Sarah Westall, Trafficking/Blackmail Cycle of Evil |410|

Nope. We’ve never seen evidence she said a thing about Abramovic. What you’re thinking of is from John Podesta’s leaked e-mails. https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/15893
1) I GOOGLED this at the time, and I found a link to something in a US newspaper. The statement looked quite innocent unless you knew what Abramovic's art consisted of. The article was plainly pro-Clinton, so possibly this comment has been tidied away since.

2) The spirit cooking email was discovered on Hillary's secret and illegal email server. One question that is rarely asked, is why she chose to set this thing up in the first place!

I mean, if nothing is investigated by the police or the MSM it is very hard to connect all the dots.

Myself, I am uncertain what to make of the spirit cooking business, but I am certainly glad that President Trump was not involved in anything like that!

David
 
When you look over the evidence provided for the "satanic panic" cases, most seem like at the bare minimum molestation's were rampant and are probably rampant to this day. Is it ritual, part of some grand conspiracy, signs lead to yes for me. However, not in every case or everywhere, it is statistically impossible. There are also potentially false claims and false narratives that are put out to muddy the waters for people like me that try to research as much as I can.
John you make a powerful case. Some researchers make the case that sexual abuse is endemic in human culture. I am thinking of Lloyd deMause for example, as well as some commentary in the esoteric literature. But some of that sense of 'abuse' is framed in contemporary terms - and not in the context of the culture of the time. But I think that's a distinction between an outcome that is neurotic as opposed to being traumatic. From deMause I get the sense of persistent self perpetuating neurosis travelling through generations as a rule.

The routine sexual exploitation through religious institutions is wider than the Christian history we know about. I was surprised to read about the level of abuse against boys in Islamic madrasas in Pakistan a few years back. I didn't know about Buddhist's abuse.

Ritual sacrifice of children is another matter, I think, at least in the sense that I am not aware that there was torture or sexual abuse connected with it. Ritualised abuse extends into elite educational institutions and the military, so we must not think that it is related to anything occult - not all ritual is occult or religious - a lot of it is secular.

I think there is a dark reality about complex cultures, in sympathy with deMause's notion of psychohistory - abuse across a spectrum is normal and it will manifest in extreme forms in some cultures and sub-cultures, There will be expressions of depraved predatory conduct in our culture, as well as less toxic manifestations that are no less harmful.

Australia conducted a Royal Commission into institutionalised sexual abuse that revealed not only the acts of predatory priests and clergy but systemic and wilful abuse by carers. The focus was on children and adolescents and did not touch psychiatric hospitals where patients were abused or the abuse of young adults in institutions like schools, police services, prisons or the military.

For me a culture that accepts prostitution and pornography blurs the line between psychologically healthy sexuality and a willingness to accommodate two abusive industries because we are mislead into thinking that they are engaged in via free and and informed choice.

Abuse is perpetuated through generations because it is normalised on the one hand, and part of a degraded and deranged cultural interpretation of power and privilege on the other.

I don't think there is 'an answer' that does not begin with our personal choices.
 
"McGowan was an atheist." Yes, but as I stated in a previous post, "welcome to America." In other words, you can be an atheist all day long, but if you and your ancestors are steeped in American culture, you are by default a Christian in many ways without knowing it. It still permeates and makes up much of your worldview whether you wish it to or not.
Hi CS, I know this really isn't the focus of your post, but you said something that I think should be highlighted and underscored. We are what we are, not who we say we are - and we can't reject the influences that crafted our psyches with ease - in the same manner that we reject the culture.
 
ust anecdotes - but it was enough for me in combination with all of the other stories out there that I cannot totally dismiss the possibility of a larger network of abusive cults like these which include people from all levels of society. How they are controlled and who by, no idea!
Wow! Those are creepy and disturbing stories, But let's be careful about assuming there is a 'network' of cults under some kind of control. We can imagine, but is there any evidence?

I am a fan of the normal curve - so I'd expect that there are some psychopathic personalities engaged in ritual systems, and, like any cult, they have followers. I have not seen evidence that cults in general are organised or under any kind of overt control.

This is going to seem a bit hard, but the reality is that the fact that such behaviour is expressed in really unremarkable. That is not to diminish its awfulness. We could pick on any number of aberrant acts and find repeated similar instances with no hint of them being a movement.

This is then problem I have had with this show from the outset. The fact that something awful is happening does not mean we should be alarmed beyond our natural empathy for the victims and revulsion at the act/s. This kind of stuff goes on all the time, and has done so for millennia. What should trouble us is the fact that not only is it still happening but that our power elites are not only unmoved, they are often players. We might also bother to be concerned that we live in an age where the means to perpetrate these evils are enabled by technologies we benefit from, and policies enacted in our name.

I come back to something I have said before - what is the call to action? Are we dealing with moral outrage or just moral T&A (titillation & arousal - moral pornography for the morally self-righteous)?

Now you know about it, what are you going to do about it? If nothing, then its moral pornography.
 
Going back by how many millennia? 6, 8 or 10? since urban/agricultural 'civilisation' began? Your examples are all within this era and reveal exploitative, gratuitously cruel and repressive behaviour because patriarchal societies have been around that long.

I am european so have mostly studied 'white race' history. Yet early european pre-christian cultures share truths and compatibilities with known worldwide indigenous cultures including a balancing reverence for feminine and masculine deities/spirits, women and men having different, yet seen as equally valid roles and high priority for care of the sick and young. There are pockets of this matriarchal welfare-oriented belief system within our predominantly patriarchal 'interests of the individual' paradigm. And periods of matriarchal flourishing for e.g. in the hippy movement. The influence of the matrilineal Pictish clan is reflected in Scotland's more egalitarian marital laws. There were neolithic peaceful pagan societies showing care of the vulnerable in their archeology. The Cathars, where men and women lived together without thinking it sinful, before they were brutally eliminated by the Roman Catholic Church. And Minoans of Crete who avoided war for 1,500 years, their grave goods are few, without weapons, their art was naturalistic, their clothes and poetry demonstrate a pleasure in life and sex, and not an attentive reverence for death, exclusivity and condemnation of difference.

That behaviour is found where the Deity (singular) is male; women, the sick and young have low status; the hierarchy requires submission or passive compliance, and there is a marked propensity for indulging in violence, murder and exploitation. It has been this way for so long our memories are entrenched in assumptions that it represents all or a dominant trait of human nature. We are potentially diverse but the cycle that 'belief creates perception, which endorses experience and informs reality' tends to bring out some human traits and suppress others.

Mainstream reporting of our history is embedded in the prevailing belief system and does not often report on matriarchal social behaviour, which may not have a written record and anyway that might disadvantageously highlight some of the oppressive measures practiced by the invasive patriarchal culture, bent on the elimination of all others but its own. People will change their (spots) beliefs and behaviour, or will say they do, to fit in with the current cultural backdrop, especially if the alternative is some form of horribly painful death. Notably, in the history of war, the most successful generals were those who had and took the advice of an intelligent woman. It's a great combination, so long as there is true value and equality.

I don't know if you intended me to take your comment as a platform opportunity, but thank you for reading so far. I trace many of our modern world's problems to this central theme of gender inequality. Feminism is/should not be a men vs women issue. There are patriarchal women like HillaryClinton and MargaretThatcher who hang with those men that practice patriarchal domination (while they use the female-card) without introducing the views and needs of the women they claim to represent. Likewise there are matriarchal men who value the opinion of women and practice matriarchal views like open enquiry, live and let live etc. I know which one I'd like to live in, but we're not there yet. Men and women need to stick together, and not be afraid of the (other) F-word.
Ok, I did a lot of research on ritual sacrifice and abuse of ancient cultures. I am of European heritage myself. So, it appears that pederasty started on the island of Crete it is where the sodatic zone began. We also get the word "creatin" from people that were from Crete. From there is spread to Greece and Rome and around the Equator.

"The Cretan ritual of pederasty that the Greeks adopted is that before his entrance into society as a man, a boy is ritually kidnapped by his approved (from his parents and the boy himself in some cases, courtship) mentor and is taken into the wilderness for two months with hunting and feasting with other pederasty groups."

During the Bronze age (3000 B.C. to 1200 B.C.) the Minoans on the islands of Crete practiced ritual child and human sacrifice and pederasty. The Minoan religion was based off Goddess worship where a younger male figure is always seen with her probably as a consort, son, or worshiper. She was associated with many animals mainly the snake.

The historian and archeologist Rodney Castleden uncovered a sanctuary near Knossos where the remains of a 17-year-old were found sacrificed.
“His ankles had evidently been tied and his legs folded up to make him fit on the table... He had been ritually murdered with the long bronze dagger engraved with a boar's head that lay beside him.”

Analysis of the bones showed the blood had been drained from the upper part of his body, which he probably had his throat cut with the dagger. An earthquake about 1,700 BC destroyed the sanctuary where the boy was found, entombed as well were a priest and priestess and it was likely because of the position of the bodies to the boy, the priestess was who cut his throat to allow the blood to drain. A servant of the sanctuary was also found outside carrying a vessel that likely contained some of the blood.

Cannibalism and child sacrifice might have occurred on the island, during an expedition to Knossos (known as Europe’s oldest city) the British School of Athens, led by Peter Warren excavated a mass grave of sacrifices, particularly children, and unearthed evidence of cannibalism. The mass grave was found in what appeared to be an ordinary ancient Minoan house and became known as “The House of the Sacrificed Children
clear evidence that their flesh was carefully cut away, much in the manner of sacrificed animals. In fact, the bones of slaughtered sheep were found with those of the children... Moreover, as far as the bones are concerned, the children appear to have been in good health. Startling as it may seem, the available evidence so far points to an argument that the children were slaughtered, and their flesh cooked and possibly eaten in a sacrifice ritual made in the service of a nature deity to assure an annual renewal of fertility.

There is a small possibility that the grave was a second burial. Primitive cultures would bury bodies to rid the skeleton of its flesh first, then they would be dug up and reburied in an actual family grave site. My only caveat to this was that it is not the only reported instance of what appears to be sacrifice and the bones of the children made them appear to be in good health at the time of their death.

In Greek mythology, the first King of Crete was Minos, son of Zeus and Europa. Every nine years, he made King Aegeus pick seven young boys and seven young girls to be sent to Daedalus's creation, the labyrinth, to be eaten by the Minotaur in revenge for the death of his son Androgeus during a riot.

So yes you are correct that Crete was a "goddess" centric culture and well look where it got them. So enlightened.

That being said the wicker man narrative of human sacrifice of the Celts is inaccurate and was spread by the Romans. The Celts used bows and arrows as a weapon very rarely and there are no mass graves found yet.

Interesting about the Cathar's I used to believe what you did as well, until I really did a deep dive and read primary sources around the time. The Cathar's practiced the same as the Sabbateans and as the Frankists did later, you know as Crowley said "do as thou wilt." The Cathar's hated the God of the old testament the demiurge, the Catholic church, and in doing so would commit any sin possible.

So yeah I see now where you come from, thank you.
 
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Wow! Those are creepy and disturbing stories, But let's be careful about assuming there is a 'network' of cults under some kind of control. We can imagine, but is there any evidence?

I am a fan of the normal curve - so I'd expect that there are some psychopathic personalities engaged in ritual systems, and, like any cult, they have followers. I have not seen evidence that cults in general are organised or under any kind of overt control.

This is going to seem a bit hard, but the reality is that the fact that such behaviour is expressed in really unremarkable. That is not to diminish its awfulness. We could pick on any number of aberrant acts and find repeated similar instances with no hint of them being a movement.

This is then problem I have had with this show from the outset. The fact that something awful is happening does not mean we should be alarmed beyond our natural empathy for the victims and revulsion at the act/s. This kind of stuff goes on all the time, and has done so for millennia. What should trouble us is the fact that not only is it still happening but that our power elites are not only unmoved, they are often players. We might also bother to be concerned that we live in an age where the means to perpetrate these evils are enabled by technologies we benefit from, and policies enacted in our name.

I come back to something I have said before - what is the call to action? Are we dealing with moral outrage or just moral T&A (titillation & arousal - moral pornography for the morally self-righteous)?

Now you know about it, what are you going to do about it? If nothing, then its moral pornography.
I am trying to investigate it and bring it out so that if enough people believe there evidence that is presented and make a fuss about it, then justice can hopefully be done.

It has happened throughout history from time to time, rarely though.
 
Sorry I don't get this. Can you elucidate?
just saying that some of the MKUltra stuff was what was considered "real psychology" at the time. some of these guys who were into BF skinner and cybernetics stuff thought that you could program the human brain the same way you program a computer. biological robot meaningless universe.

I'm suggesting we have to recognize this misstep and find a way to take into account the reality of these extended consciousness realms.
 
The popularity of the 'occult' and Satanism as an affectation among some 'celebs' is apparent, but does it go to the depths of depravity claimed? For me, so far, I have not been convinced by the claimants or reporters, and I have had neither the motive nor the time to go digging myself.
let's give Ed Opperman some credit... he has some pretty powerful interviews with real police detectives who have worked these cases. ritual satanic abuse is real. we can debate numbers, and we can debate the nature of the evil, but I don't think we can debate the reality of it.

it also seemed to make most sense to me that the "satanic panic" stuff is largely a head fake by those who do not want the reality of the phenomenon to be exposed. this is another pizzagate thing... where pizzagate has been turned into a story about a guy shooting up a pizza restaurant because he read too many internet conspiracy theories.
 
Great conversation ladies and gents. I remain mute on this one because I just don't know anything about it. Save to be cautious of the term 'conspiracy' as a means of categorizing ideas, constructs and hypotheses - as that is an ad hoc - straw man fallacy and a praxis/teaching of screening ideas by means of armchair skepticism. The salient question is, 'Does an idea surpass Ockham's Razor - and therefore merit plurality?'

Demarcation of Skepticism
Once plurality is necessary under Ockham’s Razor, it cannot be dismissed by means of skepticism alone.
 
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Ok, I did a lot of research on ritual sacrifice and abuse of ancient cultures.
That's very interesting John, thanks. One of my reasons for joining Skeptiko is to learn more on subjects that are frequently under-reported or blatantly biased. Inevitably the more one knows, the more bewildering it can get. Perhaps that's why some people prefer to know nothing or go with a limited, simple assumption. I hope I don't do that, or that Skeptiko just represents a(nother) diverse group of ideologists who spend more time defending their turf than elucidating, discussing and finding out what others think. I think the latter, and thankfully it is diverse, we humans are diverse, naturally, and capable of adjusting, though preferably not at dagger-point (metaphor!) because that sets up defensive resistance and reluctance to listen. And I have found the rigour of argument very effective at untangling my rather 'woolly' approach, thanks everyone!

I know there is also the necessity to factually demonstrate a position, but not assume a belief/position and inevitably find info that supports it (seeing what we are trying to find) while dismissing any info that doesn't 'fit', sometimes angrily if ones emotions are overly-dominant. Passion and Reason, we need them both. You're probably not going to like this, but I think we also need to evaluate on another level -one of deep, intuitive perception. The 'knowing' of something through sensing the truth within (it). I think it may reside within what was once called The Mysteries (opposite of Mastery?) I know this is sounding new-age, actually I find the new-agers annoyingly shallow, but we will leave them with their candles and crystals...except of course the candle-flame/crystal-gazing is a vehicle to deeper perception (just don't get stuck studying the instructions) if one is willing and able to penetrate further than thinking "that's it, I've got proof" or "if I just stare/hold it long enough, get the right one" etc I will gain The Truth. I think I'm a spiritual layperson because I avoid either rigid materialist facts or blind loosely-magical belief, so of course, know nothing! But I feel there is a power to this deeper way of knowing truth. I also do feel there is an element of cruelty in humans, and for this we can always find evidence. Why and what to do about it is my interest.

From there is spread to Greece and Rome and around the Equator.
I believe the Minoans were the last large urban matriarchal society and that they were threatened by 'the Aryans' (again the labels, let's say) the Scary-ones who had iron which bests bronze in stabbing potential. I don't know the exact dates for your evidence of child-sacrifice on Crete, but I do think that Archeology is also struggling to extricate itself from the rigid bonds of entrenched materialist thinking for e.g. reluctant to accept other views, yet holding only a very few facts in bone and stone. And who knows for what agenda info is found and presented? The Greeks 'practiced' (invented?) the Man and Boy relationship, not the Minoans, and knowing humans I'm sure it became a cover for sexual exploitation, which is abuse. But already by then a patriarchal preference was setting in, progressing to the Romans where women were out of politics and their needs and values were already eroded.
 
just saying that some of the MKUltra stuff was what was considered "real psychology" at the time. some of these guys who were into BF skinner and cybernetics stuff thought that you could program the human brain the same way you program a computer. biological robot meaningless universe.

I'm suggesting we have to recognize this misstep and find a way to take into account the reality of these extended consciousness realms.
Right, no that's materialist. Definitely.
 
ps John, it has dawned on me that you are the John Brisson and I loved your interview on Diet, just haven't finished it, so couldn't really comment, yet. Diet for me is the origin, if your guts not right you can't function, and has huge significance for all other processes, including thinking, relating, being.
 
kk-7yyy
This episode reminded me of the podcast Sword & Scale and their coverage of the Franklin scandal and alleged activities at Bohemian Grove. It's a two part series and fair warning that you'll need your salt shaker when considering the allegations put forward on the BG story. Very disturbing if true. The Franklin cover-up is a horror story that shakes your faith in humanity. Stayed with me 5 years after these episodes aired. Haven't listened to the follow-up episodes but they are included on the pages of the links below for the curious and not so faint of heart.

Despite the content, S&S has some of the best production I've heard on a podcast.

Franklin Cover-up - Part 1
Franklin Cover-up and Bohemian Grove - Part 2
thx for sharing this. it's important history.
 
If we have reason to remain skeptical with what she is saying, then perhaps there is more than a little truth to Satanic Panic. That doesn't mean pedophilia isn't rampant among society, but it does mean that perhaps her version of it may in fact mostly be a fiction.
Once agains CS you are hitting the point here with lucid clarity.
the real truth is quite the contrary. false memory syndrome is largely a bullshit psychological movement drummed up by some NAMBLA back phony psychologists. the 60 minutes news story that promoted this nonsense has been debunked and shown to be orchestrated.

of course parents panicked. of course there was wrongful accusations... but the larger reality is that preschool children are prime targets for pedophile rings. and a significant number of those participating in those rings are engaged in occult / satanic practices.

I get that this stuff is really, really uncomfortable, but I don't understand how one can accept the reality a wide white spread institutionalized sexual abuse (including documented ritual sexual abuse) within in catholic churches thruout the world... and then accept stuff like the franklin scandal... and Jeffrey Epstein... maybe even pizzagate... and then "oh no... not that... that's satanic panic."

I think the satan thing really throws people... maybe we should say "really bad, misguided people who lost connection with their soul panic"
 
You remind me of the people that are connected to Hoaxtead Research, yet you are better informed them a majority of them, IMO. As a researcher into what you call "satanic panic" did you know Dave McGowan was an atheist? There are people that believe that ritual abuse exists that have nothing to do with Christianity, it has existed since the dawn of time. Even C W Chanter who pushes your "satanic panic" narrative admits there is a word for abuse, torture, etc. in every language and culture. I wont go with Moloch, because of muh bible with you, so I will mention the sacrifice of virgin children and young adults throughout ancient native history. The rampant human sacrifice of the Mayans and Aztec's and even some North American native tribes. It was so rampant for the Aztec's that systematic cultural sponsored cannibalism was occurring as a source of the nations food. Ritual sexual abuse, sacrifice, and cannibalism was a big part of these cultures, the elite were more steeped in it than the citizens, the priest class as you will. What about the pedophilic culture that was practiced by the Greeks, Romans, and the Japanese (samurai)? This culture was sanctioned by governments not so much religion. What about the pedophilia that is/was rampant in Buddhism? What about it being rampant in Jewish, Muslim, and Christian institutions? It is not the average practitioner or member most of the time of these societies or religions where it happens on such a grand scale. It was/is the priest class, the elite, time and time again. It isn't my neighbor down the street that goes to Catholic mass. I guess our institutions are more enlightened now huh?

I do agree that most researchers make grandiose claims about how rampant ritual abuse is. For example they still push debunked narratives like adrenochrome. The narrative that it is happening on every single street corner, on every square inch of the globe. However, most people like you downplay it to the point of non existence. Ask yourself this, did day care and child care molestation's stop happening after the early 1990's (at the very least in most of those "satanic panic" cases molestation's occurred, read The Witch Hunt Narrative By: Ross E. Cheit for context and proof) or are they not widespread reported now because they are labeled as "satanic panic." It is more nefarious than you think. When you look over the evidence provided for the "satanic panic" cases, most seem like at the bare minimum molestation's were rampant and are probably rampant to this day. Is it ritual, part of some grand conspiracy, signs lead to yes for me. However, not in every case or everywhere, it is statistically impossible. There are also potentially false claims and false narratives that are put out to muddy the waters for people like me that try to research as much as I can.

So let us go over the big cases and Ill put what I believe, I want to know what you believe as well:

McMartin: I believe it was likely that ritual abuse was occurring, however, at the bare minimum children were allegedly molested by Ray Ray Buckey.
Franklin: Ritual systematic abuse, pornography distribution, and trafficking was occurring.
The Finders (my case btw): systematic trafficking was occurring, likely ritual abuse was occurring.
Glendale: Sexual abuse and distribution of child pornography was occurring.
West point: Ritual systematic abuse was occurring.
Presidio day care: Ritual systematic abuse was occurring.
Little Rascals - Ritual systematic abuse was likely occurring, at the bare minimum molestation's occurred.
Country Walk - Molestation's occurred.
Jonbenet Ramsey - Ritual systematic abuse and pornography distribution occurred.
West Memphis Three: Likely guilty, also likely not part of a grand conspiracy, but local.
Dutroux affair: Ritual systematic abuse, pornography distribution, and trafficking was occurring.
Hampstead: I am agnostic towards the claims, not enough information.
Epstein: Sexual abuse and trafficking were/are occurring. Unknown if ritual.
Pizzagate: Ritual sexual abuse was possibly occurring, to what extent is unknown. There is some disinfo however, Dupuytren's contracture surgery was why Podesta had scars on his hands, walnut sauce is a real pasta sauce and not adrenochrome. Pizzagate is weaker when compared to other cases, IMO.
well done!
 
... let someone get away with claiming that the abuse was about blackmail, but then later said that the abuse is really just about Luciferian worship.
not sure what you're referring to... please give me a timestamp to reference.

As I recall, I think I'm the one that pushed the crowlan/Luciferian "thing" but I don't think I ever used the term "worship." as you know from listening to the show I don't claim to understand the layout of the extended consciousness land... but if I had to venture a guess, I'd lean towards evil being a quality of the misguided. we all make mistakes. we all go to dark places. sometimes those dark places become way too comfortable and it becomes easier to associate with others experiencing the same... birds of a feather... as below so above.

"Do what thou wilt" seems like a pretty stupid idea to me now, but I do remember how/why I chose it at different times in my life.
 
Ok, I did a lot of research on ritual sacrifice and abuse of ancient cultures. I am of European heritage myself. So, it appears that pederasty started on the island of Crete it is where the sodatic zone began. We also get the word "creatin" from people that were from Crete. From there is spread to Greece and Rome and around the Equator.

"The Cretan ritual of pederasty that the Greeks adopted is that before his entrance into society as a man, a boy is ritually kidnapped by his approved (from his parents and the boy himself in some cases, courtship) mentor and is taken into the wilderness for two months with hunting and feasting with other pederasty groups."

During the Bronze age (3000 B.C. to 1200 B.C.) the Minoans on the islands of Crete practiced ritual child and human sacrifice and pederasty. The Minoan religion was based off Goddess worship where a younger male figure is always seen with her probably as a consort, son, or worshiper. She was associated with many animals mainly the snake.

The historian and archeologist Rodney Castleden uncovered a sanctuary near Knossos where the remains of a 17-year-old were found sacrificed.
“His ankles had evidently been tied and his legs folded up to make him fit on the table... He had been ritually murdered with the long bronze dagger engraved with a boar's head that lay beside him.”

Analysis of the bones showed the blood had been drained from the upper part of his body, which he probably had his throat cut with the dagger. An earthquake about 1,700 BC destroyed the sanctuary where the boy was found, entombed as well were a priest and priestess and it was likely because of the position of the bodies to the boy, the priestess was who cut his throat to allow the blood to drain. A servant of the sanctuary was also found outside carrying a vessel that likely contained some of the blood.

Cannibalism and child sacrifice might have occurred on the island, during an expedition to Knossos (known as Europe’s oldest city) the British School of Athens, led by Peter Warren excavated a mass grave of sacrifices, particularly children, and unearthed evidence of cannibalism. The mass grave was found in what appeared to be an ordinary ancient Minoan house and became known as “The House of the Sacrificed Children
clear evidence that their flesh was carefully cut away, much in the manner of sacrificed animals. In fact, the bones of slaughtered sheep were found with those of the children... Moreover, as far as the bones are concerned, the children appear to have been in good health. Startling as it may seem, the available evidence so far points to an argument that the children were slaughtered, and their flesh cooked and possibly eaten in a sacrifice ritual made in the service of a nature deity to assure an annual renewal of fertility.

There is a small possibility that the grave was a second burial. Primitive cultures would bury bodies to rid the skeleton of its flesh first, then they would be dug up and reburied in an actual family grave site. My only caveat to this was that it is not the only reported instance of what appears to be sacrifice and the bones of the children made them appear to be in good health at the time of their death.

In Greek mythology, the first King of Crete was Minos, son of Zeus and Europa. Every nine years, he made King Aegeus pick seven young boys and seven young girls to be sent to Daedalus's creation, the labyrinth, to be eaten by the Minotaur in revenge for the death of his son Androgeus during a riot.

So yes you are correct that Crete was a "goddess" centric culture and well look where it got them. So enlightened.

That being said the wicker man narrative of human sacrifice of the Celts is inaccurate and was spread by the Romans. The Celts used bows and arrows as a weapon very rarely and there are no mass graves found yet.

Interesting about the Cathar's I used to believe what you did as well, until I really did a deep dive and read primary sources around the time. The Cathar's practiced the same as the Sabbateans and as the Frankists did later, you know as Crowley said "do as thou wilt." The Cathar's hated the God of the old testament the demiurge, the Catholic church, and in doing so would commit any sin possible.

So yeah I see now where you come from, thank you.
great info. next episode #411 is with Dr. Brian Hayden -- Dr. Brian Hayden proposed the concept of an aggrandizer as a personality ..... There is one example of looking at a historic aggrandizing figure ...
1558229251174.png
 
Great conversation ladies and gents. I remain mute on this one because I just don't know anything about it. Save to be cautious of the term 'conspiracy' as a means of categorizing ideas, constructs and hypotheses - as that is an ad hoc - straw man fallacy and a praxis/teaching of screening ideas by means of armchair skepticism. The salient question is, 'Does an idea surpass Ockham's Razor - and therefore merit plurality?'

Demarcation of Skepticism
Once plurality is necessary under Ockham’s Razor, it cannot be dismissed by means of skepticism alone.
Altho some things are/were a deliberate conspiracy..?
Occam's razor and plurality, I think yes

Am I right in thinking women don't often talk on forums at Skeptiko?
And does not this great conversation evidence the benefit of gender plurality?

Still we haven't solved the what to do?
 
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