conditions and even in some cases determines the experienced phenomena.
I have often argued for that last point in reference to NDEs on this forum. To adequately interpret NDE experiences we need to take into account the subjective and interpretational nature of human knowing and thus of the NDE accounts. We cannot simply take them on face value.
 

Alex

Administrator
#58
The ETH does not invalidate the existing scientific paradigm. If anything it validates the modern materialist paradigm.
According to the ETH the UFOs represent a more scientifically and materially advanced civilisation.
I guess it's come down to how you define the extraterrestrial hypothesis (ETH). that's why I played the Stan Friedman clip... he's seems to be the poster boy for ETH among many, and he's way past the materialist paradigm in many respects.
 
Top