The Cursed Pit of Wretched Political Adulation

#61
If you can't comprehend how people could vote for Trump and continue to support him, maybe it's because you are misinformed about him?
You heard the man, Michael Patterson. Having read 25 books on Trump and American politics since Dec 2018, "maybe" you are still not informed enough.

Edit: Though, in fairness, after all that reading, you probably can comprehend how people could vote for Trump and continue to support him, even if you see through their reasons.
 
#62
For every Col Jessup protecting you, there a dozen out to subjugate you or kill you.
I think that this is a mindset, a messed up one. You seem to believe that the threats are everywhere. I’m not surprised. If that’s what you put out, that’s what you get back.

Colonel Jessup went to jail. Rightly so.

I think it's an important, albeit ugly conversation. It's not really politics. It's more of a spiritual discussion in disguise.
I think it’s important too. You see it as spiritual ‘in disguise’. I prefer to see it as a very down to earth discussion about ‘right and wrong’ here on earth. I think that’s why we incarnate, to get in the mud and the shit. Why cling to the spiritual while we’re here? Nobody really knows the truth about anything - not even you Eric. Though you seem to believe that you speak with some authority on the ‘spiritual’. You _might_ have special insight into the spiritual, but I would’nt place too much store on believing that.

I thought it might be interesting to see what someone else who has had a lot of insight into the ‘spiritual’ (there is no separation in reality), thought about Trump. I have been able to get in touch with Jurgen Ziewe (who no doubt has had a lot of spiritual experiences) for a few years so I sent him this question:

“What I wanted to ask was can someone here on earth behave like Trump and at the same time be an advanced soul?”

He replied:

“Haha, an ego maniac with mental health issues cannot bean enlightened man.”

An interesting reply. Is he right? I don’t know.

Where the hell do people like Steve get off preaching their version of morality as being a universal truth?
Whose saying I think I preach a ‘universal truth’? Show me where I’ve said that? That’s why what you write is so annoying. You can’t accept the opinions of others if they disagree with yours!

I really have no idea about ‘universal truth’, so I’m unlikely to have stated anything ‘profound’ about it. In fact in my book I have stated that ‘there may be no such thing as fundamental truth’.

It’s just my opinion. My take on the data. No more, no less. You are the one attaching baggage to it. Please try not to do that, or if you do, make it plain that it is your imagination at work rather than mine.
 
#63
Armenian, not Arab, but yes of the same communities.

I thought Col Jessup was the closest thing to a hero of that stupid movie. He thought the young Marine was slacking and slacking can't be tolerated. Turns out the PFC had a heart condition. That was sad. However, he signed up for the life and the life is about being combat ready to the max. Guys die in training accidents and from stress on unknown health conditions all of the time.

That's the price of protecting all of the people that won't or can't protect themselves.

For every Col Jessup protecting you, there a dozen out to subjugate you or kill you. You can wish everyone was a sheep, but they aren't.
I haven't seen the movie, but you know I don't really agree with the drift of what you are saying. The real problem is the Military Industrial Complex - i.e. that war ends up as just another way of making money. I am pretty sure we could have a less dangerous and far more friendly relationship with Russia if we could just become less confrontational. In fact I think you agree with that (correct me if I'm wrong) but you have let yourself get pushed into a position that is more polarised than you really want.

Clearly soldiers can end up at the sharp end, and I think it is almost impossible to enshrine what they do in 'rules of combat'. Here in Britain there are attempts to prosecute former soldiers for things that happened in Northern Ireland, but except in extreme circumstances I think that is a beastly thing to do - soldiers (and to some extent the police) take risks the rest of us are glad to avoid, and however well trained they are, they may over-react at times. It is the politicians fault for getting them into these situations.

Politicians find ways to weasel out of convictions. For example there are supposed to be rules against the use of torture, so politicians in both our countries (Labour in the UK) collaborated to send people to be tortured in other countries. The process was called 'extraordinary rendition', and I'd like to see the politicians responsible do some serious jail time, but it simply won't happen.

I know I am sitting on the fence to some extent, but I can see how debates like this easily drag people out into extreme positions.

David
 
#64
You heard the man, Michael Patterson. Having read 25 books on Trump and American politics since Dec 2018, "maybe" you are still not informed enough.

Edit: Though, in fairness, after all that reading, you probably can comprehend how people could vote for Trump and continue to support him, even if you see through their reasons.
Everyone could read books about Trump till they were blue in the face - because there are two sides to this issue, and endless books on each side. They could also drown in books telling them that conventional science is right, and that everything psychic is bunk - but I guess on that issue, you would recognise that you can't measure these things in terms of numbers of books!

However, the fact is that Trump was opposed by Hillary Clinton, who wanted to push US forces in Syria into a military confrontation with Russia. Electing HC might have lead to a nuclear war. Given that, Trump looked a much safer pair of hands! My number one reason for supporting Trump was that he was less confrontational - and I think he has proved to be just that.

The DNC let HC get the opportunity to oppose Trump, because they ignored evidence that she corruptly funnelled money to her campaign and away from Bernie's campaign. The problem is that far too many politicians put their party ahead of anything else, and that allows absolutely dreadful people to get to the top in politics. Trump is something of an exception, because he got to the top of the Republican Party against the gritted teeth of many Republicans - particularly the more militaristic ones, such as Senator McCain. The Democrats really hate him because he has popular appeal - ordinary people do not want their sons sent off to far away countries to fight in disputes that are irrelevant to them. That is a 'populist' viewpoint - I have heard Nigel Farage say something similar. I guess I see myself as a populist too.

David
 
#65
Some people think they are being "spiritual" by identifying "victims" that need saving and being pacifists. On the other hand we have the Mahabharata telling us - or Arjuna, at least - to go out and kill his usurping relatives. Islam is all about slaughtering infidels. Native Americans would prey to the Great Spirit for power to kill their enemies. Aztecs cut the still beating hearts out of scarified captives y the hundreds, even thousands in religious ceremonies.
To be fair, there are verses in the Bible that send out a similar message. To me, that is the real problem with religion - they revere scriptures that are hopelessly ambiguous and contradictory. Over time, different groups get to power and focus on the parts of the scriptures that appeal to them. At the moment though, you are right - it is Islam that currently exhibits the worst characteristics of religion.

David
 
#66
“Haha, an ego maniac with mental health issues cannot bean enlightened man.”

An interesting reply. Is he right? I don’t know.
Wouldn't many (all?) enlightened men be deemed to have mental health problems by current standards. Remember that the Soviets used to lock up dissidents in mental institutions. Possibly at least some of the medical staff involved saw those people as being mentally deranged.

David
 
#68
Wouldn't many (all?) enlightened men be deemed to have mental health problems by current standards. Remember that the Soviets used to lock up dissidents in mental institutions. Possibly at least some of the medical staff involved saw those people as being mentally deranged.

David
Name one enlightened person that’s on earth now. How did you identify him or her?
Perhaps we’re all ‘mentally deranged’? Just different orders.
 
#69
The DNC let HC get the opportunity to oppose Trump, because they ignored evidence that she corruptly funnelled money to her campaign and away from Bernie's campaign.
So, David, a question, which you might have already answered but if so I can't remember what that answer was: If Bernie had (as we both seem to believe he rightly should have) won the nomination, would you have preferred him over Donald Trump?
 
#70
For every Col Jessup protecting you, there a dozen out to subjugate you or kill you.
I think that this is a mindset, a messed up one. You seem to believe that the threats are everywhere. I’m not surprised. If that’s what you put out, that’s what you get back.
Yep. Exactly. It's the mindset that says "Subjugate others before they subjugate you". It's a paranoid mindset that poses as "realistic" and "of service". The irony is that we wouldn't need any protection which these sorts say they offer if they hadn't been out preemptively subjugating other peoples of the world, and thus fomenting retaliatory aggression against us which they then say they need to protect us from. Just twisted.
 
#71
No doubt, Eric's response will be along the lines of: "How naive, nations and individuals have throughout history sought to conquer other nations; you will always need protection from those nations and individuals". So, let me offer a response to preempt it:

This sort of "conquer and subjugate" spirit is exactly the problem to which Steve and I allude, and it is people like you, Eric, who foment it. You are the very problem to which you present yourself as the solution. Whatever the real solution is, it isn't to go out aggressing against other nations who mean us no harm from the start, and interfering in their affairs and trying to preemptively subjugate them to the point that they can't ignore us as a threat.
 
#72
So, David, a question, which you might have already answered but if so I can't remember what that answer was: If Bernie had (as we both seem to believe he rightly should have) won the nomination, would you have preferred him over Donald Trump?
That is hard to say, because I am not sure if Bernie would have stood up to the likes of Senator McCain and avoided unnecessary military action - Trump was the guy who actually talked about this issue. I'd most certainly have preferred Bernie to Hillary. My ideal president would be:

1) Someone who leant on the side of peace - trying above all to avoid war.

2) Someone who was sceptical about climate change, and demanded a full public discussion that would include any climatologist or physicist who wished to express an opinion. Everyone needs to hear both sides on this.

3) Someone who realised that unlimited immigration is impossible - ultimately breaking down society - but that more should be done to help people where they live. But there are problems there - no more wars to depose leaders, and the whole thing would need a decent plan.

4) I'd also like a president that tackled the cult of minorities. For example, I don't think it is reasonable to expose children in school under 14 (say) to the issues of transgenderism, and certainly not to start them on hormones to block their puberty.

Item one towers over the rest by a factor of about 1000!

David
 
#75
Islam is the most aggressive religion right now,
Don’t you think it’s presently the religion which can be thought of as being most hated by the (ignorant) West? I think western propaganda has a lot to answer for here. It is very powerful.

Who benefits most from having Islam seem as ‘bad’? Who has a lot of influence in the media? These are valid questions.
 
#76
Don’t you think it’s presently the religion which can be thought of as being most hated by the (ignorant) West? I think western propaganda has a lot to answer for here. It is very powerful.

Who benefits most from having Islam seem as ‘bad’? Who has a lot of influence in the media? These are valid questions.
My God some of you are pathetic screwed-up goofballs.

So you whine about bullies and then, in the next breath, defend Islam, a religion that makes women go around covered in a tarp and stones them to death if they kiss someone they're not married to, a religion that bans "western music", a religion that throws gay men off roof tops, a violently expansionist religion that invaded Europe. ..........eh....why do I bother? They surely don't teach those things at the anti-western civ school for spoiled brat cowards.....why you probably even a read a book or saw a documentary that says otherwise.

I also didn't fail to note that you blame victims for their fate. The Armenians had it coming to them as did the Jews circa Nazi Germany. A woman who is raped or anyone who gets home invaded or stabbed to death asked for it. When a Islamist sets off a bomb or goes on a rampage with a motor vehicle, the dead and maimed people had it coming because "If that’s what you put out, that’s what you get back." - the only people that get attacked in this world are those who put out negative vibes or some loony crap like that, right?

Poor poor little sheep. If only they could rid the world of people like me, except they can't because they're weak little sheep and people like me just keep getting born. Of course nice little sheep never fight amongst themselves. Sure.

I feel like I'm talking to some 6 year olds. So I'm out of this thread.
 
#77
Everyone could read books about Trump till they were blue in the face - because there are two sides to this issue, and endless books on each side.
Note well, Michael Patterson: you have been reading the wrong books. You cannot be trusted to form your own curriculum: you are too one-sided. But David can. Just ask him and he'll supply you with the correct titles. My favourite, with which David will no doubt acquaint you, is: Pump, dump, and plump for Trump's rump: a vision for peace.
 
#79
You were never in it. As Steve pointed out, you only ever argued against phantasms of your own imagination. But I'm glad to see you gone.
A final point. Since only people who put out bad vibes (or whatever) get attacked, then the Palestinians and your other favorite pet victims must have had it coming too. That would be the conclusion based on your silly spiritual "logic".

And who will save your poor little Palestinians? You sheep? Good luck.
 
#80
Since only people who put out bad vibes (or whatever) get attacked
Nobody said only people who put out bad vibes get attacked, and if that's what Steve meant, then I don't support it. For me, the point is that if you go around preemptively attacking, and attempting to preemptively subjugate, others, then it's not going to be surprising if you're attacked in return. And then it's all too easy to present yourself as the solution to the problem you created.
 
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