Steve Briggs, Took His MBA to the Himalayan Yogis And Discovered… |452|

#21
...because I truly believe that denying a person their free will is evil.
I understand this view and then I consider, what if the free will of another is to stalk another? What if, in their effort to achieve their goal of "gaining the consent"... (unlimited in their efforts to achieve this goal, including force) of someone who has told them over and over to "go away, leave me alone,"... their effort has risen to the level of threats of violence, even to others like the loved one's of this someone, unless "his will" is achieved?

I give a specific example because this very "thing" happened to my step-daughter and it was her mother (my wife) and myself who were also threatened. We stopped him. He is now in jail. He may be in jail for a long time. We have also prepared in every way you can imagine (legally and protectively) to ensure his free will, which appears an expression of evil, will be met by a counter will, our will not to be a victim of his will.

My point is that in this world where things are not black and white, it doesn't seem helpful to make blanket statements such as "...because I truly believe that denying a person their free will is evil." Isn't it more complicated than that?
 
#22
There is definitely something odd at the end of that podcast!

I was quite taken by Steve's idea that evil is taking away other people's free will.

David
That stood out to me as well. That’s an Interesting concept. But I suppose it might be that many of what we might label as non-evil actions take away from a persons free will as well? I’m trying to think of examples. There’s lots of grey area here I think.
 
#23
The father stalking his daughter was attempting to deny his daughter of free will. There are laws that deal with this sort of thing, which is why he's in prison. Society/lawmakers determined that this behavior was unacceptable (evil). In prison, the man has been stripped of his free will because he abused his free will to harm another. Though the court stripped the man of his free will, I don't think anyone would call that evil. He lost his right to free will by attempting to deprive someone else of theirs.

This opens a big can of worms. It gets into the paradigm of perpetrator and victim. These difficult relationships generally have a past; often from another lifetime. Balancing the karmic ledger between two individuals is often agreed upon on a soul level before the individuals incarnate. This does not make wrong actions any more right, and certainly courts of law cannot go around judging guilt by taking into consideration karmic agreements. I only bring this up because these types of tangled relationships generally have a past that needs to be rectified. I realize I'm opening myself up to some push back, but that's ok. For our universe to be just, nothing happens by chance.
 
#24
There is a significant risk involved in exploring darker dimensions. I highly discourage going there out of curiosity, to fulfill a wish, solicit support, or for any other reason. Dark beings will not bother a person unless that person has a history with the being, invites contact, or opens their awareness to the realm.
 
#25
I understand this view and then I consider, what if the free will of another is to stalk another? What if, in their effort to achieve their goal of "gaining the consent"... (unlimited in their efforts to achieve this goal, including force) of someone who has told them over and over to "go away, leave me alone,"... their effort has risen to the level of threats of violence, even to others like the loved one's of this someone, unless "his will" is achieved?

I give a specific example because this very "thing" happened to my step-daughter and it was her mother (my wife) and myself who were also threatened. We stopped him. He is now in jail. He may be in jail for a long time. We have also prepared in every way you can imagine (legally and protectively) to ensure his free will, which appears an expression of evil, will be met by a counter will, our will not to be a victim of his will.

My point is that in this world where things are not black and white, it doesn't seem helpful to make blanket statements such as "...because I truly believe that denying a person their free will is evil." Isn't it more complicated than that?

Chester, I thank you for your insights. Allow me to give a more complete definition of evil, as I see it. Evil is denying a person their right to free will so long as that person has not compromised another individual's free will.
 
#26
Chester, I thank you for your insights. Allow me to give a more complete definition of evil, as I see it. Evil is denying a person their right to free will so long as that person has not compromised another individual's free will.
Yeah, but to use your ealier example, a father stalking a daughter to attempt to deny her her free will is evil, but tracking an underage daughter to keep her safe is considered good - so now we get:

Evil is denying a person their right to free will so long as that person has not compromised another individual's free will, or that person is a child and the action is intended to be protective.

When we consider mentally defective daughters, the definition gets even more convoluted.

David
 
#27
Yeah, but to use your ealier example, a father stalking a daughter to attempt to deny her her free will is evil, but tracking an underage daughter to keep her safe is considered good - so now we get:

Evil is denying a person their right to free will so long as that person has not compromised another individual's free will, or that person is a child and the action is intended to be protective.

When we consider mentally defective daughters, the definition gets even more convoluted.

David
If we broaden the lens we'll find that the definition has merit. Not saying its perfect. If I recall, on Alex's show, I referred to the evil definition as 'my definition.' Are there exceptions? Of course.

In the thousands of years old Vedic system of India, the scriptures say that a child's actions are the karmic responsibility of the parents until the child becomes an adult. That's a stretch, I'm sure for many. if we want to pick that premise apart we can argue, what constitutes an adult? There's no limit to what the intellect can concoct, including mine which proposed that evil is denying another free will...

A famous Indian saint once said, 'the intellect cuts things apart, the heart sews them back together.'
 
#28
If we broaden the lens we'll find that the definition has merit. Not saying its perfect. If I recall, on Alex's show, I referred to the evil definition as 'my definition.' Are there exceptions? Of course.
Well it would be nice to get closer to a crisp definition, or perhaps to go in the other direction and say evil can't be clearly separated from good near its boundary.

I mean, when the Vedic scriptures refer to a child, that very term is vague - for example the age of consent varies widely from one country to another, as does (I think) the age of criminal responsibility.

David
 
#29
Well it would be nice to get closer to a crisp definition, or perhaps to go in the other direction and say evil can't be clearly separated from good near its boundary.

I mean, when the Vedic scriptures refer to a child, that very term is vague - for example the age of consent varies widely from one country to another, as does (I think) the age of criminal responsibility.

David
If we really widen the lens so that we take in the full panorama of human life including multiple incarnations and such, one could say that evil is an illusion, a maya that exists only so long as we live in a state of separation from divine reality. It's only in the state of duality that we experience the actions of someone as evil.

For those whose reality is Unity, the harm I do to another is the harm I do to myself in equal measure. Therefore a person in Unity would never harm another. Every hurtful action that comes our way has been initiated by us at some point in time. If that were not the case, the universe wouldn't be a just place. Evil amounts to a process of balancing the karmic ledger which is crucial for all of us if we wish to move on to a higher plane of existence.

My guru was fond of saying, "Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness."
 
#30
If we really widen the lens so that we take in the full panorama of human life including multiple incarnations and such, one could say that evil is an illusion, a maya that exists only so long as we live in a state of separation from divine reality. It's only in the state of duality that we experience the actions of someone as evil.

For those whose reality is Unity, the harm I do to another is the harm I do to myself in equal measure. Therefore a person in Unity would never harm another. Every hurtful action that comes our way has been initiated by us at some point in time. If that were not the case, the universe wouldn't be a just place. Evil amounts to a process of balancing the karmic ledger which is crucial for all of us if we wish to move on to a higher plane of existence.

My guru was fond of saying, "Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness."
So do you think that is the ultimate answer to Alex's quest to understand evil?

Evil doesn't exist, it is just an illusory concept based on our current separation from divine reality
David
 
#31
So do you think that is the ultimate answer to Alex's quest to understand evil?



David
David, if I were in the ultimate state of Enlightenment, i might be able to answer that question. My understanding is that there are higher states of consciousness that the human isn't capable of attaining. From what I've learned the game goes on for eternity. Because the universe(s) are expanding, the potential for expansion of consciousness exists also. I don't think there's ever an end to the game unless one decides they've had enough and decides to merge back into the ocean of consciousness, the Oneness of All.
 
#32
David, if I were in the ultimate state of Enlightenment, i might be able to answer that question. My understanding is that there are higher states of consciousness that the human isn't capable of attaining. From what I've learned the game goes on for eternity. Because the universe(s) are expanding, the potential for expansion of consciousness exists also. I don't think there's ever an end to the game unless one decides they've had enough and decides to merge back into the ocean of consciousness, the Oneness of All.
Well let's leave the ultimate questions. What do you think about people like Jurgen Ziewe and Cyrus Cirkpatrick, who both reckon there are a vast number of places that people can go after death, many of which are somewhat like life on Earth?

One of my problems is to get a clear picture of what possibilities there are after death for the average guy - not evil, but nowhere near perfect either!

David
 
#33
David, if I were in the ultimate state of Enlightenment, i might be able to answer that question. My understanding is that there are higher states of consciousness that the human isn't capable of attaining. From what I've learned the game goes on for eternity. Because the universe(s) are expanding, the potential for expansion of consciousness exists also. I don't think there's ever an end to the game unless one decides they've had enough and decides to merge back into the ocean of consciousness, the Oneness of All.
I think this idea lines up pretty well with the afterlife research that I’m familiar with. We are here currently, having a human experience. Most of our experiences as a human do not comprise only one life. But lives may be lived (as human) in other dimensions, hell maybe even other planets. According to UFOlogist Grant Cameron, the most commonly seen “alien” during close encounters based upon questionaires, are humans. The greys being the second most commonly experienced. Of course these “humans” could be avatars or from another dimension entirely, but they could very well live on another planet as well. They could also be simply projections into our consciousness..

At any rate, I like what you said. We’re here currently doing the human thing, locally. And I think there’s millions of other “places” or dimensions that consciousness can partake in as a human in form. But that this is a VERY small portion of the larger game being played
 
#34
I think this idea lines up pretty well with the afterlife research that I’m familiar with. We are here currently, having a human experience. Most of our experiences as a human do not comprise only one life. But lives may be lived (as human) in other dimensions, hell maybe even other planets. According to UFOlogist Grant Cameron, the most commonly seen “alien” during close encounters based upon questionaires, are humans. The greys being the second most commonly experienced. Of course these “humans” could be avatars or from another dimension entirely, but they could very well live on another planet as well. They could also be simply projections into our consciousness..

At any rate, I like what you said. We’re here currently doing the human thing, locally. And I think there’s millions of other “places” or dimensions that consciousness can partake in as a human in form. But that this is a VERY small portion of the larger game being played
For what it's worth, our non human guide once told us: "about 60% of life forms in other parts of the Universe are anatomically similar to humans. The chakra system has proven to be an effective one for the evolution of beings, both on earth and elsewhere.”
 
#35
If we really widen the lens so that we take in the full panorama of human life including multiple incarnations and such, one could say that evil is an illusion, a maya that exists only so long as we live in a state of separation from divine reality. It's only in the state of duality that we experience the actions of someone as evil.

For those whose reality is Unity, the harm I do to another is the harm I do to myself in equal measure. Therefore a person in Unity would never harm another. Every hurtful action that comes our way has been initiated by us at some point in time. If that were not the case, the universe wouldn't be a just place. Evil amounts to a process of balancing the karmic ledger which is crucial for all of us if we wish to move on to a higher plane of existence.

My guru was fond of saying, "Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness."
This is a profound post, for me, in multiple specific places.

The first starts at the beginning -
"If we really widen the lens so that we take in the full panorama of human life including multiple incarnations and such, one could say that evil is an illusion, a maya that exists only so long as we live in a state of separation from divine reality. It's only in the state of duality that we experience the actions of someone as evil.

For those whose reality is Unity, the harm I do to another is the harm I do to myself in equal measure. Therefore a person in Unity would never harm another."

This is what Grant Cameron was attempting to get across to Alex a few months back, but struggled to articulate it and Alex was able to pounce on Grant.

The end of your posts explains why it could be said that Grant and Alex were both right. - "My guru was fond of saying, 'Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness.'" I tried to make that point when this was being discussed but didn't have the words. From a different "state of consciousness" comes a different point of view and that both states can (and do along with many others) exist simultaneously. Alex and Grant were arguing (validly) from two different "points of view" determined by the context of the state from which the point of view resides.

And then this part of your post - "Every hurtful action that comes our way has been initiated by us at some point in time. If that were not the case, the universe wouldn't be a just place. Evil amounts to a process of balancing the karmic ledger which is crucial for all of us if we wish to move on to a higher plane of existence."

When I consider this from "the primary level of my individuated being" (which I refer to as "the soul") and consider the soul to be, as Alex suggested, "a soul journey," it just makes sense that "the karmic ledger" has multiple lifetimes available to achieve that balance. In 2012 I chose to take the position that I was responsible for every single thing that happens in my life. I shared this "new approach" with friends and they thought I was nuts. But I can say, today, it has been the best single assumption I ever adopted.

Then I read this -
I don't think there's ever an end to the game unless one decides they've had enough and decides to merge back into the ocean of consciousness, the Oneness of All.
- YES! I call it "soul suicide." I see this end as that which Right Hand Path ends in. I have always held that this has to be ultimately a choice made by each soul... a choice available but not mandatory by any independent agency or "rule set."
 
#36
I think this idea lines up pretty well with the afterlife research that I’m familiar with. We are here currently, having a human experience. Most of our experiences as a human do not comprise only one life. But lives may be lived (as human) in other dimensions, hell maybe even other planets. According to UFOlogist Grant Cameron, the most commonly seen “alien” during close encounters based upon questionaires, are humans. The greys being the second most commonly experienced. Of course these “humans” could be avatars or from another dimension entirely, but they could very well live on another planet as well. They could also be simply projections into our consciousness..

At any rate, I like what you said. We’re here currently doing the human thing, locally. And I think there’s millions of other “places” or dimensions that consciousness can partake in as a human in form. But that this is a VERY small portion of the larger game being played
Well let's leave the ultimate questions. What do you think about people like Jurgen Ziewe and Cyrus Cirkpatrick, who both reckon there are a vast number of places that people can go after death, many of which are somewhat like life on Earth?

One of my problems is to get a clear picture of what possibilities there are after death for the average guy - not evil, but nowhere near perfect either!
 
#38
David, I agree with that there are many places a soul can go after death. We tracked my father's soul after his death. He was confused for a time because during his final years his health failed and the drugs he was taking in the care facility dulled his awareness enormously, but with the help of benevolent beings he eventually came around. He decided, with the help of his guides, that returning to earth would not provide the needed lessons and so he opted for a place (planet?) that I don't even know the name of. There is abundant life in our galaxy and beyond. The possibilities are great, but I suspect most souls choose to return to earth, if for no other reason than familiarity or habit... or possibly that earth offers unique opportunities for advancement. These are only guesses. I can't say from personal experience or from what I've learned from my gurus/guides.
 
#39
David, I agree with that there are many places a soul can go after death. We tracked my father's soul after his death. He was confused for a time because during his final years his health failed and the drugs he was taking in the care facility dulled his awareness enormously, but with the help of benevolent beings he eventually came around. He decided, with the help of his guides, that returning to earth would not provide the needed lessons and so he opted for a place (planet?) that I don't even know the name of. There is abundant life in our galaxy and beyond. The possibilities are great, but I suspect most souls choose to return to earth, if for no other reason than familiarity or habit... or possibly that earth offers unique opportunities for advancement. These are only guesses. I can't say from personal experience or from what I've learned from my gurus/guides.
I think there’s a lot of truth in this. There are an infinite number of potential afterlife states depending upon ones “vibration” and even largely dependent upon their beliefs and biases. I think the reincarnation data/evidence is very convincing to anybody who looks at it with an open mind. I’m not sure how many of us only live one life on Earth. Presumably some do? Who knows. I’d prefer to think that I’m not coming back.

The question of what happens to us after we die is a tricky one. It really does seem that we can come back to Earth, move to other Earth like realms or dimensions, or move to “higher” more ethereal and thought responsive realms. Based on my view of the evidence it also seems that some, through guilt, are quite capable of setting up their own personal private (temporary) Hell.

What we also need to consider is our apparent multidimensional nature. William Buhlman, certain afterlife researchers, and even Yogis like Yogananda are adamant that we are multidimensional beings. Graham Nichols (prominent OBEr) has claimed that he has encountered his dead father during his astral travels (this is not uncommon btw) who seems to be living a pretty normal physical life which appears roughly as ours does here on Earth, but that he has ALSO reincarnated here on Earth, in Russia and is now a boy. Who knows if that particular story is true, he seems quite credible to me, but it’s just one story representative of a fairly common narrative amongst like minded folk in the field and amongst many experiencers.

If you spend time on astral projection forums or listen to some of the more prominent OBErs, what they say often is that they are often projected into another realm, as themselves, same body and everything, and that they feel that they are plugging into a life that they are already living on another dimension but that our local selves HERE are completely unaware of. I’m not really sure how any of this plays into the question of what happens to us after death, but it needs to be considered, Even if we can currently make little sense of it. Some of the best channeled information (IMO) says a lot of this stuff as well. The Seth Material is always talking about our multidimensional selves. I take Channeled material
with a grain of salt but when it’s profoundly intelligent, sensical, and confirmatory, I take notice.

This video is only 4 minutes but it’s an important and brief summation.

 
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#40
I think there’s a lot of truth in this. There are an infinite number of potential afterlife states depending upon ones “vibration” and even largely dependent upon their beliefs and biases. I think the reincarnation data/evidence is very convincing to anybody who looks at it with an open mind. I’m not sure how many of us only live one life on Earth. Presumably some do? Who knows. I’d prefer to think that I’m not coming back.

The question of what happens to us after we die is a tricky one. It really does seem that we can come back to Earth, move to other Earth like realms or dimensions, or move to “higher” more ethereal and thought responsive realms. Based on my view of the evidence it also seems that some, through guilt, are white capable of setting up their own personal private (temporary) Hell.

What we also need to consider is our apparent multidimensional nature. William Buhlman, certain afterlife researchers, and even Yogis like Yogananda are adamant that we are multidimensional beings. Graham Nichols (prominent OBEr) has claimed that he has encountered his dead father during his astral travels (this is not uncommon btw) who seems to be living a pretty normal physical life which appears roughly as ours does here on Earth, but that he has ALSO reincarnated here on Earth, in Russia and is now a boy. Who knows if that particular story is true, he seems quite credible to me, but it’s just one story representative of a fairly common narrative amongst like minded folk in the field and amongst many experiencers.

If you spend time on astral projection forums or listen to some of the more prominent OBErs, what they say often is that they are often projected into another realm, as themselves, same body and everything, and that they feel that they are plugging into a life that they are already living on another dimension but that our local selves HERE are completely unaware of. I’m not really sure how any of this plays into the question of what happens to us after death, but it needs to be considered, Even if we can currently make little sense of it.

This video is only 4 minutes but it’s an important and brief summation.

Good for Buhlman. He puts a lot into 2 1/2 minutes. If I recall, after a previous interview with Alex, I proposed an idea that humanity's DNA has been dumbed down. This process, according to my guide, effectively stripped people of awareness that we are multi-dimensional beings.
 
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