The love of normal people and the "love" mentioned in near death experience.

#1
The love of normal people and the "love" mentioned in near death experience.

Love is a nice word, but it is only "a word", it can carry many different meanings.

When we hear many "love" elements mentioned in near death experience, the first reaction is to feel happy, because it seems there is a loving God who cares about us, and will give everything a justice and meaningfulness. This is also what is expressed similarly by many nders.

But, the first impression is not a mature analysis. When you think deeper, you will find the "love" mentioned in near death experience is not "the same love" as we know, and, to be honest, the weird love mentioned in near death experience, seems to indicate something, opposite to the loveliness that the word love normally implies, something that is actually weird and abnormal, or even terrible and dark.

The love mentioned in near death experience, is NOT A GOOD SIGN, but carries some quite opposite, sinister aura.

Let me explain. When a normal person meets a "long time no see" beloved one, the first reaction ought to be, asking:
Where have you been?
Are you ok there?
What next shall we do?

OK, let's see near death experiences, the nders never asked these questions, weirdly, they just "feel happy".

Imagine if your daughter went abroad a foreign country unfamiliar to you, say, China, and have been studying and living there for three years, and you now go to her university for attending her graduation ceremony, this is the first time you meet her for three years, and for some reasons, you didn't even contact with her ever once during these three years. What are the highest priority words you want to speak with her? Will you want to say:
I understand everything.
Everything is connected.
We are much much loved by God.
We are here to learn by experience.
And so on....

No! As normal, sane people, we won't want to say these to our daughters under this circumstance. Our first priority should be:
Are you enjoying being here?
Are you safe here?
Is the food here adaptive to your appetite?
Has your studying been going well?
What's your future plan?
Do you miss me?
What can I help you?

In short, under these unsure and important circumstances, normal, sane people will care and will be worried about "the practical, specific, detailed, tangible" things, rather than philosophical claims and "big statements".

I can't understand why so many nders don't care about, or, they even try to escape any specific event, question, and the real details, rather, they seem to be obsessed by an accustomed inclination to "big claims", like "Everything is understood. Everything is connected. Love is the most important thing. We are part of God. We are here to learn."

The "big claims" are hollow and meaningless, especially extremely meaningless in a situation that you find you are in a completely unknown realm. Actually visiting an unknown realm is like an elite soldier in a special troop entered a very dangerous region, he should feel extremely vigilant and try to seek and glean every information to identify his environment and prepare for the danger which can be coming at any imminent time. He should more or less distrust anything he sees, hears, encounters, rather than let whatever mechanism wraps him in a non-defensive non-doubtful ease.

Near death experiences are weird, abnormal, insane, delusive, rather than transcendent, enlightened, revealing, delighted.

By the weird behavior, reaction of nders, and their weird attention and concern, it is more like a brain damage, mental illness, rather than proof of afterlife or another world.

Could anyone else provide different opinions? Is my thought reasonable? Shouldn't we feel near death experiences are a weird phenomenon, if not a bad and dark sinister, rather than expressed by the superficially lovely word: "love"?
 
#2
I will further explain when a normal, sane person encounters a "long time no see" beloved one, in our physical world or in near death experience, what he/she will speak to the beloved one.

Normal, sane person's first concern should be making sure his/her beloved one is OK. To make sure this, he/she would ask questions like:
Where have you been since we last met.
What did you do during our separation.

And the questions should be more or less further detailed, to ascertain the beloved one has been really OK.
For example:
In the place you have been, what is the usual atmospheric conditions, is it cold or hot? Is it clean or polluted?
What you usually ate being in there? Or that you don't need to eat food?
What you usually did being in there? If playing, what did you play? If getting along well with friends, who accompanied you? If reading books or learning knowledge by various other means, what content have you read and learned? About what theme? Math? Physics? History? Biology? Psychology? Fantasy? Stories? Universe? Human science?
Is there governance power there? Like God, government, police, military force, or some spiritual guard.
Is there bad people or bad soul there? Are they a threat to you?

But near death experiencers never asked any of these questions, when they encountered beloved ones - by their claims.
Instead, many nders are just obsessed by repeating "big claims" which are hollow and meaningless:
I understand everything. Whenever I have a question, I immediately get an answer. (But I can't remember any specific one?!)
Everything is connected, we are connected. (But I can't say which specific person is connected to whichever another specific person, or by what means?)
We are much much loved by God. (How God loves us? Take an example? Letting a student pass an examination, is a "God's love"? Sounds weirdly simple.)
There is no time. (So how could you say which happened first? which happened next? They happened in the same time? So why you speak one thing's occurrence BEFORE you tell another thing's occurrence?)

It seems a brain damage, mental illness, that nders try to escape handling details, but to be obsessed by those meaningless "big claims". It's not a transcendent enlightening, it's a weird mental anomaly. And it is also like a control, enslave by some extraterrestrial forces or an ongoing conspiracy.
 
#3
love while in any context the near death experience or a visitation afterward does not. at the moment of the miracle, work in the linear fashion that you mentioned above. you are simply given a message. i know it happened to me just three weeks after a loved one passed. there is no time to formulate earthly inquiries during the event.
Understand.
Our "self" and freewill can't exist in a "no time" state, or in a "not linear time flow" state.
I doubt in the state you mentioned, our "self" and freewill don't exist at all.
See our discussion, it is in a fashion of:
I say something.
You say something according to what I said before.
I say something according to what you said just now.
Linear time flow is extremely fundamental to accommodate the existence of our "self".
As to this statement you said: "there is no time to formulate earthly inquiries during the event", it is a sign that in that state, one doesn't have freewill at all.
The experience seems not to be experienced by one's "self", it seems some prepared information, one reads it, rather than experiences it.
Our "self's" experience can only happen in linear time flow. That "no time" experience described by near death experiencers or any so-called transcendent experiencers, seems never have been "experienced", instead, nders read those prepared information, only when they later wake up from the coma.
 
#4
love while in any context the near death experience or a visitation afterward does not. at the moment of the miracle, work in the linear fashion that you mentioned above. you are simply given a message. i know it happened to me just three weeks after a loved one passed. there is no time to formulate earthly inquiries during the event.
I also understand you said, that's only a message.

But a message can be easily created by purely imagination.
 
#7
I think it is easy to 'chew' words like 'love' until they lose all meaning. It is probably best to go by what NDE experiencers actually say. Maybe people don't ask all the questions you proposed, because they know that out there everything is so different that asking someone about their food, or studies for example, isn't sensible.

Maybe a closer analogy is if your child is taken away and given new parents, and then 30 years later he turns up in a fancy car and some letters after his name. You would be stunned to meet your child again, but their relationship with you would feel utterly different.

David
 
#8
I think language is part of the problem here. These otherworldly experiences sometimes defy what can be explained in reference to this reality. Words tend to impose preconceptions we have constructed. In my experience with altered states this is very apparent. As soon as you put a label on anything it does the experience a sort of injustice. The word "God" for example is the classic case. It imposes certain restrictions in a sense, certain reprogrammed conceptions that have been learnt over a lifetime in this reality. it is an attempt to describe what is actually indescribable.

What is more meaningful than the descriptions of NDE's is the profound emotional content rather than the words. It's what is in between the words. It is ineffable. The words of description are a mere shadow of the experience and very likely do it no justice.
 
#9
I think it is easy to 'chew' words like 'love' until they lose all meaning. It is probably best to go by what NDE experiencers actually say. Maybe people don't ask all the questions you proposed, because they know that out there everything is so different that asking someone about their food, or studies for example, isn't sensible.

Maybe a closer analogy is if your child is taken away and given new parents, and then 30 years later he turns up in a fancy car and some letters after his name. You would be stunned to meet your child again, but their relationship with you would feel utterly different.

David
I understand your reasoning.

But, the crux is that, nders almost never asked anything meaningful.

Sure, they do not necessarily ask the question about "food", but the problem is that they never asked anything at all, which the normal sane people would have cared about under that circumstance.

Entered a completely unfamiliar environment, normal sane people should be vigilant, curious, doubtful, cautious.... until they have asked sufficient questions, got sufficient answers, sought out sufficient evidence, gleaned sufficient amount of information.

When normal sane people meet their child again, the first reaction should be worried, not feeling at ease and happy, until to some degree they have ascertained their child has been OK and is OK now. In this case, they can tell you the reason why they know their child is OK, they can present the information they have gleaned to demonstrate in the place their child has been, it is really OK.

Nders' mind, concern, reaction.... are all very very weird and abnormal. It seems they unnaturally try to escape being doubtful, seeking truth, gleaning and analyzing information. It seems they are abnormally obsessed into repeating meaningless "big claims", like:
Love is the most important thing.
I understand everything.
Everything is connected.
We are part of God.
We are here on earth to learn.
There is a plan.
Everything is reasonable.
Nothing to worry about.
....

Normal sane people DON'T care about any of the "big claims" under that circumstance! Normal sane people will try to ask tons of questions to ascertain what's the true circumstance there is and whether someone they meet there is real genuine and is OK!

In some strange way, nders are like in an aftermath of brain damage and mental illness, but at some other points, they are not like the mentally abnormal people we have seen before, nders are very sane and normal when they do not start to utter those meaningless and unsuited "big claims".

So, it might be a case of extraterrestrial intervention, or a conspiracy, as well as a special, nouveau type of mental illness. I can't see any chance of proving to an afterlife or another world. Because nders tell us almost ZERO amount of meaningful information, all they do are repeating the weird meaningless "big claims" in a weirdly abnormal obsession way.

If this thing is not strange, then nothing on earth is strange.
 
#10
I think language is part of the problem here. These otherworldly experiences sometimes defy what can be explained in reference to this reality. Words tend to impose preconceptions we have constructed. In my experience with altered states this is very apparent. As soon as you put a label on anything it does the experience a sort of injustice. The word "God" for example is the classic case. It imposes certain restrictions in a sense, certain reprogrammed conceptions that have been learnt over a lifetime in this reality. it is an attempt to describe what is actually indescribable.

What is more meaningful than the descriptions of NDE's is the profound emotional content rather than the words. It's what is in between the words. It is ineffable. The words of description are a mere shadow of the experience and very likely do it no justice.
We use languages to communicate with each other, to exchange information, to help keep all of us sober sane, knowledgeable, meaningful, responsible. Besides using languages, there is no other way which can reach a similarly ideal effect.

I understand your meaning.

I also completely agree, those experiences are ineffable.

But, even if so, people who have had any kind of experience, should be able to say something meaningful and informational. Even if something is ineffable, they could find a way to try to laterally speak something approximately resembling what they want to tell us.

The experiencers can't just say nothing meaningful, and insist on that they have found the evidence of an afterlife or another world.

Those meaningless "big claims" are not in any way an evidence of another world, they are just an evidence of the abnormal obsession to repeating meaningless "big claims".

When nders say, God sent them back, telling them it was not their time to return to there, why they never asked God: why? If God had really expressed the meaning that God can't tell them the reason, why nders never be curious and asked God: why you can't tell me the reason?

When nders meet someone in between there, why they never asked any meaningful questions like:
Are you a real person or a fake person? Like an illusion for example. If you are real, try to tell me something only a real person can possibly tell me.
Are you OK there, what do you do everyday? Or if there is no daytime-night-shift, there is no concept of days there, what do you do every moment there?
Do you need to eat food there? If not, can you recall the hungry feeling as you had when you were on earth? Do you need to sleep there? If not, can you recall the sleepy feeling as you had when you were on earth?
I don't go further, there should be almost infinite questions to ask the people who are in the so called "other side"....

I know many things would be completely different there, and the things there are ineffable. The weird thing is not on this point. The weird thing is, nders never tried to ask any question, it seems their mind were controlled in that state, and probably have still been in an enslavement after they have been cured from the life threatening disease or injury. Otherwise, why they never even HAD A TRY, to seek for the information a normal sane person should care about, worry about? I find all nders do, are abnormally being obsessed by repeating those meaningless "big claims".
 
#11
Consider if your child has become an adult, and has just learned to drive vehicles.

For the first time, you accompany him to drive on the real road.

What would be your most concerned thing? To be extremely vigilant and keep an eye on your child as a newbie driver. To tell him be careful, to tell him not drive too fast, to tell him not be reckless, to remind him the way, the traffic rules, the interior manipulation of the car, etcetera.

Because you want him to be safe! This is the LOVE we normal sane people know of!

To communicate using languages IS BECAUSE OF LOVE.
To ask and answer questions IS BECAUSE OF LOVE.
To exchange information sufficiently IS BECAUSE OF LOVE.
To say all the necessarily things about how to safe drive as a veteran driver to a newbie driver, in a clear, precise, detailed and informational way, IS BECAUSE OF LOVE.
All these are for your child to be able to safe drive as a newbie driver, and keep being a safe driver for his entire life, BECAUSE OF LOVE.

LOVE is to thoroughly communicate the information about the situation and making sure each other is OK and safe.

Under the situation similarly, what is not about the LOVE we normal sane people know of? Let me say several examples:
Repeating "big claims".
Just feel happy, no reason, just happy and relax, feel everything is OK.
Make no question and want no answer, no need to seek out anything.
Disdain our physical lives by saying they are meaningless.

This is not a proof of finding another world, this is a weird mental illness or being controlled by some extraterrestrial forces or some conspiracy. This is not the LOVE we normal sane people know of!
 
#12
Of course, under the situation of the example I took, you shouldn't speak with your child all the way when he/she is driving. Most of the time, you should keep silent and keep an eye, to let your child do his/her own thing and concentrate on his/her driving. Only when some crucial and necessary occasions you speak to him/her.

After this event, when you tell someone else how you accompanied your child for his/her newbie real road drive for the first time, you will have astronomically large amount, if not infinite amount, of information to say. Like at what occasion your child made a minor mistake that newbie drivers often make, and how you find a suited occasion to remind him/her in a concise, precise way. How he/she responded and rectify his/her habit on the next similar occasion.

Just this little thing, we can say tremendous amount of information about it. Life is about tremendous amount of information. Our existence is about tremendous amount of information. And only tremendous amount of information can bolster the existence and meaningfulness of us and the LOVE of us.

Near death experiencers seem have ZERO amount of information to bolster that they have visited another world or met someone from the other side. Near death experiencers just abnormally and weirdly be obsessed into repeating those meaningless "big claims" which is irrelevant of the LOVE we normal sane people cherish.
 
A

Aliceinunderland

#13
Hi tarantulanebula, interesting question!

True, the word love is used for so many different things. In some languages there are different words for different loves -love of a sunset is different to say, love of one's dog. But all these loves are an extension of our Self, and for a tangible or discernible 'thing'. There are also different loves between people, but even if it is of the kind between a parent and child there is a conditional quality that maybe generated by gene-survival.

The love that nde'rs talk of seems to have a 'self-less' quality, so that it indicates a loss of self or absence of ego, corresponding with the loss of the body, and an absence of a material object to focus one's love upon. I think it is rare for any of us in a normal sane state of mind to sustain a truly selfless love for any one or thing, our self-cosciousness always reasserts itself. The nearest might be the love a baby expresses to a primary care-giver, although cynically-speaking that too may be motivated by a desire for survival.

The experience nde'rs describe does sound 'crazy'. As strange as a dream, hallucination or drug-induced experience. It is unfamiliar and unbelievable or ineffable, beyond our normal sane understanding, because we require a 'self' to relate. The ego-self, that has an interest in atmospheric conditions or what to eat, seems to disappear in these events. This does not answer whether it is possible to ask pertinent 'material' questions, it just indicates that the experience of ndes, as with hallucinations, dreams or drugs are beyond 'normal sane' comprehension.

I agree, it does result in a weirdly willing loss of autonomy. Not that it is necessarily sinister, but is definitely 'not normal'
 
#14
Could anyone else provide different opinions? Is my thought reasonable? Shouldn't we feel near death experiences are a weird phenomenon, if not a bad and dark sinister, rather than expressed by the superficially lovely word: "love"?
I think here that the word 'love' is an attempt to explain a deep sensation. Love is a vast idea, indeed one of the fundamental 'big' ideas that we humans are hooked on. The others include - justice, freedom and truth. NDEs are not routine experiences. They are intensely subjective and trigger powerful emotions. There are other peak experiences that deliver fundamentally transformative emotions - especially what we tend to describe as love.

I am not sure why you sense something bad or sinister here. I don't think the idea of Love is 'lovely' in any sense beyond loving chocolate and the like. Love can powerful and turbulent. It can lead to suffering. But, by its nature it can be neither 'bad' nor 'sinister'. However bad and sinister acts can be disguised as love - superficially.

If we reframe your question to ask whether a NDE can be bad or sinister, I think not, though some NDEs have a dark aspect to them. We can quibble here, of course, but for me Spirit will deliver 'tough love' - and we need to careful how we judge another's experience.
 
#15
The experience nde'rs describe does sound 'crazy'. As strange as a dream, hallucination or drug-induced experience.
I suggest there is a need to be very careful in makng comparisons of this type. One thing which we can be sure of, the NDE is much closer to our normal waking reality than it is to dreams, hallucinations and so on. The NDE is often described as 'realer than real'. Somehow it is so real that this present existence seems pale and dreamlike in comparison.

I don't think the term 'crazy' (at least my first reaction to that word) fits very well either. Often in an NDE a person will suddenly have greater understanding, everything falls into place and makes sense. No, the NDE isn't crazy. That is the more real. Where we are right now, by comparison, this is crazy.


Given this relationship between this reality and the reality of the NDE, I'd suggest that the questions and doubts that we have should be addressed to where and how and what we are, right now, here in this world. It seems we exist inside some sort of a dream, one from which we awaken in an NDE. Perhaps our real aim should be to put this present existence into its proper perspective, given that where we are now is somehow less real.
 
#16
Hi tarantulanebula, interesting question!

True, the word love is used for so many different things. In some languages there are different words for different loves -love of a sunset is different to say, love of one's dog. But all these loves are an extension of our Self, and for a tangible or discernible 'thing'. There are also different loves between people, but even if it is of the kind between a parent and child there is a conditional quality that maybe generated by gene-survival.

The love that nde'rs talk of seems to have a 'self-less' quality, so that it indicates a loss of self or absence of ego, corresponding with the loss of the body, and an absence of a material object to focus one's love upon. I think it is rare for any of us in a normal sane state of mind to sustain a truly selfless love for any one or thing, our self-cosciousness always reasserts itself. The nearest might be the love a baby expresses to a primary care-giver, although cynically-speaking that too may be motivated by a desire for survival.

The experience nde'rs describe does sound 'crazy'. As strange as a dream, hallucination or drug-induced experience. It is unfamiliar and unbelievable or ineffable, beyond our normal sane understanding, because we require a 'self' to relate. The ego-self, that has an interest in atmospheric conditions or what to eat, seems to disappear in these events. This does not answer whether it is possible to ask pertinent 'material' questions, it just indicates that the experience of ndes, as with hallucinations, dreams or drugs are beyond 'normal sane' comprehension.

I agree, it does result in a weirdly willing loss of autonomy. Not that it is necessarily sinister, but is definitely 'not normal'
You said my heart.

I can't use these sophisticated way of expression sentences in English language, but you said what I want to say.

One thing I want to add to what I call "sinister":
You said loss of self, loss of ego, loss of autonomy, is the meaning I wanted to convey by saying - using my choice of words - nders' minds were controlled or enslaved during those experiences which are in no way better than dream, hallucinations, illusions, whimsical imaginations, etcetera.

Sure, under those life threatening conditions, no one SHOULD expect something BETTER than loss of self, loss of ego, loss of autonomy, mind being controlled by the bad body conditions, etcetera. After all, the illness or the injury lead to those life threatening conditions are tragic events.

But, after nders have been completely cured, and when they start to say many things which sound reasonable or even wise, showing no brain damage, or at least showing no severe brain damage as we know of from previously classic case of brain damage, they still weirdly insist on repeating those meaningless "big claims" and insist on they know an afterlife, have met deceased ones, and have visited another world.

This strangeness lets me worry about whether they are particularly mentally enslaved by some extraterrestrial forces or a terrible conspiracy, to which my choice of word: sinister refers.

In short, nders are mentally normal in many ways but weirdly abnormal in a particular way:
obsessed into repeating meaningless "big claims" while losing interest, motivation, or responsibility sense to SEEK FOR THE REAL TRUTH, and also escape from gleaning and analyzing complex details and large amount of information.

All in all, near death experiences are not a good sign.
 
#17
Hi tarantulanebula, interesting question!

True, the word love is used for so many different things. In some languages there are different words for different loves -love of a sunset is different to say, love of one's dog. But all these loves are an extension of our Self, and for a tangible or discernible 'thing'. There are also different loves between people, but even if it is of the kind between a parent and child there is a conditional quality that maybe generated by gene-survival.

The love that nde'rs talk of seems to have a 'self-less' quality, so that it indicates a loss of self or absence of ego, corresponding with the loss of the body, and an absence of a material object to focus one's love upon. I think it is rare for any of us in a normal sane state of mind to sustain a truly selfless love for any one or thing, our self-cosciousness always reasserts itself. The nearest might be the love a baby expresses to a primary care-giver, although cynically-speaking that too may be motivated by a desire for survival.

The experience nde'rs describe does sound 'crazy'. As strange as a dream, hallucination or drug-induced experience. It is unfamiliar and unbelievable or ineffable, beyond our normal sane understanding, because we require a 'self' to relate. The ego-self, that has an interest in atmospheric conditions or what to eat, seems to disappear in these events. This does not answer whether it is possible to ask pertinent 'material' questions, it just indicates that the experience of ndes, as with hallucinations, dreams or drugs are beyond 'normal sane' comprehension.

I agree, it does result in a weirdly willing loss of autonomy. Not that it is necessarily sinister, but is definitely 'not normal'
To be honest, I think if nders are still mentally sane, they should accept either of these two cases:

1, start to ask questions, if some so called "guardian angel" still keep visiting them after they had nde, as some of them claimed, they should start to ask many many questions when their so called "guardian angel" show up next time. Like:
Are you real? Prove to me. Say something to me that only a real consciousness can tell.
If afterlife is real, what people or souls in there do for every moment? I guess they shouldn't just keep laugh happily, right? They need to live there by doing some activities.
Why you are my guardian angel? Why not someone else? How our relationship was determined in the first place? If you can't tell me right now? At least tell me why you can't tell me right now?
Why your appearance is only a light silhouette? Why I can only see a light aura at the place where your face and facial features should have been? Let me approach close to you and see it more clear please. I want to see is there some CONTENT within the light, even if only some color gradient.
Also, I'm worried about that if your appearance is only a light, you might be a fake figure projected by some extraterrestrial technology.
So you need to talk to me and answer as many questions as you can, in order to show me that you are real and have a real consciousness.
So tell me, when I was having my nde, where was my boyfriend? What was he doing? Did he think about me? Did he worry about me since we had not contacted for 8 hours before my nde.
Whether my boyfriend was seeking for another woman? Whether he really loves me?
Did that colleague of mine, who chattered all day long, say something bad about me to the other colleagues when I was absent? What did he say?
Are my boss considering firing me? What I did let him consider me as not an ideal employee? Whether I can find a better job if I'm really going to be fired?
....

2, start to accept nde is only a hallucination, because nders can't even refer to any detail in their experience which could even take a bootstrap commence to bolster an afterlife claim. The so called near death experience might not be experienced by nder's self at all, they are just some physiological trace left by a brain damage aftermath.

Of course, there is a saying, by many expressions around a meaning similar to "our self is not important" or "we never really have a self".
Oh, this saying is anti-humanity and anti-life.
WE ARE OUR SELF.
If a crazy saying says: within a so called experience, WE DO NOT HAVE A SELF, OR AN EGO, OR ANY AUTONOMY, the meaning is the same as saying: we died and disappeared in that due time of the so called experience. Those experiences are not experiences at all. They are mental anomaly left by some mechanism's trace and they do not contain any meaningful information which can lead to another real world, or any otherworldly consciousness like guardian angels. All are lies. Lies to the others and lies to oneself.

I can't understand this insanity, as crazy as many other part of this tragic world. God is so so so so cruel to let us suffer and cheat us like fools.
 
#18
I think here that the word 'love' is an attempt to explain a deep sensation. Love is a vast idea, indeed one of the fundamental 'big' ideas that we humans are hooked on. The others include - justice, freedom and truth. NDEs are not routine experiences. They are intensely subjective and trigger powerful emotions. There are other peak experiences that deliver fundamentally transformative emotions - especially what we tend to describe as love.

I am not sure why you sense something bad or sinister here. I don't think the idea of Love is 'lovely' in any sense beyond loving chocolate and the like. Love can powerful and turbulent. It can lead to suffering. But, by its nature it can be neither 'bad' nor 'sinister'. However bad and sinister acts can be disguised as love - superficially.

If we reframe your question to ask whether a NDE can be bad or sinister, I think not, though some NDEs have a dark aspect to them. We can quibble here, of course, but for me Spirit will deliver 'tough love' - and we need to careful how we judge another's experience.
I understand you said love often not leads to sweet loveliness, but often leads to suffering. I agree with this.

Nders insist that "we should not worry about anything and just be happy and relax", and at the same time they claim "love is the most important thing". This is weirdly abnormal.

Not worrying about anything and just being happy and relax, is a posture of indifference and irresponsible, especially under some serious situations. It is a lack of love. But nders claim "love" anyway.
 
A

Aliceinunderland

#19
One thing which we can be sure of, the NDE is much closer to our normal waking reality than it is to dreams, hallucinations and so on.
How is an NDE 'closer to our normal waking reality'? Riding a butterfly's wing or speaking to unusual entities is closer to the stuff of dreams, hallucinations and drug-trips. The reports of NDE's being 'realer than real' is a vague description, usually referring to colours being brighter and understanding, on some issues, deeper, or because the experience is extreme compared to 'normal' existence, but this does not make it closer to normal waking reality. It does compare well with hallucinations and drugs.
I don't think the term 'crazy' (at least my first reaction to that word) fits very well either.
It sounds 'crazy' because it is the opposite of normal. This is not to say normality is not crazy too. Your response to the word 'crazy' may be why so many prefer to keep quiet about their NDE, hallucinations and drug experiences. And why many people doubt the veracity of NDE claims.
[edit:] Madness is generally reviled in our culture.
It seems we exist inside some sort of a dream, one from which we awaken in an NDE. Perhaps our real aim should be to put this present existence into its proper perspective, given that where we are now is somehow less real.
I think both realities have their own perspectives, and one is not more or less real than the other, but they are different. We may 'awaken' in an NDE if we believe we are currently asleep, but this is only relevant by comparison. We may be no more 'awake' in an NDE, hallucination, drug experience, just more 'alert' or 'open' to alternative perceptions because freed from the normal.

But none of this addresses why there is this overwhelming submission to a universal love.
 
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A

Aliceinunderland

#20
Your english is beautiful and I can only speak one language well.
All in all, near death experiences are not a good sign.
I think it is a personal choice to see NDEs as 'not good' or 'sinister'. There is blissful or fearful potential in all these 'other-wordly' experiences, but surrender to their temporary reality is a 'good' response, by which I mean acceptance takes the stress out of the experience. We 'submit' and this seems to release a sense of being inexplicably cherished and made wiser by the alternative perspective.

Unfortunately this does sound close to a form of 'hostage-love' but even that makes sense in the context of such an unreal situation as being held hostage. The necessary self-abnegation in these experiences is because of a loss of the ego-driven Self. It is interpreted as Love perhaps because that is what is behind our layers of 'normal' identity, our 'default' condition, and Love does not care to answer questions that are 'irrelevant'. I think we can only choose to suspect sinister intent on a conscious level and call it 'lies' if we believe we are in possession of 'truth'. So also it is a 'mental anomaly' only if we believe that 'normality' is more valid.
 
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