The #QAnon Conciousness Phenomena

Discussion in 'Extended Consciousness & Spirituality' started by Charlie Primero, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. Silence

    Silence Member

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    Can you actually be that out of touch with the populace to make such a statement? If so, you really should just stop posting on the topic because you are outright flaunting your ignorance.

    Donald Trump offended large swathes of Americans throughout his entire campaign and through his presidency. No media role was necessary according to the scores of voters with whom I've spoken over the past two years. His infamous Billy Bush narrative, his equivocating the white supremacist elements, the list goes on and on.

    You are free to indicate your preference to overlook such things. However, to say the reason many Americans "condemn" him is due to media manipulation is just ridiculous.
     
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  2. Silence

    Silence Member

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    Is there something one sided about this Jim? Honestly, reverse everything your wrote in the above quote as if coming from a pro Democratic perspective versus a pro Republican one and it would read equally as an (somewhat over) generalization.

    I just want to make sure you aren't trying to assert one side as owning the moral or proper highground here. They don't.
     
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  3. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I think you have to look at a president's performance overall, not pick on odd incidents that have almost certainly been blown up by the huge anti-Trump movement.

    If by the Billy Bush incident, you mean this:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/03/opinion/billy-bush-trump-access-hollywood-tape.html

    I think many men will have made some equally careless, joking remark in the past - nobody was as politically correct as we are nowadays. Perhaps it is fair to contrast this with someone in the Democratic party who undoubtedly put the same concept into practice:

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news...-new-yorks-attorney-general-of-physical-abuse


    It seems clear that many other Democrats knew that he behaved that way, and yet said nothing. This was a guy who might have been a candidate for president!

    Alternatively remember that one woman has accused Bill Clinton of rape, and Hillary of using heavy handed persuasion to persuade the victim not to report the attack. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think this accusation - aired during the election - was given much prominence except by Fox News.

    The primary task of a president is that he governs well and peacefully. I'd much prefer a president who jokes about pussies (that is not saying I like that language), than one who starts an actual war! Just visit a war cemetery, or a hospital trying to cope with the casualties if you need more persuasion.

    David
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  4. Silence

    Silence Member

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    And the overly tired, false equivalencies come out.

    So its mutually exclusive? An effective, non-war mongering president must also be a boor? The ends simply justify the means?

    Look, you made a statement consistent with many you've made in the past, lamenting the fact that so many Americans dislike the man "for no good reason". The reasons are plenty good, you've just chosen to adopt this binary, ends justifies the means approach to things. You've made it black and white. Plus, the war starting thing hasn't played itself out just yet. Trump has plenty of time to wreak havoc before his time is done; whether it be through traditional armed conflict or other, potentially even more dangerous means.
     
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  5. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Well it is now recognised for example that Kennedy had a fair few liaisons on the side. I'd guess there was a certain amount of boorishness in that - not to mention heartbreak. Bush senior seems to have always pawed women - and girls, and still does from his wheel chair.

    Maybe it would be better to exclude such people from politics, but that is not why the media is full of anti-Trump messages, because if it was, wouldn't they have exposed Eric Schneiderman a little sooner than they did. The press couldn't care a damn about even the most gross sexual misconduct, unless it is politically useful.

    I dare say Trump has had liasions with a fair few women, and he obviously didn't succeed by simply grabbing their genitals - the very fact that this joke is publicised rather than the accusations that Hillary pressurised a woman not to bring a rape charge against her husband, tells you (or at least it should tell you) how bogus is their indignation.
    Well how about starting with one really good reason. I don't think a joke is a 'plenty good' reason to disrespect an elected president.
    Perhaps we should create some sort of scale on which to judge politicians. I think such a scale would have to be logarithmic.

    Starting a war unnecessarily or on false pretences -1000,000 points.

    Murdering someone - 500,000 points

    Raping someone -100,000 points

    Coercing someone not to report a rape -20,000 points
    (or zero if it was genuinely done to try to protect the victim from additional harm)

    Fraud etc -1000 points

    Adultery -100 points

    Making frequent coarse jokes -10 points

    Making a single coarse joke -1 point

    Making the economy work +1000 points

    Avoiding a war that doesn't need fighting +1000,000 points

    Feel free to adjust the numbers, but I don't see any reasonable way you could score Trump lower than Hillary! Maybe try scoring one or two other US presidents while you are on with it.

    David
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
  6. http://conservativefighters.org/new...schumer-says-party-betraying-american-values/

    New York State Assemblyman Dov Hikind (D-Brooklyn) slammed Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer after he received a mailer from Schumer asking for donations, saying that from now on he will only support Republicans until the Democrats return to “sanity and honesty.”

    “Senator Schumer, in your letter you promise to fight for Democratic values and go on at great length to fully villainize the current administration, but you left out certain facts that my fellow Democrats, to say nothing of all Americans, should also be aware of,” Hikind’s statement begins.

    Hikind lists the following achievements by the Trump administration that have been good for America:

    • A strong economy, which economists project will grow even more.
    • Low unemployment rate and its record low among minorities.
    • U.S. energy dominance.
    • Strong U.S.-Israel relationship.
    • Dismantling of the Iran nuclear deal.
    • The administration’s opposition to harmful reverse-discrimination criteria that universities can use.
    • Denuclearization of North Korea.
    • Tax cuts.
    “You ask for a contribution, but the Democratic Party—which I am a lifelong member of—is currently betraying the ideals that our party once stood for: American values,” Hikind writes. “You yourself proposed that Representative Ellison head the party, but you must surely know that Ellison has stood with our nation’s leading hate monger Louis Farrakhan.”

    Hikind continues: “Senator Schumer, as a fellow Democrat, I ask you to work to restore sanity and honesty to our party so I can feel good about supporting it fully. Until then, I’m afraid the Republicans have my support.”
     
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  7. malf

    malf Member

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  8. malf

    malf Member

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  9. malf

    malf Member

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    I guess both sides have their dumb propaganda.

    upload_2018-7-8_19-26-43.jpeg

    upload_2018-7-8_19-29-18.jpeg
     
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  10. Bart V

    Bart V straw materialist Member

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  11. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    We are, and there is not. :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. malf

    malf Member

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  13. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Just to take one of your points, Senator McCain seems to have taken an intense visceral dislike to the president, and publicly banned him in advance from his funeral!

    I have no doubt that if Senator McCain had not insulted the president in that way, the president would have treated him with the dignity that he would have deserved. People insult President Trump in a truly vile way, and then howl when he insults them in return.

    David
     
  14. Did that happen before or after the time in the presidential campaign when Trump implied being a POW was not sufficient qualification for McCain to be considered a war hero?
     
  15. malf

    malf Member

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    The point of my post was that both sides have dumb PR. But now you’ve brought it up, how did McCain insult Trump. I recall Trump mocking McCain for getting caught in the Vitnam war. Was there something before that?

    Edit: I didn’t see Jim’s post about this before I posted...
     
  16. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I don't know because I don't follow these things that closely, but my general impression is that Trump has great respect for those who do the fighting - even though he wants to avoid conflict. That is very much my position too.

    My impression is that McCain has become something of a hawk in recent years, and that is why the two disagree.

    If you get advance notice that your time has come - as McCain has - I think it is better to use the remaining time in a dignified way.

    The problem in the US right now, is that politics has become conducted by personal insult. The president didn't start that, but if he just toughed it out without responding, I don't think it would stop it.

    It would be better if political disagreements became a lot less personal, but the Democrats seem to want to open up whole new fronts, such as confronting people in restaurants or other public places.

    Having just seen Jim's question, I don't know the chronology, but let me add that I think being a POW or a combatant in any war is a great qualification for high office, provided you intend to use it to foster peace.

    Remember the big lesson from the Vietnam war - it was started deliberately by US warships that went into NV territorial waters. Possibly JFK was assassinated to replace him with LBJ to facilitate this. The war was designed to prop up a hated dictator, and the war was lost.

    David
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018

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