Tricia Barker, Life After Near Death Experience Ain’t Always Easy |469|

#21
We all have our own perspective, yours is ok, However only a small proportion of NDEs are able to be accompanied by certified medical evidence. Even if there was a medical trauma, it may not be documented. I don't see rejecting 99.9% of NDEs (which might be a consequence of your proposal) as a useful or practical way forward.
Hello Alex and Typoz,

I’m not suggesting we dismiss or don’t pay attention to NDEs absent medical evidence. I interviewed an ND Experiencer without requesting to see any evidence that her tale is real. Furthermore, when massive amounts of these NDEs overlap, we can of course be highly confident that the experiences described are ‘real’. People really see dead relatives and encounter the Love of God etc. All the stuff Jeffery Long documented.

What I am saying is that a tiny percentage of NDE accounts promote the—what I consider to be—entirely psychologically destructive views of a theologically exclusive cult. Here, the aforementioned God of Love is transformed into a God of Judgement, who condemns those who don’t believe in him to fiery torment for all eternity.

I personally find it fascinating to take these accounts seriously and try and understand what gives rise to these different visions of the Almighty. Indeed, mystical literature throughout the ages contains accounts of Hellish visions transforming into Divine Love. But! I also think we must recognise that it would only take a small number of fabricated accounts in this area to convince us a phenomenon was going on that really isn’t. Then we’d be doing the equivalent of discussing how Peter Popoff performed his faith healing, without recognising he was simply a conman.

To put it another way, it will be fascinating to see if Scientologists ever start having Scientology themed NDEs. It might tell us a lot about the phenomenon. But we will have to also bear in mind that Scientology is a vicious cult, more than willing to fabricate accounts for its own promotion. I suggest the same standard be applied to Christianity.
 
#22
What I am saying is that a tiny percentage of NDE accounts promote the—what I consider to be—entirely psychologically destructive views of a theologically exclusive cult. Here, the aforementioned God of Love is transformed into a God of Judgement, who condemns those who don’t believe in him to fiery torment for all eternity.

I personally find it fascinating to take these accounts seriously and try and understand what gives rise to these different visions of the Almighty. Indeed, mystical literature throughout the ages contains accounts of Hellish visions transforming into Divine Love. But! I also think we must recognise that it would only take a small number of fabricated accounts in this area to convince us a phenomenon was going on that really isn’t. Then we’d be doing the equivalent of discussing how Peter Popoff performed his faith healing, without recognising he was simply a conman.
I wonder if it is worth taking Jurgen Ziewe seriously - he claims to have visited many distinct regions of the greater reality. I wonder if the various religious groups exist up there in such regions. That might be an interesting alternative to trying to explain these exceptional NDE's away.

David
 
#23
Tricia is a breath of fresh air.

Yeah, the other side is the other side; not this world. On the other side, it seems that souls are separated by focus of consciousness, vibrational level, whatever you want to call it. In this realm, we're all mixed together, both light and dark and everything in between. So the methods and functions of the other side don't really work here.

I don't get why all of these other NDErs (not Tricia) want to be prophets telling us all how it really is. Guessing $s + ego has something to do with it. Which proves that enlightenment, to the extent that anyone has even experienced such a thing, is fleeting.
 
#24
I wonder if it is worth taking Jurgen Ziewe seriously - he claims to have visited many distinct regions of the greater reality. I wonder if the various religious groups exist up there in such regions. That might be an interesting alternative to trying to explain these exceptional NDE's away.

David
David, I think that the other realms are the foundational grounds for this one and/or vice versa. Therefore, there are realms of fanatics, assholes and adherents of dogmas there as there are here. As below/so above. So above/as below.
 
#25
That was lovely.
Imma going away and process it:D
I love that name, Aquila ka Hecate! I used to work w/ emotionally disturbed high school students & one of them was part Native American. He was in w/ a few full blood Native American boys in the area & that was the time Dancing With Wolves was out & it was VERY popular w/ them. At one point, this student told me he & his friends had given me an Indian name. I don't know how to spell it since they just told me what it was. I later figured out they got it from DWW by putting together 'smart' & 'buffalo' from that movie. I was still flattered by the effort, nonetheless. What's funny is Heyahho Totanka, which means 'smart buffalo" is kind of a back-handed compliment, since buffalo are supposed to be even dumber than cattle, so smart buffalo would make me about a smart as a dog, I suppose, in their estimation!
 
#26
David, I think that the other realms are the foundational grounds for this one and/or vice versa. Therefore, there are realms of fanatics, assholes and adherents of dogmas there as there are here. As below/so above. So above/as below.
One of Robert A. Monroe's stories from Journeys Out of the Body goes like this: Bob was out cruising about one night & was blocked by this blazing being of light from traveling further. It started directing this painful electric charge through him & telling him it was his Creator & to bow down, etc. It's been quite a while since I read that, but I think Bob just didn't react at all & the entity just turned away/let him go. So, amen, so to speak, the other side has it's goombahs, screw-balls, & so on, just like we do here. Fear & domination is their thing, so don't fall for that trap.
 
#27
What I got from Tricia this time is the need to heal quickly, to let go of the trauma & move on. At first, I didn't really understand the urgency, but then I think I got it right now. She's encouraging people to do the work of healing because delaying it invites opportunities for one's personal suffering to lead to doing harm to others, by, let's say, just taking out one's bad feelings on someone else, whether they deserve it or not. Like Alex said, Anneke Lucas saw the fear in the eyes of her rapists, which I interpret as what drove them in part to abuse her. Fear at what had been done to them, fear that they needed to hurt someone before they were harmed instead, and so on in many other permutations.
 
#28
Tricia's statement that most jumped out for me was when she said following her NDE she had the "biological condition of depression." For me this is the crux of Skeptiko. The claim that depression is a biological condition is the cornerstone of Brain=Mind. Psychiatric medicines are the most profitable substances on the planet...by far. 50 millions Americans ingest them daily. Even as scientific research confirms their lack of efficacy, their addictive properties and their severe medical side effects, the Brain=Mind the industry hardly misses a beat. A new market for psych meds is emerging in post-Covid patients, 20% of whom are being diagnosed with psychiatric disorders.

If you remove Brain=Mind, depression is no longer supported as a biological condition. If depression is not a biological condition, why treat it with a toxic chemical that damages the brain and other organs? This is the great deception that creates the greatest profits for industry.
 
#29
If you remove Brain=Mind, depression is no longer supported as a biological condition. If depression is not a biological condition, why treat it with a toxic chemical that damages the brain and other organs? This is the great deception that creates the greatest profits for industry.
I have my own reservations regarding pharma's mental health medicines, but I'm struggling with the notion that removing brain=mind somehow declares traditional western medical treatments. I guess that would make sense of one is stating that brain and mind have absolutely no relationship; even as a filter, conduit, etc. I haven't made that leap myself.

So it seems logical that if one accepts a brain/mind connection or interplay, that chemical abnormalities could have an impact on some portion of the mind and thus western treatments, current or potentially future, could provide some benefit.
 
#30
I have my own reservations regarding pharma's mental health medicines, but I'm struggling with the notion that removing brain=mind somehow declares traditional western medical treatments. I guess that would make sense of one is stating that brain and mind have absolutely no relationship; even as a filter, conduit, etc. I haven't made that leap myself.

So it seems logical that if one accepts a brain/mind connection or interplay, that chemical abnormalities could have an impact on some portion of the mind and thus western treatments, current or potentially future, could provide some benefit.
Perhaps I overstated my post. I am not arguing against western medical treatments. I quoted Tricia Barker saying that depression is a biological condition. Based on the last 40 years of medical research, there is no evidence that substantiates that depression is a brain disorder. Most people believe that depression is caused by chemical or neurological imbalances in the brain. The research does not support this.

If depression is not a brain disorder, why is it treated with medications that have not been shown to be effective, are highly addictive and bring significant medical side effects? The answer is profit.
 
#31
I wonder how much psychiatric medications rely on the placebo effect? One of my students was diagnosed w/ manic-depression. She told me at first that she used yoga postures to deal w/ it, but she got lazy & started taking Zoloft instead. I had periodic 'black dog' depression in my mid-twenties; all I had to do to relieve it was 1 to 2 hours of yoga. I'm sure some of the resistance to rejecting Brain=Mind is the loss of profit in a number of areas. There's still a lot of people who think speed for ADHD is the way to go.
 
#32
I wonder how much psychiatric medications rely on the placebo effect? One of my students was diagnosed w/ manic-depression. She told me at first that she used yoga postures to deal w/ it, but she got lazy & started taking Zoloft instead. I had periodic 'black dog' depression in my mid-twenties; all I had to do to relieve it was 1 to 2 hours of yoga. I'm sure some of the resistance to rejecting Brain=Mind is the loss of profit in a number of areas. There's still a lot of people who think speed for ADHD is the way to go.
The symptoms of emotional disorders are painfully real. Depression is a serious and debilitating disorder, as is psychosis, mania and others. Anxiety can be debilitating and does not easily subside. The questions are whether these symptoms:
  1. Are caused by neurological or chemical imbalances in the brain?
  2. Are they effectively and safely treated by psychiatric medication?
The medical research is not ambiguous. The answer to both questions is no.

Stimulants help to keep people alert and focused. That's no mystery. ADHD medications are stimulants. They are effective for drowsiness and lack of focus. They cause fewer medical side effects. They are less addictive. The diagnostic category ADD and ADHD are non-scientific and there doesn't appear to be an "ADHD brain" any more than there is an "Anxious brain" or Depressed brain."
 
#33
Thanks for the clear picture. My mother suffered persistent depression when she turned seventeen. She even had ECT which I think did her no good. Later on, a doctor said she had an under-active thyroid gland, which wasn't exactly hypothyroidism, but he recommended afternoon naps. In my experience, there does seem to be a relationship between a good oxygen level in the blood & no depression, since another of my 'cures' before I discovered Hatha Yoga was extended bicycling. Even now, if I get a droopy attitude, an hour or two of garden work clears my head well.
 
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