The Inherited Mind (Short Video)

Discussion in 'Consciousness & Science' started by DanBoothCohen, May 10, 2015.

  1. DanBoothCohen

    DanBoothCohen New

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    I recorded this video a few years ago. It's been receiving more interest in recent weeks. I would be appreciative for any Skeptiko Forum members to view it and engage in discussion about its validity and significance. Clearly, I have lots to say about it. Anyone up for a conversation about how I use it in clinical practice?
     
  2. Typoz

    Typoz Member

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    It's possible that these ideas have some merit. However in my view it still appears to be very incomplete. I see no mention of reincarnation. I don't know whether this is deliberately excluded, perhaps because it goes against your beliefs, of if perhaps you've simply not got around to covering that aspect yet.
     
  3. DanBoothCohen

    DanBoothCohen New

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    [quote="Typoz, post: 66401, member: 68"I see no mention of reincarnation. I don't know whether this is deliberately excluded, perhaps because it goes against your beliefs, of if perhaps you've simply not got around to covering that aspect yet.[/quote]

    I am working empirically, not from a set of beliefs grounded in a particular spiritual tradition. The inheritance of memory, emotion and behavior patterns appears to be most closely correlated with the biological lineage. This does not exclude reincarnation as a valid phenomenon.
     
  4. Craig Weiler

    Craig Weiler Associate

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    Rupert Sheldrake calls this morphic resonance, although he comes at this from a different angle. More importantly, he's done a number of experiments on animals to show that a collective consciousness is present.

    What you're suggesting is different . . . but it's not. Both of these rely on collective consciousness, only yours deals exclusively with related people taking emotional imprints through time and descendents where morphic resonance is a biological database specific to species.
     
  5. DanBoothCohen

    DanBoothCohen New

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    Craig, There is no separation between these ideas and Sheldrake's. Sheldrake is a theorist who emphasizes research to back his revolutionary paradigm of morphic resonance. Whereas, I am a clinician who applies Sheldrake's ideas of morphic resonance to help real people overcome and very real problems.

    Although I love Skeptiko and listen to all the shows, it is a minor source of frustration for me that Alex rarely explores practical applications of "consciousness, in some way we don't fully understand, survives death." There is a great willingness to debate - it does/it doesn't - but less curiosity about how this resonance of consciousness can be in service to bettering the quality of life of the countless people suffering under the burdens of materialism. In my practice, real-world emotional, behavioral and relationship difficulties release and resolve when brought into contact with the consciousness that survives death. Other than the psychic detective, very few guests, even those who support Sheldrake's ideas, are proficient at using this form of consciousness for people's benefit.

    Here's a video of Sheldrake speaking directly about my work.

     
  6. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

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    Interesting, Dan: I wasn't aware of practical applications of Sheldrake's work in psychology. Why don't you volunteer to go on Skeptiko to discuss the matter? I feel sure Alex would find it fascinating, and I for one would very much look forward to it.
     
  7. Craig Weiler

    Craig Weiler Associate

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    Tell me about it! Because of my blog I get a couple of inquiries a week from people looking for answers to questions no one else can answer. I've corresponded and talked to professionals, back country hicks, high school kids, middle schoolers, schizophrenics, you name it and they all have struggled to find someone who understands them and can give them some perspective. I've gotten quite good at giving short, but meaningful responses. No one wants the theory, they want to know what actions they can take. It's a very practical mater for them.
     
  8. Max_B

    Max_B Member

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    I don't know what you mean by 'constellation'.

    But, as you will know, the psychotherapist Anne Schutzenberger started to see patterns in her patients, and came to believe that sometimes our behaviour may not be ours, and instead come from the experiences of past family members, and she wrote a book about it called The Ancestor Syndrome.

    Recent studies investigating epigenetic inheritance in rodents seem to show that she was on the right track. Quite specific fears can be passed from a male parent to his offspring, and on to at least 2 further generations.

    A good friend of mine who was in therapy, certainly identified a major incident in the early life of his great grandmother which seemed to be linked to his fear of abandonment. He was able to identify its effects in his mother, and grandmother. I guess there is no way of knowing if it was real... But being able to identify an incident, and give this fear back to his great grandmother seemed very beneficial...
     
  9. DanBoothCohen

    DanBoothCohen New

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    Schutenzberger's book The Ancestor Syndrome is one of the foundation texts for practitioners who train in this method, popularly called Constellations [From Alfred Adler and Walter Toman]

    Typically, in therapy, a client may do a genogram of their lineage and literally connect the dots between their current issue and the past traumas in the family. This can be very helpful in itself. In my practice, I go beyond this. If one accepts the evidence presented convincingly in Skeptiko that consciousness - in some way we don't fully understand - survives death, the question becomes is that resonance of consciousness available in therapy? That is, when your friend "gave this fear back to his great-grandmother," was it a kind of mind-game or thought experiment or was the great-grandmother actively participating in the exchange?

    As I said above, my understanding does not grow out of a spiritual belief system. Based on the evidence of tens of thousand of clinical cases worldwide, a strong case can be made that the great-grandmother remains available in service to her great-grandson.
     
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  10. brooke

    brooke New

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    Hi Dan

    Thanks for your post. As a clinical social worker I'm interested in Systemic Constellations and the idea of epigenetic inheritance...when you mention that your work does not grow out of a spiritual belief system, but is informed rather by "the evidence of tens of thousand of clinical cases worldwide" what do you mean by the phrase "the evidence"? Are you just referring to the clients who have used this therapeutic approach or are you referring to something else?

    Thanks!

    Brooke
     
  11. Craig Weiler

    Craig Weiler Associate

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    You're a materialist troll who spends his time mocking the rest of us. Why should he waste his time on you?
     
  12. brooke

    brooke New

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    Materialist? I believe in psi, idiot. I do mock you because you're a self-absorbed, know-it-all ideologue who lacks critical thinking skills, but that doesn't have anything to do with Dr. Cohen and his work, which interests me professionally and personally.
     
  13. Typoz

    Typoz Member

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    Thanks for the reply. It has clarified matters a lot. I think empirical research is very valuable. I should also say thanks for discussing your work, it is good that you are willing to take time to do so.

    Now I feel I need to back track a little, to the area where we share most common ground.
    Now this is common across a range of therapeutic approaches, and I'm willing to agree here. I also found a lot of what was said in the video to be extremely meaningful, for example, "a child who's just born anxious, even though their circumstances of life is very free and easy" and "they become adults and find that they have a certain feeling that lives inside of them, that doesn't seem to be theirs". I found myself almost jumping up and down in agreement here, that part was very true for me.

    Where we may diverge a little (or perhaps not) is in how to explain where those memories from the distant past have their origin. In the opening post the preferred explanation is somewhat biological but seems to go beyond what might be considered within the remit of conventional biology. I'm all for pushing at these boundaries, not in the sense of throwing away what we know, but in exploring a little further, extending what is known.

    My take is that at least some of these distant memories come from our own previous lifetimes. I don't say all. Just some. It's possible that there are areas of overlap between the two views, and also that some cases may be better explained by one rather than the other of these views.

    I have a personal interest in these matters as in my younger days I would certainly have been a candidate for some form of therapy, though I declined professional help and found my own answers, despite it being a bumpy ride both for myself and for others around me. But that was decades ago, it's no longer an issue.
     
  14. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I wonder if epigenetics is used to explain a whole range of effects that can't really be the result of attaching methyl and other small organic groups to DNA. I mean it is hard to really credit the idea of encoding a life event into DNA - be it epigenetic of conventional.

    Do you think the data is valid, but is really a sign of something more like Sheldrake's concept of a morphic field?

    David
     
  15. Max_B

    Max_B Member

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    Rupert has his own views on it... But we've chatted back n forth, we both think it's significant, and field based.

    It doesn't seem to be inherited female to children... Just male to children... (Female inheritance seems to be learnt).

    It's not yet clear why when the male is killed to extract his sperm the inheritance still occurs, but at a lesser level. I find that very interesting... As its the male who donates the centriole to the egg.

    I also see this as a potential new explanation as to why matriarchal societies seem to be stable, and male led societies seem to be unstable.
    What is it about males that gives us an advantage (i.e Studies of Bonobo society). It would be fascinating if it was all tied up in the ability of males to pass experience directly to children... that would seem to me to give males an advantage in unstable environments, which would be lost in stable environments.

    When you look at mclintock's work on genetic... (You can watch her Nobel prize speech), she doesn't understand how cells can instantly change, very complex calculations performed instantly... she calls the cells intelligent (I'm not sure it was tongue in cheek).

    Then look at that unexpected frogs face research at tufts, using electrically sensitive dyes...

    Anyway it's all very interesting...
     
  16. Max_B

    Max_B Member

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    Speaking personally, I have always liked the idea that in therapy we might be healing the past in some way (not just for ourselves).

    My own view on it is that the brain really just stores associations as spatial patterns within its network.

    Separate patterns of activation of this network in the present, allows coherant interference with the same patterns in the past... So that all fields from the past in that pattern of activation are summed to the present.

    Thus where past network patterns are similar to present patterns, your ancestors past states influence your present states.

    At least one thing seems possible in therapy... change your brains network, by adding new associations... and that process seems to require two people.

    I don't know if any of that makes any sense to you.
     
  17. DanBoothCohen

    DanBoothCohen New

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    Brooke - The main body of evidence are the tens of thousands of clinical trials which test the validity of "representative perception." This is the human capacity to open the area of the body surrounding the heart as an organ of perception of the fields of consciousness that surround us. It is well-documented that virtually anyone can "tune-in" to the fields of morphic resonance surrounding another person. This is the primary access point for the information that is worked with in Family Constellations. If you have experienced the work, you will be familiar with your own capacity to perceive in this way.

    Secondary to this, is the wealth of research studies that have validated the existence of consciousness outside the brain that is easily perceived. Skeptiko is a wonderful resource for investigating this research. I need not spell it out here, as you are surely familiar with it.

    Thirdly, there is a growing body of qualitative and quantitative research on the Constellations themselves. Much of the best work is in German. Here is a link to some English language resources: http://www.isca-network.org/LinksResearch.

    Lastly, I will note that the research in evidence-based psychotherapy tilts heavily against a modality that purports to access fields of consciousness and is potentially far more effective that conventional brain=mind approaches. In my own practice, using Constellations can reduce a standard course of therapy from 6-12 months to 2-4 sessions. This applies to a broad range of emotional, behavioral, medical and relationship problems.
     
  18. DanBoothCohen

    DanBoothCohen New

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    Max, I do not agree that inherited trauma only passes through the male lineage. Some geneticists may postulate that based on their research into enzymes. My own experience is that trauma is passed very freely through the maternal line for many generations.
     
  19. DanBoothCohen

    DanBoothCohen New

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    Max, Dr. Dan Siegel is a fantastic resource for this viewpoint. It is aligned with my own experience. They only distinction for me, is that the main access point for this spacial pattern network appears to be the core of the body, roughly from the throat to the navel.
     
  20. Max_B

    Max_B Member

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    Well I'm only talking about epigenetic inheritance of fear that has been studied in rodents... Male parents seem able to pass their learnt behaviours on to children without any exposure between them... Thereafter the inherited behaviour is passed on through both sex's to at least two further generations.
     

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