Stanton Friedman on Jacques Vallee and UFOs/Consciousness |367|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. KeithA

    KeithA New

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    Hey Alex, this just came up in the NY Times to do with partly To The Stars Academy and seems to be the first official US Gov footage of UFOs
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html

    Also the pilots sighting from the USS Nimitz/USS Princeton of 2004 mentioned by them before
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/unidentified-flying-object-navy.html

    Great comment by Commander Fravor ...
    “I have no idea what I saw,” Commander Fravor replied to the pilot. “It had no plumes, wings or rotors and outran our F-18s.”
    But, he added, “I want to fly one.”


    On the TTSA website the videos - two so far
    https://coi.tothestarsacademy.com (Edit: I got the site wrong first time)

    One vid is to do with the Nimitz/Princeton incident of 2004 but from gleaning the NY Times article to do with the second ... Defense officials declined to release the location and date of the incident.

    Fairly promising I thought. :)

    Edit: Also coverage on BBC News!
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42379749
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
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  2. Alex

    Alex New

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    stunning! thx for posting. it's mind spinning to imagine what's really going on with this controlled disclosure. the culture shapers clearly have some sort of endgame in mind. I wonder what it is.
     
  3. KeithA

    KeithA New

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    I'm still pinching myself. I guess on one level many will think, "whatevva, we know it's true" or "it's just balls" and get on with normal life and their Facebook postings (ha, ha).

    OTOH, it's the scientists now (they should join TTSA) and if this spurs a techno. innovation to get us off the planet and to the stars, then I may gently suggest we need this for survival of humans in a climate-changing world. So many exoplanets have been discovered by the Kepler satellite and maybe (as Hawking has said) we have to get off this one to get a suitable new one out there. He recently gave us 600 years left to survive but I'm not too sure of his predictions. But could this be the reason for disclosure?

    If we can't stop global warming, food chains get in jeopardy, riots, wars, 9 billion or more on the planet - is this techno. revolution just one insurance policy?


    Saying this ... I don't know, I mean this stuff being displayed in the skies is at least "million years older than us techno." and these aliens don't seem to be co-operating. Just running. My view is whatever inside them isn't biological anyway - maybe something AI but alive and conscious. Or maybe biological and they've figured out a way not to get squashed when they do their ridiculous accelerations. As someone with a physics background, I've speculated on some kind of "inertia suppression system" but not new - so have others TBH!

    But that would be great ... getting a human in one of these things we make ourselves and surviving a 100 g acceleration. And getting Commander Fravor above to pilot it!
     
  4. KindaGamey

    KindaGamey Member

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    I have a skeptical buddy that ribs me about UFOs and I thought I'd have a much more enjoyable "I told ya so" moment when disclosure happened, but he seems pretty shell-shocked so I'm not rubbing it in at all. I'm happy for him to finally be on board, really, and I think he's genuinely curious. He just needed an authority to say it was ok to look into it I guess. I saw from his facebook he recently researched The Battle over Nuremberg, Germany. lol. Back to the basics!
     
  5. KeithA

    KeithA New

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    You could almost hear the collective spluttering over their morning coffees as die-hard denialists and many scientists read the newspapers. Some scientists especially must have thought - we've been utterly deceived over decades.
     
  6. Alex

    Alex New

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    you would think, but I have a hard time imagining how/why this would happen.

    and I don't see an "I told you so" moment here as much as an "oh shit, we do these social controller have up their sleeve with the transparent controlled info release."
     
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  7. Larry

    Larry Member

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    Who knows what they have up their sleeve but the latest fox news report made it look pretty goofy with giant tic tacs and cartoonish aliens. It could be the "social controllers" are just trying to desensitize the masses to the reality of alien phenomenon where future reports will debunk themselves with the help of sensationalist medias
     
  8. ghost

    ghost New

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    I figure if an alien spacecraft with antigravity and hyperdrive was observed floating above the surface, the antigravity field would life up surface debris near it, within 10 feet. A superluminal drive might tear apart atoms by changing the speed of light. Using a superluminal drive in an atmosphere will waste a lot of field energy by annihilation air molecules. Lots of radiation, gamma rays.
     
  9. ghost

    ghost New

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    CNN news interviewed today a former government official who claimed that airforce pilots had witnessed strange UFO behavior including 90 degree turns at supersonic velocities. Everybody knows that rockets and jets cannot make maneuvers like that.

    However, an alien technology might be able to effect the Cosmological constant. The Cosmological constant is an additional term in the Einstein equations that has to do with the rate of expansion of spacetime. There would be emitters on the spacecraft that expand the space behind the craft by increasing the Cosmological constant, and contracting space in front by reducing the Cosmological constant. Perhaps alien visitors have such technology.
     
  10. Steve

    Steve Member

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    I think what is amazing is how easy it seems to be to change people's minds. There are so many videos showing so much evidence that has just been laughed off until now. But a couple of mainstream articles and now it's suddenly 'become visible' ?
    How fickle we are.

    God knows what the plan is, but I doubt that it is honourable or honest, I know that's cynical and I hope I'm wrong.

    Hasn't really appeared on any mainstream in the UK? We're too obsessed by Brexit to worry about little things like aliens! ;)
     
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  11. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    LOL - almost true, but Someone above provided a link to a Channel 4 news discussion about this.

    David
     
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  12. KeithA

    KeithA New

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    Re scientists being deceived over decades, maybe only some have been recruited on the program but the rest of science has been shuttered out. And the fear of being a goofy scientist interested in aliens makes this real. There's an interview with Luis Elizondo where he talks of his frustration on the subject and deciding to go public,
    NY Times, Monday, Dec 18, 2017
    https://www.nytimes.com/podcasts/the-daily

    Alex, with the internet now I get that there's so much instant exchange of info. by scientists (eg tele-conferencing, collaboration etc.) and also so much progress in physics with models of the four forces of Nature, cosmological theories etc. that maybe some real progress can be made collaboratively. If they could get people like Ed Witten on board ...
    Did you hear about the UFO materials they have with "amazing properties".
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...cts-not-recognise-us-government-a8117801.html

    Materials science profs. (selected ones) have prob. been studying this material over decades. If it can become legit. for the rest of science to work on this, would be great. I'm guessing there are science meetings soon to be going on to do with this whole UFO subject. Hopefully I'm not innocently naïve.
     
  13. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I think the internet is certainly helping to expose the many areas of science that have been corrupted. One example is the increasing realisation that food containing saturated fat is actually good for people. Huge numbers of people seem to have become aware of this fact, and are returning to butter, cheese etc. Nevertheless, the official guidance is still to cut down on saturated fat. The reason seems to be that the powers that be are simply scared of the backlash if people realise that they were told to do the wrong thing for so many decades.

    I'd guess there were plenty of scientists who knew that UFO's were real - how about radar experts, for example. The problem is with the way big science is managed more like a branch of politics.

    Are you really confident that 'so much progress' is being made in cosmological theories? For example, because of the internet you are able to watch video lectures by Halton Arp:



    He presents evidence that many objects with large red shifts, are in fact associated with galaxies with far more modest red shifts - which implies that red shifts can't be routinely used to infer the distance that the object is away from us. Since Arp was previously well thought of, and was indeed a student of Hubble, don't you think the rest of the astronomical community should have paid rather more attention to his claim? There seem to be just two possibilities:

    1) Despite his eminence, this claim was clearly wrong.

    2) This idea was just too awful to be permitted to be true - because all the really large distances have to be measured using red shift measurements. That would mean that a great many scientific papers that used red shift data to infer distance would suddenly become suspect.

    David
     
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  14. Alex

    Alex New

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    well, maybe just a tad :) I mean, there's nothing new to any of this stuff. We've had material at least since Roswell... and that was 70 years ago.

    moreover, I think it's a big mistake to get caught up in the technology part of this. What does all this mean from a spiritual perspective?
     
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  15. KindaGamey

    KindaGamey Member

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    Yes! Thanks! I love stuff like this. I'm sure I've thrown 'The Big Bang Never Happened' around here enough times that I don't need to link that again. They also discuss the misinterpretation of red shift. Well not to go off on a tangent (too late?), but if you like this sort of thing Neal Adams (comic book artist) has been a pusher of expanding earth theory for a long while now and has done a bunch of videos on it, but recently he popped up with this really nice throwback to Samuel Carey:



    And as mentioned, if the earth was smaller the gravity would need to be much less, which for me is verified by the electric universe folks when they show how dinosaurs just wouldn't be able to exist in the gravity of today:

    part 2.

    As I was typing this my curiosity got the better of me and I dove into a skeptic reddit to see what they think of this UFO thing. Some actually raised an eyebrow, some are doubling-down on manifesting their own (materialist) reality. I don't see how that's any superior to the woo-woo version. Seems way less fun: https://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments/7ksf94/director_of_pentagon_ufo_study_says_we_are_not/
     
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  16. KindaGamey

    KindaGamey Member

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    I miss the days when people used to eat hats and crows when they're wrong


    I felt more like this guy, finally justified for being a 'weirdo'
     
  17. KeithA

    KeithA New

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    But there will be a technology, a physics we haven't got yet. But it may get us only so far if there's more to these objects than the physical.
     
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  18. KeithA

    KeithA New

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    Well, I mean the big bang which definitely happened as shown by 1. the prediction of light element abundances (elements produced during first moments match for theory/experimental meas.) 2. Accelerated expansion of the universe. 3. Cosmic microwave background 4. 13.7 billion year old universe meas. 4. Early forming galaxies you can actually see with the Hubble 5. the rereation of early universe formation at the RHIC particle collider (obs. of quark-gluon plasma).
     
  19. ghost

    ghost New

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    There was a report by a navy pilot stating that he observed a UFO flying chaotic lly over a body of water. When the navy fighter plane approached, the UFO took off at supersonic speed. It is hard to believe that UFOs/alien spacecraft can't fly straight. It just makes more sense to me that an alien craft can experience a control system malfunction.
     
  20. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Yes, but the reason you know they are early is because of their red shifts - you really should listen to Halton Arp's lectures!

    I don't know too much about the element abundances, but were these unexplained back in the days when Fred Hoyle supported the steady state theory?

    As regards the cosmic ray background, it has always seemed to me that the fact that the universe has a finite temperature, and therefore emits black body radiation corresponding to that temperature, isn't very surprising, and can't prove anything specific.

    The loss of the ability to make correct distance measurements surely can't be anything but catastrophic to cosmology.

    I mean, logically you would expect astronomy to take the very greatest care to explore anything that might cause one to doubt the application of Hubble's law, or the issue of whether effects other than the Doppler effect could give rise to red shifts. Politically you would expect exactly the opposite - just bury potentially bad news!

    I don't have the references to hand, but the whole debate got quite interesting, because initially the issue was just about statistics - did more red shift objects appear to lie close to a much closer galaxy than would be expected by chance. A paper was published concluding that the association was at chance levels. However Arp's group countered by pointing out that the number of galaxies in most parts of the sky was too great to perform this test properly, and that it was essential to pick areas of the sky that have fewer galaxies. Using those areas of the sky the distribution is not at chance levels.

    However, if you watch Apr's lectures, it is clear that he had further evidence of the connection between high red shift objects and a central low red shift galaxy. He shows endless pictures in which these objects actually appear embedded in streams of gas connected to the central galaxy! (Note that if these objects are reassigned to be local, they cease to be super-massive, because the size of an object in the sky depends on its distance.....)

    Incidentally, this issue may bear on the UFO question, because it may be that the universe is much smaller than currently assumed.

    David
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017

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