Transgender phenomena and past lives: any thoughts

Okay? You did tell me to get off my "high horse," when really I am just passionate about these issues. But maybe I should rethink my phrasing? I am not a "hater" or anything like that. But yes, I will refrain for now, unless asked specific questions asked in good faith. :)
I think if you give others the benefit of the doubt when you reply, they tend to do the same for you.

For example, I thought that JD's post unfortunately hit upon some archaic and scientifically unproven gender sterotpyes, but it was clear from the rest of his post that he is not a bigot, or even being disagreeable. Pointing out the weaknesses in people's arguments in a way that might be perceived as personal criticism makes people defensive.

I think you make many insightful observations and comments. It would be a shame if you decided not to participate entirely on this topic.
 
I think if you give others the benefit of the doubt when you reply, they tend to do the same for you.

For example, I thought that JD's post unfortunately hit upon some archaic and scientifically unproven gender sterotpyes, but it was clear from the rest of his post that he is not a bigot, or even being disagreeable. Pointing out the weaknesses in people's arguments in a way that might be perceived as personal criticism makes people defensive.

I think you make many insightful observations and comments. It would be a shame if you decided not to participate entirely on this topic.
JD's initial post indulged in completely regressive thinking. And I never called him a bigot, or any other name - he implied that I was a bigot in his response and basically said I was "full of hate." And he was pretty disagreeable about it! But that's okay, he doesn't have to like me.

I appreciate that you think I have made insightful comments and observations, but isn't pointing out weaknesses in people's arguments kind of the point on these forums? We have pages and pages of that on psi research. I didn't attack his personal life or experience, though I can see how he may have felt that way, and I did apologize in my response to his second post because I did think I made some assumptions at one point. Also, he started to sound a bit like MRA/redpiller, so I probably was not as kind as I should have been.

But it's really exhausting to argue about whether biological sex exists, with all of its consequences.

I am also offending a lot of people whom I don't want to offend. I am open to getting PMs if people have questions. Not sure I want to discuss this on the forum anymore.
 
BTW, this petition was started by a gay man. Sadly, the forum he ran to start a conversation is now offline.

I do feel it is a conversation to be had, but it is now taboo.

https://www.change.org/p/human-righ...e-out-magazine-huffpost-gay-voices-drop-the-t

We are a group of gay/bisexual men and women who have come to the conclusion that the transgender community needs to be disassociated from the larger LGB community; in essence, we ask that organizations such as the Human Rights Campaign, GLAAD, Lambda Legal and media outlets such as The Advocate, Out, Huff Post Gay Voices, etc., stop representing the transgender community as we feel their ideology is not only completely different from that promoted by the LGB community (LGB is about sexual orientation, trans is about gender identity), but is ultimately regressive and actually hostile to the goals of women and gay men.

There are several areas in which the ideology of the trans community is at odds with or actively hostile to that of women and gay men; among the most important are:

• The vilification and harassment of women and gay/lesbian individuals who openly express disagreement with the trans ideology; a simple disagreement over an issue can result in responses that range from insults (“transphobic bigot”) to threats of physical harm (often, in the case of women, rape) and even death; the harassment by the transgender community of prominent individuals ranging from iconic gay rights activist/drag queen RuPaul and legendary feminist Germaine Greer has been particularly loathsome.

• The infringement of the rights of individuals, particularly women, to perform normal everyday activities in traditional safe spaces based on sex; this is most pernicious in the case of men claiming to be transgender demanding access to bathrooms, locker rooms, women’s shelters and other such spaces reserved for women.

• The appropriation and re-writing of gay and lesbian history and culture, most notably attempting to re-cast the majority gay white men who participated in the Stonewall riots as transgender, specifically casting as “transgender” men who adopted feminine attire but still identified as men (they called themselves transvestites, which is not the same as the modern transgender identity); particularly frustrating was the fact that media outlets such as The Advocate, Out and Huff Post Gay Voices, who should have been the first to point out the fallacy of this notion, actually went along with the lie.

• Most troubling, by persuading parents and health professionals to diagnose children as young as four as transgender, despite considerable research that shows that more than 90 percent of children who express “gender dysphoria” at a young age grow out of it by adolescence and, in most cases, grow up to be well-adjusted gay men and women; ideologically, it runs counter to traditional LGB and feminist philosophy – whereas feminists and gay men/women advocate for expanding and re-defining gender concepts, the trans movement is regressive, insisting upon re-asserting and codifying classic gender concepts of what is masculine and what is feminine.

Please note that we are not advocating intolerance or prejudice against the transgender community: we recognize and respect the right of adults to determine their own path in life, including transitioning to the opposite gender if they so wish. However, that cannot occur by infringing upon the rights of women, gay men and children.

At the very least, a discussion must be opened up to these issues, which for too long are being suppressed and censored – they are genuine concerns that need to be aired. In the end, we feel that the transgender ideology is not compatible with the rights of women, gay men and children and ask that the organizations and media outlets mentioned above disassociate themselves from the transgender movement and return to representing their base support of gay men and lesbians.
 
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here, but it's clear that tone does make a difference. Personally a few seconds of listening to an evangelical preacher is enough to turn me right off. But someone like Rupert Sheldrake might say in effect the same thing and I find myself wanting to hear more. Sometimes it's just a matter of personality differences of course, but perhaps where things become irritating is where it seems to come across not simply as "this is my view" but rather "this is the way things are". At one time I used to precede almost everything I said with "In my opinion", and I don't do it so much nowadays, but that did seem to be a good place to be - though it made things stand out even more when other people didn't do the same.
 
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here, but it's clear that tone does make a difference. Personally a few seconds of listening to an evangelical preacher is enough to turn me right off. But someone like Rupert Sheldrake might say in effect the same thing and I find myself wanting to hear more. Sometimes it's just a matter of personality differences of course, but perhaps where things become irritating is where it seems to come across not simply as "this is my view" but rather "this is the way things are". At one time I used to precede almost everything I said with "In my opinion", and I don't do it so much nowadays, but that did seem to be a good place to be - though it made things stand out even more when other people didn't do the same.
Yes, no one likes my "tone" -- I sound too "uppity," I guess -- but addressing my arguments would be nice.Though I don't really like the comparison to an evangelical preacher.

Over and out.
 
Yes, no one likes my "tone" -- I sound too "uppity," I guess -- but addressing my arguments would be nice.Though I don't really like the comparison to an evangelical preacher.

Over and out.
Ok. I'm going to leave you to it. Save for one final comment: your tone will determine whether some people are inclined to engage with your argument. I'm not going to decompose your comments and point out where you might have phrased things differently to avoid irritating people and so have got more of the dialogue you want. Perhaps a friend will do it for you.
 
Ok. I'm going to leave you to it. Save for one final comment: your tone will determine whether some people are inclined to engage with your argument. I'm not going to decompose your comments and point out where you might have phrased things differently to avoid irritating people and so have got more of the dialogue you want. Perhaps a friend will do it for you.
So, no critique of my arguments or even examples of what exactly is wrong with my "tone." I don't think I am very different from most on here about expressing thoughts and ideas. Certainly I am not worse then FDRS/Sexy. I mean, people are more respectful to posters on the Donald Trump thread, and that is pretty heated. Can you at least tell me where my tone was wrong in expressing my thoughts?

The "friend will do it for you" sounds a bit condescending, though. Do you tell others here on the forum to do that when there is a contentious debate? Should I reconsider how I post on other topics on this forum because of this problem I have?

I retract my statement to Sciborg about enjoying these forums for free debate a few posts back.

I get that I said something on this thread that upset you, and it's very obvious you don't like my ideas and opinions and statements. But, I would never tell you to have a "friend" look over your reaction and posts.

Yes, I am being kind of snarky in this post, but your reaction to me and my posts really baffles me.
 
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So, no critique of my arguments or even examples of what exactly is wrong with my "tone." I don't think I am very different from most on here about expressing thoughts and ideas. Certainly I am not worse then FDRS/Sexy. I mean, people are more respectful to posters on the Donald Trump thread, and that is pretty heated. Can you at least tell me where my tone was wrong in expressing my thoughts?

The "friend will do it for you" sounds a bit condescending, though. Do you tell others here on the forum to do that when there is a contentious debate? Should I reconsider how I post on other topics on this forum because of this problem I have?

I retract my statement to Sciborg about enjoying these forums for free debate a few posts back.

I get that I said something on this thread that upset you, and it's very obvious you don't like my ideas and opinions and statements. But, I would never tell you to have a "friend" look over you reaction and posts.

Yes, I am being kind of snarky in this post, but your reaction to me and my posts really baffles me.
I've had enough. I'm not spending any more time on this. Do whatever you like.
 
I'm not sure any more. I thought I was an innocent bystander. But I get the feeling now that I may be standing idly around whistling, staring in another direction, while nonchalantly pouring fuel on the flames. Sorry, about that.
 
S

Sciborg_S_Patel

I'm not sure any more. I thought I was an innocent bystander. But I get the feeling now that I may be standing idly around whistling, staring in another direction, while nonchalantly pouring fuel on the flames. Sorry, about that.
It's a hard issue to discuss, probably one of the most controversial issues around because many of us are bringing the life experience of ourselves into it - gender/sex is something we all have after all. And it seems many of us know loved ones who might be affected one way or another.

To the board's credit, this is probably the only place I might dare to discuss such things.
 
I think the cult angle is actually much more useful in the transgender case. There seem to be a lot of similarities between the mind control of a cult and the kind of thinking that evolves within the trans community. Especially in the way that they surround themselves with other trans folks. They hire trans furniture movers, go to trans therapists, etc. Live with trans roommates.
 
I think the cult angle is actually much more useful in the transgender case. There seem to be a lot of similarities between the mind control of a cult and the kind of thinking that evolves within the trans community. Especially in the way that they surround themselves with other trans folks. They hire trans furniture movers, go to trans therapists, etc. Live with trans roommates.
Sorry, could you expand on that? (If you feel like it...)

Yes, I am editing this comment to say I do think trans ideology indulges in group-think, but I think this extends beyond trans ideology -- it extends to the modern "left" in general. I think post-modernism has infected the left, and it is a huge problem, as I think "pomo" deliberately keeps us from naming our oppressors and who is doing what to whom. It is trying to take the language away from us to describe who is oppressing us, whether it is banks, corporations, the State.. and has us in a tizzy about stupid stuff like, "What is a woman?" A woman is an adult human female, in this material reality -- but let's argue about that endlessly about what a woman is, while meanwhile, there is this other stuff happening over here -------->

I despise the new left and its "intersectionality" and "inclusion." It's actually thought-terminating and nasty.

There. I said it. Hate on me! :)
 
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Sorry, could you expand on that? (If you feel like it...) Trans furniture movers??
There is a strong compulsion in the trans community that when you need a service you seek out someone first who is trans to provide that service. I don't really have an issue with that. Lots of communities do that for sure. I'm still thinking about all this. But the trans/queer community is one that is very strong on having specific thoughts and feelings about a lot of issues. I think when people "isolate" themselves, even if the isolation isn't complete and that when interactions among members are "self-confirming" and "molding" to certain attitudes, that this can lead to a kind of "cult think" among members. I could be off base on this.

I think it comes down partly to homogeneousness of "thought." I think that, say black people seeking out black service providers are going to find a diversity of opinion about core issues that may not be so prevalent in the queer/transgender community.
 
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