1. materialism is bad

    materialism is bad New

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    I was reading Kevin Nelson and he cited a study here http://www.anesthesiaweb.org/images/hypoxia/Lempert-1994a.pdf, syncope & NDEs by Lempert Brauer & Schmidt. Does anyone know of a source with actual interviews of the patients? The table recording the frequency can be quite misleading, DMT hallucinations will tick many of the boxes but when you listen to a DMT trip vs an NDE you can easily tell they are very different.

    Also has there been any further studies to corroborate this study? I see skeptics persist in using lack of oxygen as an explanation despite the obvious problems like dizziness/unclear fragmented memory, they were probably thinking of this study. I would like to see any corroboration and interviews with the test subjects on what they actually experienced.

    Skeptic input from @malf @Paul C. Anagnostopoulos are greatly appreciated, if you guys know of interviews/further studies.
     
  2. materialism is bad

    materialism is bad New

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    I supposed I should be glad with no replies, one study with no corroboration and no in depth description of what the subjects really experienced. Is @Bart V a skeptic? I would like all skeptics to read this thread and see if they know anything, please reply and tag any skeptic you know. How do skeptics deal with the numerous veridication perceptions? They almost always ignore it when discussing NDEs, and attack the easy transcendental part. @Arouet

    Today I was walking and thought of a skeptic argument for one of Laurin Bellg's cases, Howard's case (he saw the training room above his cardiac ward). I emailed Bellg and she said it was a closed ward off limits to non staff member. BUT, Howard might of had a friend who works there, and he told Howard "if you ever have a cardiac arrest at this hospital, tell the doctors you floated above the ceiling into the training room, and watch the drama unfold".

    I suppose anyone can come up with a skeptic argument if he tries hard enough. Particles probably don't have wave properties, you can't rule out that all double slit/quantum eraser experiments display interference/retro causality patterns because of pure luck. Even though the chance is astronomically small, its still non zero, just like how the first cell formed from organic molecules by a lightning strike.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
  3. Typoz

    Typoz Member

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    By the way, as far as I'm aware, tagging people like this @Typoz doesn't actually trigger an alert.

    Back to the subject of this thread - I don't have anything to contribute, I suspect most of us here, including the sceptics have been round and around with these sorts of debates, regardless of what people think, they probably already said it. I guess the forum needs more new members - of all worldviews.
     
  4. materialism is bad

    materialism is bad New

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    I have low blood pressure and when i crouch for a long time then sudden stand up, I always experience syncope for a few seconds. I sometimes see flashing lights, but it feels VERY peaceful and pleasant for those few seconds. Just then I experienced it again and thought of this study,

    I can say I definitely do not wish to return to my normal waking consciousness when I experience it, it's feels very relaxed peaceful, like I have no worries in the world anymore. Never experienced unconditional love, life review, meaningful interactions, life changing experiences. Maybe because I only experience syncope for 3-4 seconds, if my syncope lasted for 30 seconds maybe I'd have more experience, but I've read a lot of NDEs and my experiences are completely different from NDEs.

    But I can say a few seconds of syncope is near the most pleasant experience you can have.
     

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