Russ Dizdar, Are Christians Less Wrong About Ritual Abuse? |440|

#42
FYI -- I was being facetious with bringing Jacobs in. My point was that his theory is equally as biased (and immoral) as Westall & Dizdar (or maybe I should say Westall & Dizdar are as biased & immoral as Jacobs). But thanks for the link. I had forgotten about some of those accusations.
Oh, good. Whenever Jacobs is brought up I immediately am taken back to my misspent youth, listening to episodes of Paratopia on burnt cds, and having my mind blown repeatedly by both the bizarre comedy and content of that show. The Jacobs-Woods fiasco is forever etched in my memory, particularly Jeff & Jer’s expose at that time. Here’s some discussion on the forum that clarifies the issue for those not in the know about it:

http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threa...y-to-investigate-alien-contact.231/#post-3515

That aside, and back to the topic of evil, I find that devils and demons and bogeymen of all kinds seem to be most useful to those seeking to defend traditionalist religious structures. “If the devil is real, then God must be real, too!” goes the reasoning. You can see this pretty transparently on the Drudge Report which I mentioned above. Drudge is a conservative and a catholic (from what I gather). He frequently posts stuff about exorcisms and demons and negative articles about the occult amongst his other more mainstream news links. (He’s also good for posting UFO stories, for those interested). I bring this up because I think it’s probably fairly representative of a lot of Christian feeling out there - weird stuff is happening that defies any explanation they are familiar with aside from that of traditionalist Christianity, therefore that’s another point for the literal truthiness of the faith. Evidence of weird stuff is evidence for Satan and evidence for Satan is evidence for God, so, that’s the silver lining. The more weird stuff one encounters, as unsettling as it may be for the unchurched and unconverted, is just more comforting assurance to the True Believer who will digest it as laid out above and see it as confirming his entire worldview.

I think this applies to Dizdar, if I am not being abundantly clear.
 
#43
Like Crystal, I am getting worried about this topic. The trouble is that it is easy to say that people with MPD have almost always been abused in childhood, but is this accepted generally among psychiatrists? Now I am more than willing to go after fake science and science that depends on 'consensus' is particularly dubious, but actually Alex, it might be more interesting and informative to go after the science of psychiatry more broadly. After all, this is a science that purports to explain aspects of consciousness. Interestingly, there are people making a case that psychiatry isn't really scientific:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/05/the-real-problems-with-psychiatry/275371/

(This is something I GOOGLED up on a whim as I wrote this reply - I am yet to read it in detail)

I am sure that Russ' advice to simply accept signs of Satan worship as motivational evidence is excellent - because we would all agree that the more child abusers that are caught and locked away the better.

David
Check out madinamerica.com, website full of psychiatrist and psychologist stating same, psychiatry is one big scam
 
#44
Oh, good. Whenever Jacobs is brought up I immediately am taken back to my misspent youth, listening to episodes of Paratopia on burnt cds, and having my mind blown repeatedly by both the bizarre comedy and content of that show. The Jacobs-Woods fiasco is forever etched in my memory, particularly Jeff & Jer’s expose at that time. Here’s some discussion on the forum that clarifies the issue for those not in the know about it:

http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threa...y-to-investigate-alien-contact.231/#post-3515

That aside, and back to the topic of evil, I find that devils and demons and bogeymen of all kinds seem to be most useful to those seeking to defend traditionalist religious structures. “If the devil is real, then God must be real, too!” goes the reasoning. You can see this pretty transparently on the Drudge Report which I mentioned above. Drudge is a conservative and a catholic (from what I gather). He frequently posts stuff about exorcisms and demons and negative articles about the occult amongst his other more mainstream news links. (He’s also good for posting UFO stories, for those interested). I bring this up because I think it’s probably fairly representative of a lot of Christian feeling out there - weird stuff is happening that defies any explanation they are familiar with aside from that of traditionalist Christianity, therefore that’s another point for the literal truthiness of the faith. Evidence of weird stuff is evidence for Satan and evidence for Satan is evidence for God, so, that’s the silver lining. The more weird stuff one encounters, as unsettling as it may be for the unchurched and unconverted, is just more comforting assurance to the True Believer who will digest it as laid out above and see it as confirming his entire worldview.

I think this applies to Dizdar, if I am not being abundantly clear.
I agree. That's why it would be wonderful if Alex had Patrick Harpur on (or JMG) to give another perspective. People don't realize that one need not be Christian to be highly indoctrinated by the Christian perspective. Much like you don't have to be a neocon or neoliberal to have American Exceptionalism steeped into your political ideology.
 
#45
Check out madinamerica.com, website full of psychiatrist and psychologist stating same, psychiatry is one big scam
I don't think psychiatry or psychology is one big scam. They do have a much much much higher success rate than economists do. That is an even bigger scam. I think Jungian psychology at least brings in a spiritual component. And unlike most psychology which says that the dominant culture and its norms and values are what we should strive for no matter how insane they may be, Jungian psychology does not fall into that trap.
 
#46
I don't think psychiatry or psychology is one big scam. They do have a much much much higher success rate than economists do. That is an even bigger scam. I think Jungian psychology at least brings in a spiritual component. And unlike most psychology which says that the dominant culture and its norms and values are what we should strive for no matter how insane they may be, Jungian psychology does not fall into that trap.
Jung is ok....
 
#47
Aru
I don't think psychiatry or psychology is one big scam. They do have a much much much higher success rate than economists do. That is an even bigger scam. I think Jungian psychology at least brings in a spiritual component. And unlike most psychology which says that the dominant culture and its norms and values are what we should strive for no matter how insane they may be, Jungian psychology does not fall into that trap.
Study more check out the site and history of psychiatry, it's a huge scam and Peterson was a Jungian and had a horrible benzo withdrawal, I hope he gets well
 
#48
Aru

Study more check out the site and history of psychiatry, it's a huge scam and Peterson was a Jungian and had a horrible benzo withdrawal, I hope he gets well
I don't consider Peterson a Jungian, though he certainly might. He cherry-picks specific Jungian archetypes and uses those to enhance his disgusting machismo philosophy. He's the dirty gutter of Jungian psychology.

But yes -- I agree. Psychology/psychiatry has got a nice history of military involvement which has more or less set its standards in the practical world.
 
#50
If you believe her, that town is full of pedophile occultists who were powerful enough to stop an FBI investigation.
Again, I think of Mena, a small town powerful enough to not only stop all investigations and prosecutions for 2 decades, but then to get a blockbuster Hollywood film made about the entire conspiracy.
 
#51
Consider this video - I will provide my own comments in a later post but I really hope to hear from the folks who have been commenting here first -

I think if Hollywood were like a Red Light District for all this disgusting shyte that wouldn’t be so bad, that way it could be well-contained, have age limits and clear, open transparency in what they are doing and why/how. Those who have a penchant for this sort of abuse could dive right in, and the rest of us wouldn’t be subliminally bombarded with it everywhere we look.
 
#52
One more comment on the Jolie clip—it speaks to what I think is the real nature of this brand of evil and why it has to start in childhood to be most effective. The scapegoated child who is being abused is not traumatized by the torture as much as by the normalization of it and by the fact that no one will come to their aid. This is what creates the culture of abuse and why it’s so important to ‘evil-doers’ that they have an audience of accomplices.
 
#53
I agree. That's why it would be wonderful if Alex had Patrick Harpur on (or JMG) to give another perspective. People don't realize that one need not be Christian to be highly indoctrinated by the Christian perspective. Much like you don't have to be a neocon or neoliberal to have American Exceptionalism steeped into your political ideology.
Warning - a long post but to get to the gist of that which I wish to point out, I must build to it.

I consider the God and "Good Angels" / Satan and demons dynamic as a paradigm (understanding there are various versions). I consider the "Gnostic mythos" and its dynamic a paradigm (understanding there are various versions). I consider the "good alien / "bad alien" a paradigm (considering all the threads weaved within it). These are just three which are western-centric (thus I am more familiar with them). I point these out as examples to make a point which I will address at the end of this post.

Before I do so, it appears that humans really like entertaining these types of paradigms. They arise within a culture and live a life over time. Some become massively pervasive and live long lives. Some gain a cult following but seem limited in their reach. Some come and then recede yet later, emerge with a new iteration (like the Gnostic myths). Some become religions although I would argue, they all function as religions.

It seems within all of them is the property of "good" / "bad" or "good" / "evil" and if we look at some of the so called "occult" paradigms you sometimes get a reversal of what is seen as good or bad. But also, and what I think attracts folks to some of the so called occult orders is that you generally find subtleties that are missed by most folks which suggest to me that these movements generally attract and are made up of folks who have significant intellectual ability. Understand, exploring these occulted subjects and having a heightened cognitive capacity does not make them "right" (or "wrong" for that matter). It just weeds out the more simple minded (I sorta see myself more at this level by the way... but maybe I am more lazy than IQ limited).

You then have "the mystical" where some end up at non-dualism and many would argue that is the goal, that is the right place to land. Some would argue that to argue that says "you ain't there."

I would like to point out facts. One fact is that one's physical body is finite both in reach (and I mean this literally) and in the time one understands it will remain "animated" (what is called "alive"). And so it is my opinion that most humans (close to all humans) deal with this fact one way or the other which results in their eventual "settling" on incorporating one of the available paradigms into their world view. Some (perhaps many) don't do this consciously. Some chose a framework (such as a specific formal religion or "spiritual practice") that lands within one of these paradigms and sometimes what framework they consciously choose is or becomes conflicted with what their subconscious has settled on and thus heavily influences their life experience emerging when things get tricky... when things go weird. In some cases, (more rare than I would wish), the individual sees this internal conflict and explores at a deeper level. I sometimes like to think that is what I have done. But I always surprise myself (negatively) so who knows.

But what I have come to hold as an assumption which may pan out to be a deeper truth, is that the experience we have as human beings (because most of us are anchored to the body/physicality point of view), are motivated by acknowledging the most certain "end of the road" and thus strive to settle on what that may mean or what might be a solution to the conflict one has where, on the one hand, most humans strive to survive and thrive yet on the other hand, why does it matter when we know it all ends? And soon? - something that is especially clear to older humans like myself who is 62 and sees the acceleration of time and how it just flies by.

And so the human is faced with that "need" to make a choice... not all humans, but certainly a high percentage. Some settle on - "That's it" and become atheists. Some chose "non-dualism" so it doesn't matter as its all an illusion anyway. Some (the vast majority) either settle on an "agnostic" POV (which leaves the door open there may be life after death) and some go for a formal religion and all its rules as to what happens with "them" after death, etc. This latter path seeks life after death. Agnosticism holds out hope there may be something after. The non-dualist settles on it doesn't matter, its all illusion anyways and the atheist settles on the inevitability of their individualized end.

Regardless of where one might fit in the above bigger picture... and I admit I likely missed inclusion of an equally significant "picture" what seems to be missed by everyone is, how little we understand "reality" and yet how so damn many humans, when they begin to reach that point where they are settled on their opinion as to what reality is, in all too many cases, begin to push their view on their fellow human.

With all the above in mind, I now wish to introduce one significant component to the human experience which, because of what I describe above as "the human habit" we may all be dealing with in such a way that "It" is in charge of us instead of each of us being the one ultimately in charge of oneself. And note, I capitalize the words for "It" for two reasons and two reasons only. The first is my respect for "It" and the second is to emphasize "It's" importance. Some are coming to refer to "It" as "The Phenomenon."

It has become my most favored assumption that the problem human beings have with regards to any of their experiences which involve altered consciousness (and which involve what Alex calls "extended consciousness) they far too easily interpret their experiences in ways that lead them into high speculation at the minimum and outright conclusion at the maximum their experiences fit within an existing paradigm or (and this is how so many religions begin) advance an existing paradigm or begin the formation of a new paradigm.

And so what is the result of this behavior? A behavior that is embedded within humanity? One result has been the rise of science which, from this perspective is a very good thing. But the negative of this has been the place science finds itself today (though there are signs of hope this firewall may be cracking) stuck in the primary metaphysical cosmological world view of physicalism and worse, materialism... and there's more to say about that but best deferred to a later post.

But what I believe is the most impactful result of this behavior, is that we are avoiding looking at The Phenomenon because we only allow ourselves to consider "It" within the framework of a religion or the framework of a greater paradigm and by doing so, we never consider "It" in relation to "It's" dynamic with humanity. It is my firm opinion that until we get rid of this human entrenched habit coupled with science making a clear and universally shared decision to consider there may be a deeper fundamental to "reality" than measurable science can understand (and consider it may never be measurable - "turtles all the way down") and instead start to consider we, as human conscious agents may very well be so married to our experience of separateness and our deeply embedded individual-centric component that plays such a massive role in what we are willing to allow ourselves to open our mind to, that we miss the following possibility (and this is the point I was driving towards through this entire post):

And sadly this cannot be explored without doing so within a framework as well... that being the assumption of the fundamental of reality being consciousness. So admitting that this must first be assumed, it appears to me that conscious agency, as it interacts with greater consciousness, creates (or at least co-creates) the very forms it experiences that manifest from this region of extended consciousness beyond its own "believable reality." It is my conclusion that humans have hardened the lines between our experiential reality and the greater reality and this is done first and foremost with our deeply embedded affinity to individualization... to conscious agency. And as we do what is natural to do... to experience, even though we have walled ourselves off from greater reality to a great degree, this wall is not imperious. So that when tiny portals are opened... whether in the dream state, in an altered consciousness state or in a state where the subconscious is knocking on the door of the waking state, ordinary conscious state... The Phenomenon has the opportunity to make an appearance. And this is what "It" does and we do what we do (as I described above). And "It" will forever remain unknown as to its true nature as long as we continue to focus upon the forms via which "It" manifests. And unless we recognize what we are dealing with, "It" will control us.

It is my opinion that an individual human being can obtain (perhaps regain) their own sovereignty once they recognize they are directly interacting with "It" and consider that it may be a fact of the reality that the individual and "It" are both a part of the greater reality and thus simply a product of nature. And that the individual has the primary responsibility as to the form which "It" appears in their sub-reality, the human experience.

I will tie this view back into the specific "thing" being considered... "Good and evil" but this will be done in another post.

Also, I am sure I lost everyone along the way of this post but I am compelled to write and post it anyways... Have a great day!
 
#55
good, but don't you think we need to take a stab at what this means to be "surrounded by evil spirits." when you talk to the NDE folks you get the impression that this stuff doesn't matter... well, unless you talk to the folks who had a hellish NDE... whole other topic... but one that I'm really interested in exploring :) anyway, most of the nde people don't focus on this... same goes for the after-death communication folks and the between lives folks... for the most part it's all light and love and positive messages. so I'd just like to advance the ball a little bit in terms of understanding the other side.
thanks Alex. Well, from what I've read in the Spirit's Book we are each given a Guardian Angel to help guide and protect us through life on Earth. But we, unless we are made aware of this fact through teachings and comply with the principles of living a good and fair life with respect to our fellow humans, can become game for inferior or even evil spirits. Such spirits entice us into obsessions about money or material things or perverse sexual activity. As we embark on such immoral path harming other people our Guardian Angel withdraws from us but not entirely. I once read scrawled on a construction toilet the following, "Today is the first day of the rest of your life." I took that to heart and never forgot it. It's never too late to change our ways. As we return to abiding by the principles of leading a good and fair life, not necessarily sectarily religious at all, God's Guardian Angel will return to be in our company.
 
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#56
Sam, I was struck by how matter of fact Jolie was, as if this path is just one among others. I have always found her disgusting / must have been picking up on her energy.
It’s like looking at a train wreck, ‘they’ want us to be disgusted, and to worship the disgusting. That’s why they parade these mind-slaves in front of us, make them beautiful one minute and horrifying the next, to demon-strate how much control they have over not only their minions, but everyone adoring them, too.
 
#57
Again, I think of Mena, a small town powerful enough to not only stop all investigations and prosecutions for 2 decades, but then to get a blockbuster Hollywood film made about the entire conspiracy.
I really don't know how to respond to this. I don't understand your reasoning process. Because the CIA and its contracted intel people were able to keep a drug smuggling operation quiet on the outskirts of a small town, therefore, that means that it is possible for a giant satellite operation involving thousands of towns to have sprung up as part of some giant pedophile occultist cabal that does all kinds of horrific things. See the problem with this line of thinking?
 
#58
I will tie this view back into the specific "thing" being considered... "Good and evil" but this will be done in another post.
I think when you refer to “The Phenomenon” that is what’s been called “The Mystery” right, as in the ancient mystery school teachings? When you tie this back to the ‘good vs evil’ it will be more clear I suspect.

And "It" will forever remain unknown as to its true nature as long as we continue to focus upon the forms via which "It" manifests. And unless we recognize what we are dealing with, "It" will control us.
I definitely like considering where control comes into the picture. Do you think there is an actual space where we are not controlled by It? Is this possibly where the Transhumanist agenda fits in? And what about the Jolie clip, she’s clearly controlled, is that the same It?!
 
#59
I really don't know how to respond to this. I don't understand your reasoning process. Because the CIA and its contracted intel people were able to keep a drug smuggling operation quiet on the outskirts of a small town, therefore, that means that it is possible for a giant satellite operation involving thousands of towns to have sprung up as part of some giant pedophile occultist cabal that does all kinds of horrific things. See the problem with this line of thinking?
I see you do not know the history, so yes, there’s a problem with this line of thinking. This was an international operation, running drugs, weapons, and training soldiers through many small towns of the rural south, Mena became the scapegoat b/c of the airport where the initial action was taking place. Millions of dollars of taxpayer money went into the investigations, which spanned many countries, including money laundering on a vast scale. While Clinton was governor there he ran the operation with the Bush cartel, and did such an exceptional job he was made President. While he was governor and was being investigated and hounded by an angry public, he insisted it was a ‘federal’ issue. Then when he became President he said it was a ‘local’ issue. So what we see here is a precedent of deceit and collusion from small rural towns to the Oval Office, the CIA, international governments, and human trafficking. Just because pedophilia wasn’t part of it means very little—the existence of criminal global cartels works, that’s my point.

And then they have the balls to make a blockbuster movie from it, starring Tom Cruise, to make sure everyone’s noses— from the whistleblowers, to the relatives of the murdered witnesses—gets good and rubbed in their crimes, so they never forget how the system works.
 
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