The Quantum Soul

Discussion in 'Consciousness & Science' started by Haruhi, Apr 15, 2014.

  1. Haruhi

    Haruhi New

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    A proposal by Stuart Hameroff and Deepak Chopra to explain scientifically how an afterlife can occur:

    http://www.newdualism.org/papers/S.Hameroff/QSoulchap.pdf

    These ideas can relate to the idea that information is fundamental: if the information is fundamental and it does not require a substrate, everything we experience and do can be written in the fabric of space-time and remain after the death of our organic bodies. But this would a form of life or a inert stock of what we have been? I think that this would a form of life because what would printed in space-time would our will, that is, our ability to do things, not mere inert data, but living information. What do think?
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2015
  2. I enjoy Hammeroff's ability to go off the beaten path.

    Seems QM has a role to play in the following, so its place in the world of consciousness isn't all that crazy:

    Photosynthesis.

    DNA

    Mutation

    Bird Navigation

    Smell

    If qualia are fundamental to reality, I can see it being possible a form of consciousness survives even as it goes from the body to the greater world. The writer Warren Ellis has suggested the plant consciousness of ayahuasca and other plant medicines is actually the consciousness of ancestors shifting from corpse to soil to plant.

    If nothing else it's very interesting speculation. :)
     
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  3. ghost

    ghost New

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    It is probably better for all concerned that science is inept at dealing with the existence of spirits and the soul. Spirits are still mysterious and spooky. Paranormal phenomena by spirits is still amazing and awe inspiring. If science ever really tried to understand it, they would only ruin it and make it boring.
     
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  4. Max_B

    Max_B Member

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    I try not to get sucked into thinking too much about what comes next and stick to developing ideas from what I actually know... but I quite liked at least one idea I had a couple of years...

    ...this was the idea that we are temporarily caught on the face of some sort of expanding wave which pushes us up and out and allows us to have this experience. A bit like a surfer who catches and rides the face of a wave crest, and is temporarily elevated out of, and above, the level of the surrounding sea water. Eventually the wave passes us by, and we fall back down again to the level of the surrounding calm sea water behind the passing wave.
     
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  5. ghost

    ghost New

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    It reminds me of a trip to the beach last summer when the water was warm and the ocean waves were huge. I spent four hours in the water getting batted around by the waves. Warm fuzzy feelings.
     
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  6. Haruhi

    Haruhi New

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    I disagree. I hope that scientists continue to progress in this field as the psychic researchers have. The mysterious is important but not more than reveal the mysterious.
     
  7. Some discussion about this idea here:

    Space Time Life, Quantum Afterlife [Mindrolling Podcast]

    "Does consciousness exist outside the constraints of time and space? Does new science substantiate Tibetan vision, vindicate the lysergic realization? Rolling with life and afterlife cradled by the non-local, meanwhile, as usual, R & D exuding anecdotes, antidotes, a rant and a minimum of cant."
     
  8. ghost

    ghost New

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    Thank you Sciborg. I'll listen to it when I get home. :)
     
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  9. More on Lanza's idea of a quantum soul here:

    Does The Soul Exist? Evidence Says ‘Yes’

    He seems to be going with particular QM interpretations - Wigner's Friend comes to mind (Mind? ;))- though there are experimental results questioning realism and pointing to observer-participancy.

    He has a lot of other stuff on biocentrism at Psychology Today.
    I don't really get the inclusion of the multiverse, as my understanding was it was either the currently fictional multiverse OR consciousness as integral to reality.

    The nature of life stuff is interesting and connects with some of Josephson's ideas on how consciousness via observer-participancy relates to natural selection and fine tuning.

    Also ties into some of Peter Russell's stuff.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2014
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  10. Interesting post on this subject:

    Does the Soul Exist? Consciousness, Brain and Quantum Physics


    I've mentioned before that Stapp seems to have gotten the biology wrong, but at least some his ideas seem to have found their way into others' work on the topic.
     
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  11. A Physicist’s Explanation of Why the Soul May Exist

     
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  12. Following up on this -

    Quantum Jazz Biology - Interview with Dr. Mae-Wan Ho

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2014
  13. One thing I'm wary about is her belief that side effects are enough to forgo certain medications taken by her husband. I wish she'd gone into detail about which medications she's talking about, and for what illnesses/symptoms, and what level of expertise in biology is necessary to make these judgements over doctors.

    Anyway, regarding biology here's more of her work:

     
  14. Two videos of Braude that might be of interest:



    =-=-=

     
  15. http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~stapp/Compatibility.pdf
    Stapp is not saying QM gives a physical description of the soul or that QM explains how consciousness might be produced by the brain. He is saying QM allows for the possibility of the existence of non-physical souls - to rebut those who complain that survival goes against the laws of physics (ie to rebut those who won't consider empirical evidence that contradicts their faith in materialism, to rebut those who hold the unscientific view that theory trumps observation.). Stapp is not saying that the laws of QM can explain the properties of consciousness, for example, that psi is independent of time and distance. Those "anomolous" properties are evidence that consciousness is non-physical, and cannot be explained by quantum mechanics or any other physical process. Stapp is simply saying QM provides evidence that consciousness is non-physical and explains how a non-physical soul can interact with matter. He is hypothesizing that a soul may be the aggregation of non-physical elements that have their own dynamical laws different from the dynamical laws that govern matter.

    Stapp's argument requires interpreting quantum mechanics such that consciousness is non-physical and is required to collapse a wave function. But this interpretation is rejected by materialists so I don't think this elaboration of Copenhagen QM is going to have much influence on anybody's beliefs.

    Also, I would very much like to know what he means when he writes: "Because the psycho-physical events associated with bio-systems are designed to receive mental inputs..." Designed? By whom? Design is so obviously the best explanation for so many "natural" phenomena that many who would like to deny it are unable to rid themselves of that opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014
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  16. Lazlo: Consciousness in the Cosmos

     
  17. Haruhi

    Haruhi New

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    However, the evidence on NDEs, apparitions, mediumship and who remember their past lives points to that the afterlife is individualized, because individuals remain after their deaths.
     
  18. Quantum Tuna

    Note that macroscopic objects exhibiting odd "quantum" behavior has been recorded, depending on the type of behavior in question.

    In fact, quantum mechanics seems to be a major part of biological systems:

    Quantum weirdness is everywhere in life
     
  19. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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    I think it ranks high up on the scale of ineffable silliness. They continue to believe that the parameters of physical existence apply to the non-physical.
     

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