Stanton Friedman on Jacques Vallee and UFOs/Consciousness |367|

#21
To put it another way, UFO technology and even the existence of ghosts may rely on properties of nature that are just mind boggling.
 
#22
I wouldn't be surprised if there were aliens who were not exceptionally bright who had access to technology far beyond our best scientific minds.
 
#23
2. Any kind of a plane of consciousness or GOD or an afterlife needs a support system that looks like a brain, but is presently undetectable. So I used the idea of rolled up universes that can unroll or unfurl with a little bit of energy. At the extreme, they can unroll so far that they transmute or change into a big bang. If they fall short, they break up into particles which can become building blocks. If you'v ever looked at organic chemistry, amazing and miraculous stuff happens that leads to biochemistry. I am hijacking neuroscience and saying that a plane of consciousness or an infinite brain can form on its own. But it's not made of carbon, it's made of a large Elemental table of the primary universe. Ours is a secondary universe.
I think the problem with that approach, is that you will end up with something that is far too much like the physical universe we already know about. Made like that, it will be subject to the same sort of rules (mutatis mutandis) as the world we know. If in the other realm, consciousness is fundamental, it simply can't be constructed out of astral neurons that run on astral biochemistry. It may even be a timeless realm! It is best to focus on what a world actually built out of consciousness will look look like.

Remember that if the non-physical is fundamentally about consciousness, in all probability physical reality is too - it is just harder to spot that this is so.

I know what you mean about biochemistry - I took chemistry to PhD level. Michael does too - I always wonder how the chemistry inside the body manages to run for any length of time without drowning in unwanted bi-products of all kinds!

David
 
#24
I think the problem with that approach, is that you will end up with something that is far too much like the physical universe we already know about. Made like that, it will be subject to the same sort of rules (mutatis mutandis) as the world we know. If in the other realm, consciousness is fundamental, it simply can't be constructed out of astral neurons that run on astral biochemistry. It may even be a timeless realm! It is best to focus on what a world actually built out of consciousness will look look like.

Remember that if the non-physical is fundamentally about consciousness, in all probability physical reality is too - it is just harder to spot that this is so.

I know what you mean about biochemistry - I took chemistry to PhD level. Michael does too - I always wonder how the chemistry inside the body manages to run for any length of time without drowning in unwanted bi-products of all kinds!

David
Hi David,
I am so glad that you grasped the basic trick that was using. I was basically carrying the concept of particles and fields to a new level. I also wanted to make the physics constants available to be changed or altered by allowing energy to pass through fissures that exist in the primary space. Our universe would be a secondary space (time). I believe that my theoretical physics construct is useful in-spite of it being vague. Let me give you an example. You sound like you probably know the basics of general relativity. You know it takes a huge amount of mass-energy to generate a gravity field. But watch this. Let's pretend that an alien spaceship lands in your front yard and Jack the grey alien comes out to show you a device. It's a box with a button on it and something that looks like an emitter. He presses the button and the box emits a localized anti-gravity field. After the disbelief wears off, you wonder, how is this possible? Let me explain. The box contains a battery that exists in our space-time (which is a secondary space-time). The battery connects to a circuit that exists in the primary space. The circuit is a series of line segments that, when energized, they unfurl, just slightly, a rolled up space-time that is similar to our space-time. It's more complicated in ways that I don't know how to explain. But the circuit causes a space-time similar to ours to expand into our space-time. In principle, you would have a means to alter the physics locally (perhaps to be used for spacecraft propulsion).
 
#28
Right - and it's also intangible and causally inert. I don't see how it could give rise to the tangible and causally efficacious.
Yes, I think this notion comes directly from physics. They flirt with the idea that consciousness is important, but call it information because it feels safer!

David
 
#29

The word information helps me, in my mind, separate consciousness/awareness from perspective, but it is still basically the same thing. It also reminds me that there's no such thing as limitation as information is not burdened by laws, it just is.

 
#30
In my physics construct, consciousness is emergent in the primary space in the same way it is emergent in biology in the secondary space-time of our universe. But there is a wider range of "molecules" to work with. You do have "astral substance" that can become "astral neurons". You even have an immortal soul that can regenerate the essential information necessary for consciousness even if the physical body is destroyed, but I have not developed the ideas.
 
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#31
great point. I think remote viewing is another example where they used "science" to remove noise from the signal.


I with you on this too. Isn't precognition time travel?
In the spirit of some of the posts in this thread related to the role of “information” in our universe, Id say yes, precognition is a form of time travel …as in accessing information from the future. As a side, Jacques Vallee has a Ted talk on the importance of information in our universe. He believes it is the other side of the same coin … energy on one side … information the other. If Vallee is correct you might imagine a day when we are able to manipulate information as we do energies today. Traveling space – time may not be so far fetched after all.
 
#32
Contrary to what some neuroscientists and philosophers will tell you, science is no where near to telling us how consciousness relates to the physical world. When I have a memory of what the moon looked like five days ago, where does this memory image exist in relation to my current perception of the moon I now see above my head? Both images seem similar but also seem to to be in manifest in entirely different "spaces." Personally, I don't think this is an insoluble metaphysical problem, it's a scientific problem. The explanation that my memory image of the moon is just the firing of neurons in my brain is an insufficient explanation in bridging the gap. If "aliens" have developed the scientific knowledge to bridge the gap between what we call mental space and what we call physical space (...and time), then the world and what we call reality gets a major shake-up. Even the notion of space(time) travel acquires new meaning. Interesting to note that the year that human-kind first took LSD was also the same year that human-kind first went into space. The future may entail a blurring of the distinction between the astronaut and the psychonaut.
 
#33
#34
I agree SF was far too keen on the tools of war, and the idea that we could fight off such aliens is really crazy.


David
I have always thought this when movies about fighting aliens have been made or whenever the idea was alluded too wherever. The idea that we come somehow mount a competent defense against a civilization of beings who have created interstellar travelling technology is ludicrous.
 
#35
I agree, if they wanted to, they could obliterate the planet. It's more likely they would steal our women. Maybe try to communicate with us telepathically.
 
#36
Science gets held on a very high pedestal for some reason. Most of the stuff discovered is common sense, its only one part of the whole. People equate technological advancements with scientific progress......smh
 
#37
Sorry but I got absolutely nothing new from this at all, having heard Stan's lectures over the years.
I agree with whoever it was back thread who said - 'same old, same old'
I was looking forward to what Alex trailed about the consciousness connection which when it came to it, came down to a couple of sentences and Stan being truthfully honest saying something like 'I'm a nuclear physicist - what do I know about that?'
Like others have said here I'm pretty sure that if consciousness is fundamental then it precedes nuclear physics and all other nuts and bolts stuff and Stan is riding the wrong horse.
I'm also rather baffled by the either/or choice of nuts and bolts or non-physical mind stuff.
Even many physical sightings have the objects disappearing into apparent nothingness which suggests it's all a spectrum - mind merges into matter and vice-versa.
I'd really like to hear Alex talk to somebody like Grant Cameron who seems to have 'got this' while still having his finger on the nuts and bolts pulse of UFOs.
See
Tales Of Unity And Oneness That The Government Doesn't Want You To Know
 
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#38
Sorry but I got absolutely nothing new from this at all, having heard Stan's lectures over the years.
I agree with whoever it was back thread who said - 'same old, same old'
I was looking forward to what Alex trailed about the consciousness connection which when it came to it, came down to a couple of sentences and Stan being truthfully honest saying something like 'I'm a nuclear physicist - what do I know about that?'
Like others have said here I'm pretty sure that if consciousness is fundamental then it precedes nuclear physics and all other nuts and bolts stuff and Stan is riding the wrong horse.
I'm also rather baffled by the either/or choice of nuts and bolts or non-physical mind stuff.
Even many physical sightings have the objects disappearing into apparent nothingness which suggests it's all a spectrum - mind merges into matter and vice-versa.
I'd really like to hear Alex talk to somebody like Grant Cameron who seems to have 'got this' while still having his finger on the nuts and bolts pulse of UFOs.
Grant Cameron – Classified documents suggest UFO ... - Skeptiko
..
179. What Happened When the “Father of Stealth” Told His ... - Skeptiko
 
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