Suzanne Giesemann medium readings provide evidence of love and guidance |334|

[Sciborg_S_Patel]

That is not really fair. For example, homosexuals were stigmatised by the Church, even if they remained monogamous, and were therefore not liable to pass on infections! Likewise, there was a period when efforts were made to stamp out masturbation in extraordinary and cruel ways. Think also of the fate of women who became pregnant out of wedlock.

David

I agree with the intent of your comment but technically seems like all Jim was saying was that scientific advances may have more to do with our current views of sex and how the differences between then & now.

On the wider acceptance of a spectrum - I'd say it's a combination of many things, part of which includes pluralism (and reduction) in religious beliefs, scientific advances that Jim mentions, increased sense of individual rights, etc.

 

[whitehouseufo]

Once again in this show, we head down the evil boogyman rabbit hole. Time to have some discussion with people who might support the oneness view of the universe rather than oneness which somehow spirals down to a dualistic world of God versus evil. You had on Julia Assante, who did state that in all the work she had done with "evil"(including exorcisms). She concluded there was no evil but just the belief in evil. I would also suggest Dr. Stephen LaBerge and his 41 years of lab work at Stanford where the evil and hideous shadow figures show up often.

or someone like Mary Cosimano who leads many of the high-dose psilocybin sessions at John Hopkins University (which has been going on for 2 decades) where they run up against the evil boogeyman all the time and teach people to welcome it

The discussion of evil and how it fits into ultimate reality is important, and there are people out there who can present the oneness view.

 

[gabriel]

She concluded there was no evil but just the belief in evil.

When I was a child the "Moors Murders" happened to kids of a similar age. A couple abducted, tortured, raped and murdered city children like ourselves and buried them on remote moorland. An entire generation who had hitherto roamed free as their predecessors had, woke up to a different world, one in which parents said "no" and "can't" and everyone looked over their shoulder. It was a shift in national consciousness that has remained for the last fifty years. Evil does not have to be spectacular and grotesque and wear a Devil mask, it's frequently banal and stupid, like the snapshots of camp guards involved in horseplay while the ovens of Auschwitz and Dachau turn millions into smoke.

Whatever you want to call that thing, it amounts to the same. A supreme denial of humanity and an embrace with absolute cynicism.

 

[Alex]

Once again in this show, we head down the evil boogyman rabbit hole. Time to have some discussion with people who might support the oneness view of the universe rather than oneness which somehow spirals down to a dualistic world of God versus evil.

I'm very open to the oneness... all the way to the edge of non-duality (but not over the edge :)), but you gotta acknowledge that this reality/worldview leaves no room for your research/interests in UFO and geopolitics.

The yogis have been telling us for thousands of years that "all is Brahman, Brahman is all," but most of us can't really relate to this level of clarity about our illusionary existence :) so... (see next post)

 

[Alex]

... continuing...

When I was a child the "Moors Murders" happened to kids of a similar age. A couple abducted, tortured, raped and murdered city children like ourselves and buried them on remote moorland. An entire generation who had hitherto roamed free as their predecessors had, woke up to a different world, one in which parents said "no" and "can't" and everyone looked over their shoulder. It was a shift in national consciousness that has remained for the last fifty years.

agreed. unfortunately there are many examples like this.

Question for WhitehouseUFO:
1. do you believe there are beings beyond this physical reality?
2. do you believe there has ever been a case of genuine medium communication or genuine NDE encounters with the spirit world?
-- I think you can see where I'm going... all this stuff requires jumping into the duality you were railing against. and once there we can't jump back over to the non-dual camp in order to escape the uncomfortable reality of evil.

 

[Sciborg_S_Patel]

The yogis have been telling us for thousands of years that "all is Brahman, Brahman is all,"

....while living in proximity to an incredibly brutal caste system in a society of questionable human rights beyond that - women as property, factional wars, child labor...

 

[Alex]

....while living in proximity to an incredibly brutal caste system in a society of questionable human rights beyond that - women as property, factional wars, child labor...

no denying any of that... no easy answers... no free passes for the sage on the stage.

but all signs point toward the reality of human consciousness (as opposed to bio robots in a meaningless universe) and the reality of consciousness transformation (awakening/enlightenment).

 

[Steve]

I'm very open to the oneness... all the way to the edge of non-duality (but not over the edge :))

What's holding you back Alex?

 

[Sciborg_S_Patel]

no denying any of that... no easy answers... no free passes for the sage on the stage.

but signs point toward the reality of human consciousness (as opposed to bio robots in a meaningless universe) and the reality of consciousness transformation (awakening/enlightenment).

I'd agree on the first, though perhaps not so strongly ("all signs").

The latter, if we're willing to say Awakening and Enlightenment can mean different things to different people....maybe....

 

[Alex]

What's holding you back Alex?

There is no one here to answer, only the illusion of self typing on the illusion of keyboard :)

I just don't see how anyone can find kinda stuff useful. Seems to me that life has some purpose and meaning beyond what non-dual silliness will allow.

“There is only one really serious philosophical problem,and that is suicide" -- Camus

This is not to make light of the severe pain and suffering that causes some to take their life, but point out the silliness of overthinking the obvious.

 

[Alex]

I'd agree on the first, though perhaps not so strongly ("all signs").

The latter, if we're willing to say Awakening and Enlightenment can mean different things to different people....maybe....

edited :)

agreed re second point.

 

[Steve]

There is no one here to answer, only the illusion of self typing on the illusion of keyboard :)

LOL. Very good.

Isn't Buddha at the Gas Pump (i.e. Rick )mainly about this teaching?

I get what you mean above, but is that the view of all non-dualists? I'm no expert but I don't think it is. I listen to most (6/10?)of Rick's interviews, and what you are describing is not typical of most of his guests that I hear. Although there have been a couple - and in my view they're full of it. One British guy drove me mad. :) Maybe I don't understand.

I think that we are all one, that everything we see is ------((s)he who cannot be named in case David B's reading this, don't want to upset him) ;). I can see a way that Rupert Spira (not sure if I'm a fan)and Bernardo Kastrup (definitely am) are both 'thinking' along the right lines without resorting to whatever Camus was thinking.(Alan Watts said it too). I don't get it, it sounds dodgy in any case! I think that maybe Rupert & co have found part of what's true, but think that they've found the truth. Maybe it is and it's simply that they're further along the journey than I am? 'The truth' is probably both much simpler and much more complicated that we know.

 

[Mediochre]

I just don't see how anyone can find kinda stuff useful. Seems to me that life has some purpose and meaning beyond what non-dual silliness will allow.

Meaning defined by who, for what purpose, and why should you care? Let's say one day you find out the data says definitevely that the purpose of life is to murder everyone else and become the only living thing left with teh meaning of the universe being to find the strongest , most adaptable entity in existence. Would you do it? If not then what does that say about the concept of the universe having meaning if you would just reject it if it isn't something you like? If yes, what does that say about your concept that we're not biological robots but have free will if you're just going to follow the universes programming anyways?

I understand that there is no inherent meaning or purpose to anything at all and it's incredibly useful. It removes all external stress because I know there's no obligation to do anything including survive, leaving me free to do whatever I want without fear of "wasting my life." It also means I need to take responsibility for all my actions because there's no mystical sky wizard or karmic reaction I can blame if I don't like how things are. I don't have to automatically hate or like people because of some nonsense stereotyping of them being good or evil. Instead I have to actually talk to them to find out who they are, what they believe and why they believe it. I also then have to acknowledge that if someone is doing something I don't like, no matter how horrible or gruesome, I don't have to just say they're evil as conventional objective morality would dictate. I can work to understand why it is they chose the path they did and why they thought that doing those things was the best thing for them to do at the time. I also am forced to acknowledge that I'm no different than them, if I were to go down a similar path I too would likely commit the same atrocities they did. I can't hate someone who's ultimately not any different than myself without being a hypocrite. There can be no moral highground without morality.

The idea of complete neutrality is infinitely more useful than duality and that's probably because it's actually logical and mathematically sound.

 

[Alex]

LOL. Very good.

Isn't Buddha at the Gas Pump (i.e. Rick )mainly about this teaching?

I get what you mean above, but is that the view of all non-dualists? I'm no expert but I don't think it is. I listen to most (6/10?)of Rick's interviews, and what you are describing is not typical of most of his guests that I hear. Although there have been a couple - and in my view they're full of it. One British guy drove me mad. :) Maybe I don't understand.

I think you're right... most non-dual folks find a comfortable middle ground. but it's a tricky needle to thread and a lot of differences of opinion emerge.

I think that we are all one, that everything we see is ------((s)he who cannot be named in case David B's reading this, don't want to upset him) ;). I can see a way that Rupert Spira (not sure if I'm a fan)and Bernardo Kastrup (definitely am) are both 'thinking' along the right lines without resorting to whatever Camus was thinking.(Alan Watts said it too). I don't get it, it sounds dodgy in any case! I think that maybe Rupert & co have found part of what's true, but think that they've found the truth. Maybe it is and it's simply that they're further along the journey than I am? 'The truth' is probably both much simpler and much more complicated that we know.

I think we're very much in snyc here... and I would only pull out the Camus thing if a debate reached defcon 4 or above :)

Rupert is an interesting guy. Hope to have him on some day.

 

[Alex]

The idea of complete neutrality is infinitely more useful than duality and that's probably because it's actually logical and mathematically sound.

that's a big claim.

 

[Mediochre]

that's a big claim.

It's also one that never falls into double-think pitfalls like claiming to value life while simultaneously committing genocide like duality proveably, repeatedly, historically does. Good and evil are just perceptions of things that you like and dislike respectively. That is a fact. It doesn't matter what the degree that you like or dislike something is, it doesn't change the fact that it's just your personal opinion based on your personal life expereince.

 

[Mediochre]

that's a big claim.

For the math, a single variable cannot be filled with two different constants at the same time.

x = 1 = 2 is irrational because 1 does not equal 2

however multiple variables can be filled with the same constant.

x = y = 1 is vaild as x = 1 and y =1 therefore x does equal y

The concepts of good and evil can be represented either as constants or variables but in both cases it means that they can't be limiting factors. Which means they can't exist. I've actually done this proof before on this forum.

A group advocating free speech while advocating censorship of people who dissagree with them are irrational for example.

 

[Mediochre]

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” ~C.S Lewis

 

[Dmitch]

I've been following this thread. I didn't read the entire transcript, but most of it. I have listened to the Batgap interview and follow Suzanne on the FB. I believe she is the real deal. I disagree with those who say she was not an appropriate guest for this podcast show. I'd like to present a defense of Suzanne's response in light of getting to know her style a bit. She does keep to a very simple message of we are spritual beings having an earthly experience. We are aspects of the source and that source is love. It really is a non dual message. You have to read between the lines.

Yeah it seems contradictory that she embraces her military career and espouses a message which seems incongruent with her past. However in her mind, and I understand that, everything here on earth is meant to occur for growth and learning. We are all in various stages of a spiritual process. This is what her channeled spiritual guides tell her. By the way, I may have missed it but Alex never asked her or brought up Sanaya. For me, Sanaya is the most unique quality of Suzanne's gift. We know she is a medium. Did anyone ask her about her daily communication with a group of ascended masters? Suzanne is also a highly gifted channeler. Sanaya presents a short essay everyday channeled in writing posted on FB and also verbally through Suzanne herself in front of audiences.

Without accepting the veracity of whether the essays are from disembodied entities or from Suzanne herself. I have found them extraordinarily profound, inventive, original, highly creative and even poetic. To have such beautiful essays every single day is really, may I say unbelievable if Suzanne is making them up on the fly.
http://www.suzannegiesemann.com/category/sanaya/

I have noticed over time that Sanaya has increasingly gone deeper into the nature of self identity. Over many months the essays have developed from simple messages of love to commentaries on the nature of human egoic fallacies and even self inquiry. Reading Suzanne's own commentaries. Listening to her interviews. I don't get that same depth as from the Sanaya messages. It's weird and maybe Sanaya is authentic. Certainly it's grist for this forum's mill.

 

[Alex]

I've been following this thread. I didn't read the entire transcript, but most of it. I have listened to the Batgap interview and follow Suzanne on the FB. I believe she is the real deal. I disagree with those who say she was not an appropriate guest for this podcast show. I'd like to present a defense of Suzanne's response in light of getting to know her style a bit. She does keep to a very simple message of we are spritual beings having an earthly experience. We are aspects of the source and that source is love. It really is a non dual message. You have to read between the lines.

Yeah it seems contradictory that she embraces her military career and espouses a message which seems incongruent with her past. However in her mind, and I understand that, everything here on earth is meant to occur for growth and learning. We are all in various stages of a spiritual process. This is what her channeled spiritual guides tell her. By the way, I may have missed it but Alex never asked her or brought up Sanaya. For me, Sanaya is the most unique quality of Suzanne's gift. We know she is a medium. Did anyone ask her about her daily communication with a group of ascended masters? Suzanne is also a highly gifted channeler. Sanaya presents a short essay everyday channeled in writing posted on FB and also verbally through Suzanne herself in front of audiences.

Without accepting the veracity of whether the essays are from disembodied entities or from Suzanne herself. I have found them extraordinarily profound, inventive, original, highly creative and even poetic. To have such beautiful essays every single day is really, may I say unbelievable if Suzanne is making them up on the fly.
http://www.suzannegiesemann.com/category/sanaya/

I have noticed over time that Sanaya has increasingly gone deeper into the nature of self identity. Over many months the essays have developed from simple messages of love to commentaries on the nature of human egoic fallacies and even self inquiry. Reading Suzanne's own commentaries. Listening to her interviews. I don't get that same depth as from the Sanaya messages. It's weird and maybe Sanaya is authentic. Certainly it's grist for this forum's mill.

interesting. I think we're gonna do a show on channeling. Here's one of her latest:
Holy Art Thou

NOVEMBER 28, 2016 SANAYA SPEAKS 1 COMMENT

The question has been asked, “Is the Bible the word of God?” and we will answer that in the beginning was the Word. The Word represents vibration, sound, and in this case light as well. And beyond the first word came more words and more vibrations, more light, and ultimately matter … and it is all God.

All that Is is the expression of that primordial essence. So, is the Bible the word of God? Just as much as the words that come from all lips, from all that you see, but are they the highest expression of that limitless, boundless Force? This is where we ask you to go within, to the heart, where you are connected to Source.

Your Bible, just like all other expressions of the Source, has been filtered through human minds and pens, passed down through multiple languages. Those words that speak to the heart and ring of Truth do so for a reason. Those that speak of contradictory things and carry lower vibrations make the gut clench for a reason. If the gut clenches as you read these words about a book you do well to hold sacred, examine your belief systems. All is of the Creator. It cannot be any other way, for all is the expression of the One Mind, of Consciousness, of Spirit, and you are that as well.

In all things, honor your Source by being the highest possible living expression of Love.