The death of AI (yet again)

Discussion in 'Other Stuff' started by David Bailey, Jan 2, 2017.

  1. Laird

    Laird Member

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    Indeed.

    Cross-posted to the "AI program beats human 3-0 at ancient Chinese game GO - thoughts?" thread:
    "Godlike" Artificial Intelligence Just Officially Beat The World's #1 Go Player


     
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  2. Laird

    Laird Member

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    Question (open-ended): are "understanding" and "judgements" (referenced in the above) predicated on consciousness, or can (non-conscious) intelligence be fairly claimed (as in the above) to possess/make them?
     
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  3. Andrew9

    Andrew9 Member

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    Having worked in IT, AI has always interested me although I think the label 'artificial intelligence' is very misleading. No real intelligence has yet appeared despite very clever algorithms and incredible processing speeds just good simulations. Here is a quote from an article in Bulletin of Atomic Scientists which may interest folks:

    "Although it has failed so far to realize the dream of intelligent machines, artificial intelligence has been one of the greatest intellectual adventures of the last 60 years. In their quest to understand minds by trying to build them, artificial intelligence researchers have learned a tremendous amount about what intelligence is not. Unfortunately, one of their major findings is that humans resort to fallible heuristics to address many problems because even the most powerful physically attainable computers could not solve them in a reasonable amount of time. ... As a consequence, both the peril and the promise of artificial intelligence have been greatly exaggerated."
     
  4. Silence

    Silence Member

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    Fully agree. Its a complete misnomer in my view. If you want to keep the acronym, at least swap "Artificial" with "Automated". I'm not wild about the use of "Intelligence" at all.
     
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  5. Typoz

    Typoz Member

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    From an IT point of view, the term "artificial stupidity" has also been used. That at least gives a caricature of the gap between what is termed "intelligence" in human and machine usages.

    It is also a term which is very hard to define. I.Q. has been defined as "that which is measured by I.Q. tests", there is a certain circularity to it.

    Years ago I held the view that intelligence was a survival characteristic. But under that definition the diesel engine would also be intelligent, since its ability to survive has been pretty strong. I'm not sure what a good definition would be .
     
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  6. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I absolutely agree with the part of your quote that I have emphasised! It is a great shame that this understanding about what intelligence isn't was not fully appreciated because it embarrassed too many researchers who had assumed AI would be easy once the computer power was available.

    I find myself less in agreement with the rest of what you wrote - though clearly we do take some risky short-cuts to reach conclusions -, although I recognise it as a common excuse for the failure of AI. If you want to pick a specific example, we could discuss it more concretely.

    My feeling is that AI researchers endlessly take conceptual ideas - like 'tall' for instance - and morph them into something far too concrete. For example, there was the craze for 'fuzzy sets' where a word like 'tall' became a function of someone's height that returned a number between 0 and 1. I don't think this captured the essence of the meaning of the word 'tall', which means something like 'of a surprisingly large height given the circumstances'. For example 'tall' applied to a child of 5, or maybe someone with dwarfism, would obviously not mean the same as applied to an adult.

    David
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
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  7. Andrew9

    Andrew9 Member

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    I would prefer the term 'simulated intelligence' to AI. I am no expert in the field and I do think current 'AI' applications like helper bots etc are a good thing when applied sensibly.

    I think time will prove that the materialist concept of real AI and immortality through uploading our consciousness are just fiction. Reality is much more interesting as NDEs suggest.
     
  8. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    OK - but do they differ really from ordinary programs? I mean, this is the point, for the concept of AI to be meaningful, it has to do something special, and even then, you have to ask if t is 'intelligent' in any way. In the 80's, some AI programs came out that would do algebra and calculus - something that certainly looked impressive. However, symbolic differentiation can be done by a simple recursive algorithm, and symbolic integration by pattern matching - accepting that the program will fail to spot some cases. However, nowadays there are much more powerful programs - such as Mathematica - that make no pretence of being based on AI.
    Agreed!

    David
     
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  9. malf

    malf Member

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  10. Dante

    Dante Member

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  11. Bucky

    Bucky Member

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    Hmmm... Try leaving a diesel engine entirely to its own devices and let me know how well it survives :D;)
     
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  12. Bucky

    Bucky Member

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    Typical malf :D
     
  13. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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  14. Typoz

    Typoz Member

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    The example I gave might be considered a type of symbiosis.
     
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  15. http://www.businessinsider.com/robot-lawyer-chatbot-2017-7
    The video shows it does a lot more than help with parking tickets.

    https://donotpay-search-master.herokuapp.com/
     
  16. nbtruthman

    nbtruthman New

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    It's interesting that even that famous (or infamous) skeptic of the paranormal Martin Gardner was really a Mysterian. Perhaps the only area in which I agree with him:

    (In Do Loops Explain Consciousness?, review of "I Am a Strange Loop" by Douglas Hofstadter, at http://www.ams.org/notices/200707/tx070700852p.pdf .)
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
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  18. Steve

    Steve Member

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    Thank God for some good news!
     
  19. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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  20. Stephen Wright

    Stephen Wright New

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    The real IT/SiliconValley world is after AI, like they are starving animals of prey. There is something they want; to consume for growth and evolution. AI/Brain interfaces are what they are seemingly after.
    no hidden conspiracy going-on here. this is right out in the open
    http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1332058
     

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