Very interesting and important topic Reece, thanks for posting.
I responded to a simlar topic on the old forum, and have simply cut and pasted it to share some of my thoughts with reference to an example that Carl Jung brought up about some of the unbelieve acts of Joseph Mengele during world war 2.
His question was broadly around modern mans lack of a spiritual force in his life which acts as moral compass, and the supremacy at this time of the materialist reductionist understanding of mans place in the universe and its consequences for his moral nature.
I argued that when faced with crimes of such an abhorent nature, one really requires a framework broader than materialism is prepared to grant in order to cope with such acts, a framework for example that spirituality does provide in its claim that the narrative of ones life does not end with the death of the body. There will be time enough for balance to be restored.
A materialist model however leads to an absolutely futile scenario, where really, anything goes, because that is how the mechanical universe works. As long as you don't violate the physical laws of a materialist universe, anything goes, there are no moral imperatives. Only nihilism is there to wipe the slate clean so to speak, however, the slate can never be cleaned in this way, if anything, nihilism adds to the horror.
Below is his original post:
Originally Posted by Carl Jung
Something that strikes me as problematic for modern man is the impossibility of coping with moral horror under the physicalist metaphysics that currently reigns supreme in western culture.
I read about Joseph Mengele this weekend. On one occasion he is rumored to have thrown children into a pit of fire where they were burned to death. The true horror of the act is that he deliberately only used twins in this experiment throwing one twin to the flames whilst giving the other a stick with which to push the burning twin back into the fire when it attempted to crawl free.
The horrors of such acts really present me with the sense that only those who believe in life after death and judgement can cope with the problem within its accepted metaphysic.
Modern man must stand bewildered and can really only put his hope in Nihilism which few seem willing to do.
What is your take on moral horror?
I just came across this and felt compelled to share some thoughts (and emotions) on it.
Ones first impulse (as with all deeply heinous atrocities) is disbelief. One finds oneself wanting to consign such a story to the "myth" pile. However, sadly there is no reason this cannot be true.
What actually occurs to me that from a philosophical and moral position, it is really only the true physicalist atheist who's world view necessarily culminates in Nihilism that will be capable of such an act. Or at least, within a cognitive dissonance framework, it is only the Nihilist whos world paradigm will not be challenged by carrying out such an act.
For the true physicalist "I am a biological robot" camp, there really is no act which poses a moral dilemma. Being a biological mechanism that is wound up, and then pointed in the direction of ultimate anihilation and let go of, there are no such things as moral acts, as a moral act requires free agency.
The physicalist ought to be entirely comfortable with the unbelievable acts of Mengele, at least from a Moral imperative.
When I hear about such things, I must admit to personally only being able to cope with them against a background of belief in an afterlife, order, and purpose in the universe. I do not need to appeal to any stereotypical Christian judgement scene to cope with this, but a notion that the universe strives towards homeostasis in all things, particularly moral/spiritual things. A sense that things are worked out over a greater span of time than our fleeting life spans, and that such gigantic black holes in the moral tapestries of our lives cannot be simply ploughed over by father time and his scythe and leveled out.
Here is were the notion of Karma is a philosophical attempt to systematise, formalise and standardise that sense of a universal need to find homeostasis in the moral dimensions of our existence.
i agree with you, in that it will only be those who believe in life after death that can find a way to seek that homeostasis (justice, balance, atonement, reparation etc). There are no tools in the Nihilistic box to attempt to restore balance to this scenario - or any moral scenario for that matter.
How horrific. My dear dear God.
Originally Posted by Carl Jung
I think there are actually some acts of love and altruism that are so pure and good that they, in a sense, can't be contained and explained in this world or this lifetime.
The beauty of a new life drawing its first breath, the selfless acts of giving up ones life for others, the love of Ideals (such as fairness, justice and hope), transcendent experiences, the refusal to take a life, duties held against ones self-interest and more..
These somehow feels like signposts, pointing to a more developed view of existence.
How beautifully put.
It occurs to me that these pure and good acts you point to are at the other end of the spectrum to the heinous acts of Mengele, which I argued similarly cannot be contained or explained with the span of this brief lifetime.
They push one at a very deep and emotional level to intuit a broader background against which such acts seem to fit more properly.