Robert Bonomo, Follow the Money to the Non-Dual Path |491|

#21
Yes, what happens is that as the scale of the AI programming increases, the illusion takes longer to dissolve. I mean, you talk to your bank's AI, and it can let you do certain transactions, but then the mask slips. Once you ask it why it isn't listening to you, you know it isn't intelligent!

David
Are you sure you're not talking about my wife? I have a similar lack of response about listening, but never considered AI. Joking! I actually think machine intelligence will never be more than rudimentary, if that.
 
#22
Can a machine experience "a life review"? Could a machine experience karma?

What would synchronicity be like for a machine? Could it recognize one?

Could it derive meaning from it if it did? (which is the key question here) And I am speaking of deep meaning. Can a machine ever acquire a consciousness that could do that?
I started thinking how to test experimentally for non-living consciousness, but it would probably be boring beyond belief, like the time I tried to get an especially intelligent cat of mine to say my name. It's an intriguing idea, which shows up in mythology of course. Li Hongzhi says at the highest levels of enlightenment, the walls & doors will greet you. Another interesting idea he refers to re: dimensions is that whenever a glass object is broken here, an intelligent being is formed in another dimension. Is that an expression of a thought form involved in making glass things?
I still think of Cayce's story of human spirits in the far, far distant past inhabiting animal bodies to enjoy sensual pleasures like sex. I just hope there are none of those ethereal spirits that might want to try an AI existence & get trapped in a similar way that spirits did in animal bodies.
 
#23
I started thinking how to test experimentally for non-living consciousness, but it would probably be boring beyond belief, like the time I tried to get an especially intelligent cat of mine to say my name. It's an intriguing idea, which shows up in mythology of course. Li Hongzhi says at the highest levels of enlightenment, the walls & doors will greet you. Another interesting idea he refers to re: dimensions is that whenever a glass object is broken here, an intelligent being is formed in another dimension. Is that an expression of a thought form involved in making glass things?
I still think of Cayce's story of human spirits in the far, far distant past inhabiting animal bodies to enjoy sensual pleasures like sex. I just hope there are none of those ethereal spirits that might want to try an AI existence & get trapped in a similar way that spirits did in animal bodies.
Li a fraud cult leader?

Master Li persistently claims that the Earth is under attack from extraterrestrial aliens who are getting ready to clone and supplant the human race even as we speak. All of modern culture and technology, according to Li, is the product of alien mind control, and it’s only a matter of time before the aliens possess us all because they envy humans for having the most perfect bodies in the universe.

I guess the aliens got a load of Arnolds body back in the 70's while stacked up on steroids' :)


https://pittnews.com/article/29705/archives/falun-gong-not-so-innocent/
 

Alex

Administrator
#24
When I watch something like Twilight of the Archons, I watch it carefully and attentively... often stopping to reflect a moment, sometimes backing it up to make sure I caught the essence of a phrase or full statement... but then I got to my second run through. And when I got to the birds and Rupert Spira, I went in deep with it. So deep I then went back and wrote down every word, every set of words a s visually separate part of the whole. The segment is just under 5 minutes.

Each morning now, as part of my own personal practice... just after I start to really wake up, I put that segment on again and read the words as Rupert's edited talk flow as Robert Bonomo thought it should and, for me, its a brilliant edit and with an incredible visual.

It is, for me, the most powerful 5 minutes of anything I ever watched/listened to.

[note: I even translated it into Spanish for my wife to experience as she only speaks Spanish]
awesome! thanks for the reminder... I went and re-watched. here's a link to the clip in case anyone wants to jump right to it:
 

Alex

Administrator
#25
I wanted this to be a separate post. Alex... is this the big reveal? You're there? Advaita Vedanta? You've landed there and remain there? Because if not, you sure do come across like you are there [starting at 44:20 after a laugh... but getting into the heart of it around 45:00].

Referring to his view of Gnosticism as "damn the Archons" and a spiritual war.

"If you are truly transcendent, how can you see this as any war? How can you see good and evil as some kind of war?

It's all good... it can't be otherwise.

It's non-dual.... there's no dual."

I share the same view as Robert... be there an archon, I can only find it in the mirror.

I agree with Alex..."If you can see that, then why not transcend it." [not his actual words, but what I imagine him saying]
IDK... I'm still thinking about your Rupert Spira clip... one of the things I really love about it is that it 100% works at the logic level as well as the mystical Transcendent level. I'm not non-dual enough to not need that... excuse the double negative :)
 

Alex

Administrator
#26
I agree with this very strongly. In the earliest days, computers could manage magnificent feats like adding up columns of figures in seconds, and were commonly called "Giant Electronic Brains". I suppose most people quickly realised that they had fooled themselves. I remember we went on a trip from school to see some of the earliest computers (some were made of electronic valves (tubes) and one of them printed out a greeting to us all. We were told not to take this too seriously, but nevertheless it did make an impression on me until I realised how it had been done!

It really is vital to realise that most computers are fundamentally equivalent to clockwork - indeed there were attempts to make clockwork computers that nearly worked. Interestingly there was philosophical discussion as to whether various toys powered by flowing water were conscious! This is described in the book "The restless clock", and here is the author talking about it:


This book was recommended to me by J.Scott Turner, the author of one of the books attacking evolution by natural selection - which is a related subject I feel.

Maybe quantum computers will be different, but I am not sure these will ever reach the scale to achieve much, and I suppose until someone explains how these systems are qualitatively different in a way that will make them experience themselves, I agree with Bernardo.

David
what about the Turing test?
 

Alex

Administrator
#27
Li a fraud cult leader?

Master Li persistently claims that the Earth is under attack from extraterrestrial aliens who are getting ready to clone and supplant the human race even as we speak. All of modern culture and technology, according to Li, is the product of alien mind control, and it’s only a matter of time before the aliens possess us all because they envy humans for having the most perfect bodies in the universe.

I guess the aliens got a load of Arnolds body back in the 70's while stacked up on steroids' :)


https://pittnews.com/article/29705/archives/falun-gong-not-so-innocent/
yeah, it gets complicated real fast. the Bill of Rights in the United States has always been controversial, but when you think it through it's the only way to go. commies suck.
 
#28
yeah, it gets complicated real fast. the Bill of Rights in the United States has always been controversial, but when you think it through it's the only way to go. commies suck.
Oh you got that right. I just have a sense of humor in my last posting. I would say Mr. Li is right metaphorically . What he's talking about is the now Democratic Party of the USA and its evils . However, I do believe they shall be destroyed by their own doings starting in 2022 mid-terms. You're seeing it now in your state of CA with that low life Gov , in Michigan, and in New York . What people don't talk about is this: the people as voters - as a whole - keep putting these people in ,so who's fault is it really? Hopefully the pain is so great that big change is to come.

You talk Evil ? Well there's plenty to talk about in that group. I know this isn't a political site ….. but these issues go beyond that. My post about Satanist very possibly evolved the abortion industry is just a starter. Do they in fact use baby parts and the blood and death of a baby in a partial birth for magical purposes ? I would say some do. There's plenty of evidence to back up this claim if investigated IMO. I would say in some cases they have carrier women that get pregnant just for this purpose like in the movie Rosemary's Baby. That is the most sick most evil thing a person could do IMO.

I also think would fit right in with Mr. Crowley there and his evils ; he was the start ! I would say he started the 60's counter culture and all of that hippie BS mess too. I don't know why this man is so glamorized. I'll say I did love the rock music back then and now. What about Anton Levey? What about all magical secret groups from Wiccan to the OTO to the Golden Dawn? Do they in secret do blood sacrifice with any living being's? IMO these are issues that need to be talked about on site like this. Is it bomb throwing ? YUP! but its good to get it out in public.
 
#30
IDK... I'm still thinking about your Rupert Spira clip... one of the things I really love about it is that it 100% works at the logic level as well as the mystical Transcendent level. I'm not non-dual enough to not need that... excuse the double negative :)
We share the same common ground and in fact, (as you will soon see when I dive into discussions around Why Evil Matters) I have come to realize (and solidify an understanding of) my own spirituality which 'my perception of' has resulted in a balanced embracing of three primary levels of being - "me" as that possible non-dual awareness, "me" as, Chester Hunter (his story) and this one life and "me" as the possible individuated expression of being that survives death (and thus may have been "here" before my birth in this one life).

I have yet to come across another that expresses that they have embraced all three and who strive to continue to do so in a balanced way.
 
#33
Li a fraud cult leader?

Master Li persistently claims that the Earth is under attack from extraterrestrial aliens who are getting ready to clone and supplant the human race even as we speak. All of modern culture and technology, according to Li, is the product of alien mind control, and it’s only a matter of time before the aliens possess us all because they envy humans for having the most perfect bodies in the universe.

I guess the aliens got a load of Arnolds body back in the 70's while stacked up on steroids' :)


https://pittnews.com/article/29705/archives/falun-gong-not-so-innocent/
No, he's not a cult leader. The CCP tried to paint him as one after they began to imprison, torture, & murder Falun Dafa practitioners. I suppose that justified violating human rights in their pea-brains. I've read both of his books & a number of articles on Falun Dafa, but I've never run across that kind of ca-ca. I studied one of his books in depth w/ Chinese physics graduate students in Arlington, Texas, but never heard anything about aliens. I also regularly did the standing & sitting exercises in a public park & the only 'aliens' we ever saw were creeps in a van who were supposed to watch for any cultish activities. There was a spy sent to meditation practice in a professor's home who openly admitted to being ex-Army recruit. He came on time for a while, but then came ten minutes late regularly, so we nicknamed him 'Ten Minute Mike.' The prof finally told him to show up on time or don't bother. A couple of times I opened my eyes to look at him, & he was always sitting there w/ open eyes & this terribly bored look on his face.
I imagine that ET stuff is a CCP plant to discredit Li just like the cult smear was intended, but I will check it out. The world-wide popularity & international appeal of Falun Dafa does draw envy from some religious types. One of the reasons I left Ananda back in the '80s was they described their work as religious. I contacted an acquaintance of mine from my 2 years at Ananda Cooperative Village about a year ago. He was quite proud of Ananda's efforts to spread Yogananda's message. He told me there were several groups similar to Ananda Village in California now, & two were flourishing in India. After I told him I was a Falun Dafa practitioner & it had millions of followers in 30 different countries, he never answered another email!!
 
#34
what about the Turing test?
I'm so glad you brought up the Restless Clock again. What is especially exciting is the link between the splitting of living things away from machines, the spirit away from the body; I learned recently from Stephan Schwartz that the catholic church informed the growing scientific community that they were to stay away from spiritual or consciousness issues & reinforced this by murdering those who strayed, even as late as the 1800s. Of course, why would anyone put their life on the line for something so fundamental, so intricate to explain as self-modifying animals? The catholic church is responsible for slaying inquiry into a crucial aspect of biology, the universe, to please their slimy old sadistic geezer in the sky. Thou shalt have no gods before Me!! This schism is directly responsible for the hogwash of one life & you're worm dirt & it's all over or Heaven & Hell. You choose which is the more nauseatingly stupid.
The Restless Clock also lends itself well to Li Hongzhi's assertion that distinct worlds exist infinitely smaller & infinitely larger all around us & recognizing this is a key to seeing the cosmos as a living machine, not a dead one. Consciousness (Life) is fundamental. We're back to Suzanne Giesemann, who says life is not either/or but both/and.
If you're not familiar w/ Giesemann or Schwartz., you can view their discussions w/ Dr. Eben Alexander & Karen Newell by using this guest link:
https://www.innersanctumcenter.com/united
Sorry, I couldn't get the link to copy, so I typed here it instead.
 
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#35
No, he's not a cult leader. The CCP tried to paint him as one after they began to imprison, torture, & murder Falun Dafa practitioners. I suppose that justified violating human rights in their pea-brains. I've read both of his books & a number of articles on Falun Dafa, but I've never run across that kind of ca-ca. I studied one of his books in depth w/ Chinese physics graduate students in Arlington, Texas, but never heard anything about aliens. I also regularly did the standing & sitting exercises in a public park & the only 'aliens' we ever saw were creeps in a van who were supposed to watch for any cultish activities. There was a spy sent to meditation practice in a professor's home who openly admitted to being ex-Army recruit. He came on time for a while, but then came ten minutes late regularly, so we nicknamed him 'Ten Minute Mike.' The prof finally told him to show up on time or don't bother. A couple of times I opened my eyes to look at him, & he was always sitting there w/ open eyes & this terribly bored look on his face.
I imagine that ET stuff is a CCP plant to discredit Li just like the cult smear was intended, but I will check it out. The world-wide popularity & international appeal of Falun Dafa does draw envy from some religious types. One of the reasons I left Ananda back in the '80s was they described their work as religious. I contacted an acquaintance of mine from my 2 years at Ananda Cooperative Village about a year ago. He was quite proud of Ananda's efforts to spread Yogananda's message. He told me there were several groups similar to Ananda Village in California now, & two were flourishing in India. After I told him I was a Falun Dafa practitioner & it had millions of followers in 30 different countries, he never answered another email!!
Yogananda's

That's another one Yogananda: I read his book and its outrageously not believable with regards to the supernatural abilities of his Yogi teachers. It was so bad I really couldn't take the book seriously. I mean I get it with his basic teachings, but the rest was not closely believable . I even read that one of his legitimate guru Yogi teachers told him not to print it do the book because of those false facts. I got the book and was so excited , couldn't wait to read it and after I started was like Come on man!!!!
 
#36
It might help if you mentioned to whom that question was addressed...
To anybody on the site that makes a big deal about Evil. There's lots of interviews podcast about the subject here , buts its just coffee shop talk. If you want to get into evil, then lets address it with some real life issues. I would say one is the link I posted about Satanists and their involvement with the partial birth abortion industry for starters . As of right now ,well lots. Mr murderer Gov of New York State ; he just killed about 15000 seniors when he forced covid patients into nursing homes on purpose in 2020 knowing it was a death sentence. I'm sure if that was Trump the riots and call's for his head would still be going on.
 
#37
Yogananda's

That's another one Yogananda: I read his book and its outrageously not believable with regards to the supernatural abilities of his Yogi teachers. It was so bad I really couldn't take the book seriously. I mean I get it with his basic teachings, but the rest was not closely believable . I even read that one of his legitimate guru Yogi teachers told him not to print it do the book because of those false facts. I got the book and was so excited , couldn't wait to read it and after I started was like Come on man!!!!
Yes, I got that same response from some of my Hatha Yoga students who read his Autobio. of a Yogi. One of them asked me, "Do you really believe that stuff?" I wanted to ask her if she believed the miracles in the Bible. I think Yogananda believed firmly that people won't pay much attention unless there are wonders performed, just like the Bible says. He wasn't above a few tricks for sure. I read that he used an old carny trick to show his yogic strength: he would have some strong men line up & brace the shoulders of the man in front of him w/ him at the end w/ his hands resting on a wall; then he would push them all back from him w/ ease. The trick is to shrug your shoulders in a certain way to throw them off balance which makes them easy to push back.
However, I had a number of experiences at Ananda that are hard to explain other than as spiritual or psychic ones. One happened at a celebration on Master's birthday in the temple on the Farm. I was one of the first people there & was handed a candle in a cardboard stand. I was told to light it & put it down up front in a line near a big photograph of Master (which was his preferred title). There was a big candle burning in front of his photo, so I lit mine using that one. I sat up front since I was early & watched as devotees filed in & lit their candles. I couldn't help but notice that some lit their candles like I did, but others lit theirs using one of the small ones burning up front. As the ceremony proceeded, I saw that some of the candles burned down quickly while others burned slowly & steadily. I was puzzled why some did & others didn't. There was no steady air draft up front & there was no pattern to the lasting ones. They were randomly scattered here & there, not all on the left or right, etc. The candles were all the same thickness & height. Then, to my pleased amazement, I realized the difference. The lasting ones, like mine, were lit off Master's candle in front of his picture!
I won't go on w/ instances from Ananda, but I have a few associated w/ Master Li that give me reason to believe he's a legitimate, enlightened qigong master. Let me know if you'd like to read one or two.
To anybody on the site that makes a big deal about Evil. There's lots of interviews podcast about the subject here , buts its just coffee shop talk. If you want to get into evil, then lets address it with some real life issues. I would say one is the link I posted about Satanists and their involvement with the partial birth abortion industry for starters . As of right now ,well lots. Mr murderer Gov of New York State ; he just killed about 15000 seniors when he forced covid patients into nursing homes on purpose in 2020 knowing it was a death sentence. I'm sure if that was Trump the riots and call's for his head would still be going on.
To anybody on the site that makes a big deal about Evil. There's lots of interviews podcast about the subject here , buts its just coffee shop talk. If you want to get into evil, then lets address it with some real life issues. I would say one is the link I posted about Satanists and their involvement with the partial birth abortion industry for starters . As of right now ,well lots. Mr murderer Gov of New York State ; he just killed about 15000 seniors when he forced covid patients into nursing homes on purpose in 2020 knowing it was a death sentence. I'm sure if that was Trump the riots and call's for his head would still be going on.
I was sorry to hear Cuomo made such a bad move. It sounds like all that sexual harassment/abuse he's got trouble w/ may end his time as gov. of NY & that that will be a good thing if his judgement is so poor. The callousness of political leaders & a lot of times, their constituents, never fails to amaze me. Maybe you're familiar w/ Duterte's "war on drugs" in the Philippines which has resulted in deaths somewhere between 8,000 & 15,000 filipinos, depending on whom is counting. Most of these were extra-judicial killings on the streets by masked motorcycle riders & others were done in jails & prisons. Despite a complete disregard for due process & the obvious problem of killing bystanders while executing drug dealers/users, Duterte remains extremely popular in the Php. Why?? How?? His money from the Chinese has never arrived: less than a billion dollars has been received from a promised 24 billion. His campaign to end corruption didn't stop the bankruptcy of the PhilHealth system due to hospitals & doctors falsely claiming they had COVID-19 patients so they could get the 70,000 pesos for their treatment. The only thing he seems able to do is stand up to Chinese poaching in Php fishing waters, which is probably why the CCP hasn't released any more money.
 
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#39
You did a great job of summarizing the Absolute Awareness which is reached as one systematically notes what one is not: not a body, mind, memories, ego, personality, etc. The mind is especially tricky in that it perpetually grasps at desires & names oneself based on these desires. The possibility of rebirth is reduced as one sheds false associations that generate karma, both good & bad. As Tolle says, forgiveness is the best way to end karma.
 

Alex

Administrator
#40
Yes, I got that same response from some of my Hatha Yoga students who read his Autobio. of a Yogi. One of them asked me, "Do you really believe that stuff?" I wanted to ask her if she believed the miracles in the Bible. I think Yogananda believed firmly that people won't pay much attention unless there are wonders performed, just like the Bible says. He wasn't above a few tricks for sure. I read that he used an old carny trick to show his yogic strength: he would have some strong men line up & brace the shoulders of the man in front of him w/ him at the end w/ his hands resting on a wall; then he would push them all back from him w/ ease. The trick is to shrug your shoulders in a certain way to throw them off balance which makes them easy to push back.
However, I had a number of experiences at Ananda that are hard to explain other than as spiritual or psychic ones. One happened at a celebration on Master's birthday in the temple on the Farm. I was one of the first people there & was handed a candle in a cardboard stand. I was told to light it & put it down up front in a line near a big photograph of Master (which was his preferred title). There was a big candle burning in front of his photo, so I lit mine using that one. I sat up front since I was early & watched as devotees filed in & lit their candles. I couldn't help but notice that some lit their candles like I did, but others lit theirs using one of the small ones burning up front. As the ceremony proceeded, I saw that some of the candles burned down quickly while others burned slowly & steadily. I was puzzled why some did & others didn't. There was no steady air draft up front & there was no pattern to the lasting ones. They were randomly scattered here & there, not all on the left or right, etc. The candles were all the same thickness & height. Then, to my pleased amazement, I realized the difference. The lasting ones, like mine, were lit off Master's candle in front of his picture!
I won't go on w/ instances from Ananda, but I have a few associated w/ Master Li that give me reason to believe he's a legitimate, enlightened qigong master. Let me know if you'd like to read one or two.


I was sorry to hear Cuomo made such a bad move. It sounds like all that sexual harassment/abuse he's got trouble w/ may end his time as gov. of NY & that that will be a good thing if his judgement is so poor. The callousness of political leaders & a lot of times, their constituents, never fails to amaze me. Maybe you're familiar w/ Duterte's "war on drugs" in the Philippines which has resulted in deaths somewhere between 8,000 & 15,000 filipinos, depending on whom is counting. Most of these were extra-judicial killings on the streets by masked motorcycle riders & others were done in jails & prisons. Despite a complete disregard for due process & the obvious problem of killing bystanders while executing drug dealers/users, Duterte remains extremely popular in the Php. Why?? How?? His money from the Chinese has never arrived: less than a billion dollars has been received from a promised 24 billion. His campaign to end corruption didn't stop the bankruptcy of the PhilHealth system due to hospitals & doctors falsely claiming they had COVID-19 patients so they could get the 70,000 pesos for their treatment. The only thing he seems able to do is stand up to Chinese poaching in Php fishing waters, which is probably why the CCP hasn't released any more money.
do you have and ref for yoganada trickery? I looked but could only find:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/srfblacklist/yogananda-s-pulse-trick-t236.html

on the other hand, there are lot of eye witness accounts by reliable folks... it wasn't that long ago.
 
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