Robert Bonomo, Follow the Money to the Non-Dual Path |491|

#2
Robert seems convinced that artificial intelligence is inevitable. Alex's question in response, of whether Consciousness of the machine shall be our ultimate transcendence seemed disturbingly thought provoking to me. I believe true Consciousness and Its distribution is the sole domain of Our Creator. If the machine (robot) has been perfected to the point that it has a voice, has hearing and vision and perfect motor functioning of its limbs, well... Maybe the Creator might astound the machine's designers and the machine will indeed be granted a Spiritual personality.
 
#3
Its impossible for any machine to achieve consciousness because it can never be intuitive , its calculating Plus, it has to be programmed and built by humans. It can't give birth and it will never have innate feelings . Its running on some type of software, never happen; this guy is a bore!
 
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#5
Watched it on release. It is very good, as his 'The 21 faces of God' tarot symbolism series.

"If I have not love, I am nothing." Kinda says it all, doesn't it? I believe Whoever or Whatever created this apparent reality acted out of Love and made the attainment of unconditional Love within each of us our ultimate goal. Only when this goal is met are we fit to reside within the Creator and feel fulfilled there. Not one thing this world may offer us should tempt us to fail Love... but alas, most of us do.
The Buddha said we are unhappy because of our desires. We continue to want in the material sense, in spite of all we may have materially. So we are perpetually unhappy in this world right to the day we die, still wanting. And due to our death in such state our Creator allows our reincarnation here since That is what we wanted; in spite of all the pain, sorrow and disappointments we will yet again live through.
 
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#6
If you haven't seen Ghost in the Shell, there's a scene where Scarlett Johansson's character, the Major, as a machine w/ a soul attached, is told 'you're where we will all be one day.' That's not an exact quote, but it does the job of readying people for the introduction of existence options. Think of the movie Surrogate. Now, for a lot of people, that's nonsense; you can't go around cramming souls into androids, but then again, how many people still think freezing your brain & thawing it out later when duh scientists have found all the disease cures (immortality) is workable?
Awareness is where it's at. One of my students called it "I am what dat is." Pretty profound for a high school kid.
I worked in China as well. One of my English students there became a good friend. He started working at Foxcon & didn't want anyone to know it partly b/c it was the filthiest polluter in the area of a whole of lot of filthy factories. He was convinced that the government would find a way to make everyone rich in China & there'd be clean air, too.
 
#8
"If I have not love, I am nothing." Kinda says it all, doesn't it? I believe Whoever or Whatever created this apparent reality acted out of Love and made the attainment of unconditional Love within each of us our ultimate goal. Only when this goal is met are we fit to reside within the Creator and feel fulfilled there. Not one thing this world may offer us should tempt us to fail Love... but alas, most of us do.
The Buddha said we are unhappy because of our desires. We continue to want in the material sense, in spite of all we may have materially. So we are perpetually unhappy in this world right to the day we die, still wanting. And due to our death in such state our Creator allows our reincarnation here since That is what we wanted; in spite of all the pain, sorrow and disappointments we will yet again live through.
yawn!!! how's the weather out there? Have you tried the new chicken McNuggets ? The extra grease make them seem like YUK !
 
#10
Watched it on release. It is very good, as is his 'The 21 faces of God' tarot symbolism series.

Twilight of the Archons does such a great job of entertaining & educating. I did know that banks are money-makers, but I didn't know that banks gov'ts rule through debt, which explains why they're usually hated second only to lawyers. Even sentimental movies like It's a Wonderful Life point out the truth of finance. In the scene w/ the run on the Savings & Loan in Bedford Falls, George Bailey points out innocently that the money is tied up in debt all over town. But that's the whole theme of human existence: most everyone does the best they can to forget how empty everything is & impermanence is to be ignored, denied, or rationalized wgile true permanence is written off as a myth or smoke & mirrors.
That was an awesome job of summing up time & space realities while the bird flock acted like a living organism on an entirely different level. I intend to write down that part of the film; it's quite rare when that much information is concentrated in such a short time span. Bravo, Bonomo, bravo!!
 
#11
The people who talk about artificial intelligence have not
Robert seems convinced that artificial intelligence is inevitable. Alex's question in response, of whether Consciousness of the machine shall be our ultimate transcendence seemed disturbingly thought provoking to me. I believe true Consciousness and Its distribution is the sole domain of Our Creator. If the machine (robot) has been perfected to the point that it has a voice, has hearing and vision and perfect motor functioning of its limbs, well... Maybe the Creator might astound the machine's designers and the machine will indeed be granted a Spiritual personality.
The AI argument has not been thought out very well. Machines do not have experiences of themselves.
Bernardo Kastrup on this sight sumed it up very well.
In part he said that a computer is identical to a plumbing system, valves and pipes - can we say a plumbing system is aware of it self as a plumbing system?( by the way he is a designer of computer systems)

Electronic system is on a grander scale so supposedly scale gives rise to 'I am , I have a experience of me'.
The is a logical gap from nothing to something which goes unexplained, even unexamined.

Don't be fooled consciousness has not ever been created by man or explained.
Its a mystery

This is clearly a case of the emperor has no clothes that and it's all contained in a black box which only a few have privy hence they can claim any old thing (since only they really know what inside)
 
#12
When I watch something like Twilight of the Archons, I watch it carefully and attentively... often stopping to reflect a moment, sometimes backing it up to make sure I caught the essence of a phrase or full statement... but then I got to my second run through. And when I got to the birds and Rupert Spira, I went in deep with it. So deep I then went back and wrote down every word, every set of words as visually separate part of the whole. The segment is just under 5 minutes.

Each morning now, as part of my own personal practice... just after I start to really wake up, I put that segment on again and read the words as Rupert's edited talk flow (edited as Robert Bonomo thought it should be for his film) and, for me, its a brilliant edit and with an incredible visual.

It is, for me, the most powerful 5 minutes of anything I ever watched/listened to.

[note: I even translated it into Spanish for my wife to experience as she only speaks Spanish]
 
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#13
I wanted this to be a separate post. Alex... is this the big reveal? You're there? Advaita Vedanta? You've landed there and remain there? Because if not, you sure do come across like you are there [starting at 44:20 after a laugh... but getting into the heart of it around 45:00].

Referring to his view of Gnosticism as "damn the Archons" and a spiritual war.

"If you are truly transcendent, how can you see this as any war? How can you see good and evil as some kind of war?

It's all good... it can't be otherwise.

It's non-dual.... there's no dual."

I share the same view as Robert... be there an archon, I can only find it in the mirror.

I agree with Alex..."If you can see that, then why not transcend it." [not his actual words, but what I imagine him saying]
 
#14
The people who talk about artificial intelligence have not

The AI argument has not been thought out very well. Machines do not have experiences of themselves.
Bernardo Kastrup on this sight sumed it up very well.
In part he said that a computer is identical to a plumbing system, valves and pipes - can we say a plumbing system is aware of it self as a plumbing system?( by the way he is a designer of computer systems)

Electronic system is on a grander scale so supposedly scale gives rise to 'I am , I have a experience of me'.
The is a logical gap from nothing to something which goes unexplained, even unexamined.

Don't be fooled consciousness has not ever been created by man or explained.
Its a mystery

This is clearly a case of the emperor has no clothes that and it's all contained in a black box which only a few have privy hence they can claim any old thing (since only they really know what inside)
I agree with this very strongly. In the earliest days, computers could manage magnificent feats like adding up columns of figures in seconds, and were commonly called "Giant Electronic Brains". I suppose most people quickly realised that they had fooled themselves. I remember we went on a trip from school to see some of the earliest computers (some were made of electronic valves (tubes) and one of them printed out a greeting to us all. We were told not to take this too seriously, but nevertheless it did make an impression on me until I realised how it had been done!

It really is vital to realise that most computers are fundamentally equivalent to clockwork - indeed there were attempts to make clockwork computers that nearly worked. Interestingly there was philosophical discussion as to whether various toys powered by flowing water were conscious! This is described in the book "The restless clock", and here is the author talking about it:


This book was recommended to me by J.Scott Turner, the author of one of the books attacking evolution by natural selection - which is a related subject I feel.

Maybe quantum computers will be different, but I am not sure these will ever reach the scale to achieve much, and I suppose until someone explains how these systems are qualitatively different in a way that will make them experience themselves, I agree with Bernardo.

David
 
#15
It really is vital to realise that most computers are fundamentally equivalent to clockwork...
I agree David.

I contend The Singularity will never happen because Clockworks, no matter how extraordinarily complex they become, can never have a Spirit.

A Materialist will argue clockworks can indeed become so complex they are de facto equivalent to human meat robots, but they are not because they have no Pneuma / Prana / Chi / Ruach (רוח), a.k.a "The Breath of Life" that God gifted to us organics.
 
#16
The people who talk about artificial intelligence have not

The AI argument has not been thought out very well. Machines do not have experiences of themselves.
Bernardo Kastrup on this sight sumed it up very well.
In part he said that a computer is identical to a plumbing system, valves and pipes - can we say a plumbing system is aware of it self as a plumbing system?( by the way he is a designer of computer systems)

Electronic system is on a grander scale so supposedly scale gives rise to 'I am , I have a experience of me'.
The is a logical gap from nothing to something which goes unexplained, even unexamined.

Don't be fooled consciousness has not ever been created by man or explained.
Its a mystery

This is clearly a case of the emperor has no clothes that and it's all contained in a black box which only a few have privy hence they can claim any old thing (since only they really know what inside)
I have to draw on my own experience w/ 'non-living things.' My earliest ones were w/ my mother's ability to get cars started after my dad tried all his tricks. She had the habit of naming our cars, so she would talk gently to which ever one was acting up as she patted the dashboard, & an amazing part of the time, the car would then start. My favorite example is how the head farmer at Ananda Cooperative Village finally got his front-end loader going after trying every thing else but prayer. He did a healing prayer of Paramahansa Yogananda's, & the loader fired right up!
Now, does this mean there's a consciousness there that responds to kindness or patience? I don't think it's anything that's beyond something very rudimentary like what an insect must have. However, as our machines gain in complexity & begin to respond in autonomous ways, we may be surprised. I guess everyone is familiar w/ FB's experiment w/ allowing some programs to 'talk' w/ among themselves & then quite quickly the programs were communicating in a form that the researchers couldn't understand, so they wisely shut it down. What I'm driving at is let's not be so confident in our status as 'conscious beings' that we get blind-sided.
 
#17
A Materialist will argue clockworks can indeed become so complex they are de facto equivalent to human meat robots, but they are not because they have no Pneuma / Prana / Chi / Ruach (רוח), a.k.a "The Breath of Life" that God gifted to us organics.
Yes, what happens is that as the scale of the AI programming increases, the illusion takes longer to dissolve. I mean, you talk to your bank's AI, and it can let you do certain transactions, but then the mask slips. Once you ask it why it isn't listening to you, you know it isn't intelligent!

David
 
#18
The machine response to prayer , good wishes (and maybe bad) is valid. And deserves consideration but subject is involved too involved for now.

My question/thought experiment ;
One hundred programmers inventing responses to possible inquiries. We send a question in - who's truely answering the question?

My example; my mysterious black box. I can say anything is inside and can not be proved false as long as I'm the only one who knows the contents.
 
#19
Can a machine experience "a life review"? Could a machine experience karma?

What would synchronicity be like for a machine? Could it recognize one?

Could it derive meaning from it if it did? (which is the key question here) And I am speaking of deep meaning. Can a machine ever acquire a consciousness that could do that?
 
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#20
Machines can't have sex and enjoy it with a spouse or a loved one or by itself. Don't know what love hate remorse is all about, repent!!! Intuitively know about compassion, flight of fight experience the paranormal and have instant reaction to it , or a real instant fear; think about God or the Devil in a deep thought process ; they won't know what its like to have children; don't know how to morn a passed family member or pet , and that's just for starters Also, they cant exist without a human building and programming them or another intelligent alien life form . Machines can't experience consciousness as humans -or another animals- and maybe even plants or water as I been reading up on, and never will. The point is mute! You can't replicate the universe and Gods nature period! We experience consciousness and we should thank god every day we can; because of human evil -say in the satanic baby parts and murder industry of say planned parent hood and entities like this - lots of babies won't! Lets hear some talk about that Evil. Nice link below from former Satanist high Wizard about his dealings in this.

https://www.lepantoin.org/former-satanist-i-performed-satanic-rituals-inside-abortion-clinics/

https://www.albanyupdate.com/former-planned-parenthood-employee-speaks-out/
 
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