Science and demonic posession

Brian_the_bard

Lost Pilgrim
Member
#61
Hurmanetar - your speculative connection between tongues and deep dream neural network has the theoretical support of a qualified linguist - my wife.

When I became a christian I joined a charismatic church and after being prayed for to recieve the Holy Spirit, I was told that I could now speak in tongues if I tried. I found this really suspicious because the early disciples just found themselves doing so without having to be told. I tentatively tried it and it sounded kind of like a language to me but I was always doubtful of its validity. One day I thought, "hold on - shouldn't my speech include full stops and capital letters?" I started "speaking" with this in mind and something strange occurred; not only did the "language" change but I recognized two words that came out regularly: "Kurios" and "Adonai" ("Lord" in Greek and Hebrew) I doubt that I was actually speaking those languages but I did find it interesting, especially as those are the two principle languages the Bible was written in.
 

Brian_the_bard

Lost Pilgrim
Member
#63
Brian, I hope my interjection isn't unwelcome, but I'm curious: did you know those words beforehand?
Yes, as a result of studying literature aiming to prove the New World bible translation (The JW version) wrong. However, I had no language related concepts in my mind and was not trying to produce words. It's like deciding to do something but deciding not to control it. The general gist of making language like sounds is there, but any detail just happens without your volition and I wasn't even expecting human words.
 
#64
OK, thanks. I'd be curious to know how your disproving efforts went, but that's probably a topic for another thread (personally, I think that their efforts to excise the concept of hell from the Bible are ... well, unbiblical, even if motivated by good intentions).
 

Brian_the_bard

Lost Pilgrim
Member
#65
OK, thanks. I'd be curious to know how your disproving efforts went, but that's probably a topic for another thread (personally, I think that their efforts to excise the concept of hell from the Bible are ... well, unbiblical, even if motivated by good intentions).
It's not that I'm trying to disprove anything but I would like to know if there are any known facts that oppose the phenomena. The net seems very quiet on this!
 
#66
It's not that I'm trying to disprove anything but I would like to know if there are any known facts that oppose the phenomena. The net seems very quiet on this!
Oh, I meant your disproving efforts re the Jehova's Witnesses' New World translation, but it seems you thought I meant those of this thread (disproving demonic possession)? I am afraid that I'm not much use with the latter, although I understand your desire to hear the opposing view - I'm not well versed in opposing views. Personally, I experience the disembodied voices of what I view as the demoniacal/Satanic, but these beings don't speak in a gutteral voice, and nor are they blasphemous or openly/explicitly irreligious - so I am sympathetic towards your skepticism of the typical "possession character" i.e. a spitting, vomiting, ugly spirit which seems to be operating on a very low intellectual level. The beings I encounter seem to be too self-assured in their power than to waste time on superficial shows of ugliness. But all of that said, I certainly wouldn't rule out "typical" possession cases - there are no doubt more beings out there than those that afflict me! Perhaps you might hit Mediochre up with a PM to see what thoughts he might offer on this thread, since he seems to be an experienced astral traveller, and has met many spirits.
 
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#67
Hurmanetar - your speculative connection between tongues and deep dream neural network has the theoretical support of a qualified linguist - my wife.

When I became a christian I joined a charismatic church and after being prayed for to recieve the Holy Spirit, I was told that I could now speak in tongues if I tried. I found this really suspicious because the early disciples just found themselves doing so without having to be told. I tentatively tried it and it sounded kind of like a language to me but I was always doubtful of its validity. One day I thought, "hold on - shouldn't my speech include full stops and capital letters?" I started "speaking" with this in mind and something strange occurred; not only did the "language" change but I recognized two words that came out regularly: "Kurios" and "Adonai" ("Lord" in Greek and Hebrew) I doubt that I was actually speaking those languages but I did find it interesting, especially as those are the two principle languages the Bible was written in.
I had a similar experience. And I was always skeptical of the whole tongues thing because as you said it didn't seem to be anything like the original impartation of tongues described in Acts.

This raises a question I hadn't thought of before... are there any extra-canonical references to speaking in tongues that occurred before the 1st century AD or in other areas of the world? Or are "tongues" truly unique to the origination of Christianity?
 
S

Sciborg_S_Patel

#68
I had a similar experience. And I was always skeptical of the whole tongues thing because as you said it didn't seem to be anything like the original impartation of tongues described in Acts.

This raises a question I hadn't thought of before... are there any extra-canonical references to speaking in tongues that occurred before the 1st century AD or in other areas of the world? Or are "tongues" truly unique to the origination of Christianity?
IIRC a lot of cultures have people "speaking" in glossolalia.
 
#69
This raises a question I hadn't thought of before... are there any extra-canonical references to speaking in tongues that occurred before the 1st century AD or in other areas of the world? Or are "tongues" truly unique to the origination of Christianity?
It's actually well-known in anthropology that glossolalia is a cross-cultural phenomenon. See Felicitas Goodman, Speaking in Tongues.
 
#70
When I became a christian I joined a charismatic church and after being prayed for to recieve the Holy Spirit, I was told that I could now speak in tongues if I tried. I found this really suspicious because the early disciples just found themselves doing so without having to be told.
I can also vouch for my single experience of glossolalia as occurring absent a charismatic ecclesial context or someone praying for me/laying hands on me.
 
#71
I suffered an ATV accident out in the desert about a year ago and had to be picked up by a helicopter and brought to a hospital, I don't have any memory about an hour before it happened to 3 days later but I was told I was walking around talking gibberish, I suffered a head injury to my right orbital and my jaw. It's a shame it wasn't recorded but then that would have been terribly embarrassing.
 

Brian_the_bard

Lost Pilgrim
Member
#72
Oh, I meant your disproving efforts re the Jehova's Witnesses' New World translation,
Oh, that was a long time ago but it has been proved to my satisfaction at least that the NWT was created because the King James version was too successful in liberating JWs and turning them into orthodox christians. I also recently found out that the translators didn't have a qualification between them in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek.
 
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