The OTO and Crowleyanity

#1
(I didn't know where to post this thread lol)

First of all I wanna say thank you for the show. The latest episode with Jasun Horsley is fascinating but I wanted to make a post because I see some misconceptions that I think would really benefit a fuller picture of Occulture and would help a lot of people swim through the morass beforehand. A lot of people get bogged down and lost in certain details.

In the episode with Jasun I hear Alex referencing the Do What Thou Wilt "mantra" a few times and I think there are some misconceptions regarding that phrase that if were cleared up would polish the mirror a little bit more and let people see clearer.

I left the OTO for a few specific reasons and I know a few other people who were either removed or left and I've had some commiserations with them that I found quite interesting, and I say this because I want you to know that I volunteer this info not as a demagogue of the Order.

If you’re interested in flushing some of the philosophy out of this and understanding it a bit more I would be happy to answer questions to the best of my ability and clear some things up. I'm not here to save the Order, I'm here because there is a clear yearning to understand and integrate this labyrinth to get a more birds eye view of the bigger picture. I don't have the bigger picture, but I have a picture of something that might help slide the puzzle pieces together a bit more.
 
#2
Alright let me just start with Do What Thou Wilt...

The full phrase is "Do what Thou Wilt shall be the Whole of the Law..Love is the Law, Love Under Will" (sometimes abbreviated 93 93/93 - it's Gematria bro)

I think it's important to remember that full phrase and to 100% know that Do What Thou Wilt is not a proscription for doing whatever the fuck you want. Will is your "purpose" in life, it's the thing that drives you as a being. I think of it as Flow State. You know when you're doing something you love/are good at and time just seems to pass because you're totally involved in it AND it's effortless? That's when you know you're doing your True Will.

Contextually I think that's important to know, because if we want to frame it in a way that tries to tie some of Alex's recent threads together - if someone understood their True Will to be like, horrific acts against children, then a baseline understanding of Do What Thou Wilt to mean Do whatever the fuck you wanna do is going to be more nihilistic than someone who bases their spiritual reality on Thelema and the OTO (Crowleyanity). The difference between someone hurting children because they feel like it and someone hurting children because they're a Thelemite and believe that hurting children is their goal in their incarnation on Earth is not a negligible difference.

Does that make sense?

Raping kids is evil, but having the spiritual impulse to act on AND religiously justify it is Evil and that really needs to be clear when this Do What Thou Wilt phrase gets utilized in discourse.

I also want to stress that I frame it this way in context of Skeptiko. I NEVER saw any evidence of child rape in ANY capacity in my time in the OTO, just to be crystal clear.
 

Alex

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#4
Alright let me just start with Do What Thou Wilt...

The full phrase is "Do what Thou Wilt shall be the Whole of the Law..Love is the Law, Love Under Will" (sometimes abbreviated 93 93/93 - it's Gematria bro)
first off, as you know I'm not totally against occult/magic/Gnosticism/alternative-spiritual-beliefs... can't be since some of it is a healthy reaction to evil culted religious traditions I so often rail against. so, I'm just trying to find a way to understand/map the territory.

That said I do see some repeating patterns that peeve me :)

for example, you might remember from
Rick DeLano's Terrific Quantum Science Film ... - Skeptiko
where rick went off on this "reductio ad absurdum" thing because I dared to suggest that the adam and eve story is ridiculous. rick's pushback didn't seem to match the alleged slight. I mean in what way was richard smoley characterization of christian cosmology different than what 90% of christians believe? it wasn't.

I got to say that I feel kind of the same with " do what thou wilt" I can't tell you how many times people in the magic community have tried to lecture me about the "real meaning."

the whole point of my interview with jasun (who was deeply involved as a practitioner before becoming an researcher)
Jasun Horsley, How Culture Shapers Spin Aleister ... - Skeptiko
was to demonstrate how Crowley's life was the embodiment of "do what the f*** you want... and create better than the creator gods." this also led to the pursuit of extreme transgressions as we discussed.

So this is another case where the pushback doesn't seem to fit the alleged slight against crowley. If ever there was a "do what thou wilt" guy (in the way I used the phrase) it was Crowley.
 
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