Trump Consciousness

EDIT: So you glanced at the links and decided that you didn't like what they say.
No I scanned them and saw a lot of data that had no analysis. The task of refuting your erroneous suppositions based on the links you posted - as an effort to substantiate your argument was simply not worth my while. Besides there was nothing there I was not essentially familiar with in any case and nothing that seemed to give your argument any strength or add to my counter argument.

You seem to have a talent for deciding you know what others think based on your belief that they can think only as you presume. This is unfortunate. It leads you to argue by making offensive remarks and characterisations rather than disciplined and well-informed argument. It is disappointing when a debate descends into such response.

For the record, I have been exploring religion and belief for decades. Humans are not so unidimensional as to be motivated by single factors such as religious belief. There are multiple and complex factors - and if you don't have a grasp of them Pew's data is meaningless at best and a tool for misrepresentation at worst. It is virtually impossible to arrive at a genuinely informed and balanced POV from inside a political camp - or inside a set of culturally conditioned presumptions.

As Alex reminds us from time to time, Skepticism is an inquiry to perpetuate doubt. It is my experience that the more one seeks confirmations of biases the more one finds that the grounds for certainty disappear. We are left with truths that religious extremism is a dangerous thing to cultivate, or provoke. We are left with the truth that profound existential fear channelled through religious faith is especially perilous in our times. It must be watch for and countered.

The worst thing, the most dangerous thing, we can do is hand over to politicians intent on tapping the fear of a portion of an electorate the job of analysing the threat and devising a response to it. The next worse thing is imagining an religion is inherently dangerous of itself. Not only is this a facile analysis of a deeply complex matter, it perpetuates antagonisms and deepens the sense of existential threat.
 
No I scanned them and saw a lot of data that had no analysis. The task of refuting your erroneous suppositions based on the links you posted - as an effort to substantiate your argument was simply not worth my while. Besides there was nothing there I was not essentially familiar with in any case and nothing that seemed to give your argument any strength or add to my counter argument..
But I'm supposed to take freakin Noam Chomsky seriously? And if you can't read and assimilate simple poll data, then your opinion is clearly uninformed because you can't process information.

For the record, I have been exploring religion and belief for decades. Humans are not so unidimensional as to be motivated by single factors such as religious belief. There are multiple and complex factors - and if you don't have a grasp of them Pew's data is meaningless at best and a tool for misrepresentation at worst. It is virtually impossible to arrive at a genuinely informed and balanced POV from inside a political camp - or inside a set of culturally conditioned presumptions...
Blah blah sophistry ...excuse making for the inexcusable because leftist brainwashing.


The first link I posted contained the results of a wide variety of different polls, some even done by outlets in Muslim countries and owned by Muslims. Pretty amazing that so many diverse polls come back with the same answers. Over and over again. I suspect that's why you're not attempting to absorb the information. It tells you loud and clear what you don't want to hear.


The worst thing, the most dangerous thing, we can do is hand over to politicians intent on tapping the fear of a portion of an electorate the job of analysing the threat and devising a response to it..

Are you serious? This is something I agree with and it's why I vote for Trump. The leftists in the USA fear monger about Christians, who they hate, and then they tell us we are all going to die in a few years because of global warming and that we need to vote for them to prevent it. Do you even read and think about the words you write?

You want to demonize Trump, yet my other choices are going on and on about the need to elect them and to alter our entire society because climate change is going to end life on earth in 12 years. They go on and on about how white Christian racists are going to kill all of the minorities and gay people. I mean that's pretty much all they have been saying for the past three years and they're ramping up that rhetoric with the election approaching. It's all one hears in the leftist media
, which is almost all of the media.

You have helped make the case for Trump who does none of that - though the media lies and accuses him of it when he wants to secure our borders.

The next worse thing is imagining an religion is inherently dangerous of itself. Not only is this a facile analysis of a deeply complex matter, it perpetuates antagonisms and deepens the sense of existential threat.
No. What you wrote is a facile way of thinking that enables cowards to worm their way through life never calling right from wrong and therefore never having to take a stand. It's why you're ok with human sacrifice, cannibalism and Satanism.
 
Last edited:
(Goodonya for changing from fuck to screw) but still, this is hate-speech, not political discussion. Your comments are full of aggressive condemnations, threats and abuse -this is spiritual fraudulence..with your fairy-painting rainbow palette avatar. You reveal your true self in these comments Eric. Try to not say them, it will be better for your spiritual progress :)
LOL. I write about how liberals want to control everything down to your very thoughts and, voila! here you come to validate what I said. You call it "hate speech" and I say it is, obviously, "truth". It is you who have revealed yourself.

Well since you're going to throw me in prison now for bad thinking you can add to my charges that I think there are only two genders; female and male - not 87 (or whatever the count is up to now). because you know, in places like Canada, virtuous, truth loving and compassionate leftists have created laws that state that not recognizing any of the imaginary 85 other genders is a hate crime and comes with legal as well as social penalties. One's life can be ruined for refusing to repeat the leftist lie. Yep. Screw you guys. I will fight you until my last breath, as any free and honorable person should do.
 
Last edited:
Trump has, once again, proven to not be a war monger. There was pressure to attack Iran after the Houthi drone/missile attack on Saudi oil production facilities. But Trump held firm. So much for the whole "He's crazy! Irrational!" shtick put out there by Leftists. Trump has proven to be a completely level headed leader.

I'm pretty sure, based on her past behavior, that Hillary never saw a regime change plan she didn't like Clinton would have been bombing Iran and creating a massive war.
 
(imo) Noam Chomsky is one of the greatest political analysts of our time and Michael Patterson is one of the most thoughtful on this forum.
You can't see this or even credit either with intelligence or validity because they don't agree with your position.

Since you use the term 'liberal' so often, here are a few dictionary definitions (you are bound to dislike or disagree with, sadly)

1) favourable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs (progressive: favouring progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, especially in political matters)

2) favouring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal expression, especially as secured by governmental protection of civil liberties

3) open-minded or tolerant, especially free from prejudice or bigotry or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.

4) characterised by generosity and willingness to give abundantly

5) not strict or rigorous

According to these, there is very little evidence that liberals would want to control "your very thoughts". 'Live and let live' would be a simplified definition of liberal values. Hate-speech: speaking from a position of hate (my definition). You are of course entitled to 'your truth' but so therefore are others, but that is something you appear unwilling to allow.

Here's another dictionary definition: discussion: informal debate; an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., especially to explore solutions. I don't see your contribution aligning with any of these. Instead you use this platform to berate anyone who doesn't agree with you. This is contrary to the spirit of Skeptiko.

As far as spiritual development is concerned, I claim a very slight edge on you because I at least feel sympathy for you, your relentless anger and the stress you must feel from living in such a negative frame of mind.
 
Last edited:
Since Bernie Sanders was 'taken out' of the running, Trump was described as the lesser of two evils, I agree with that.
But he has incited racist antagonism within America and has not arranged for the withdrawal of American troops currently in dominant positions around the world. I suppose we are so involved with discussing American politics because we are all held to ransom by its fear-mongering, economically-manipulative, worldwide terrorising behaviour. Trump has proved very ineffective in dispelling that. But then, that's not your concern is it?
 
Since Bernie Sanders was 'taken out' of the running, Trump was described as the lesser of two evils, I agree with that.
But he has incited racist antagonism within America and has not arranged for the withdrawal of American troops currently in dominant positions around the world. I suppose we are so involved with discussing American politics because we are all held to ransom by its fear-mongering, economically-manipulative, worldwide terrorising behaviour. Trump has proved very ineffective in dispelling that. But then, that's not your concern is it?
Look. It is the Left who are inciting racial tensions. What has Trump done in that direction? What? Sought border security and that somehow gets redefined as racism. By redefining something that every country on the planet does as "racist" the Left is stirring up racial tensions. Just as Obama did with his phony rhetoric about racist police killing unarmed blacks (12 per year according to FBI statistics - and most of those were attacking a police officer and trying to grab the officers' guns).

Every day and night the leftist media rants on and on about racism in America when most of us look around and don't see it (that includes Blacks, Hispanics, Asians - who are all doing much better under the Trump economy).

Making something up and then complaining about it isn't the fault of the target of your hallucination.

BTW, I find your claim to be more spiritually advanced than I am kind of sick. Who goes around measuring virtue and proclaiming oneself to be more virtuous?

You say I'm stressed, etc and then you go off on how stressed you are because of Trump and America. This would be hilarious stuff if it wasn't so twisted and so typical of a large borg that is politically active.
 
Since Bernie Sanders was 'taken out' of the running, Trump was described as the lesser of two evils, I agree with that.
But he has incited racist antagonism within America and has not arranged for the withdrawal of American troops currently in dominant positions around the world. I suppose we are so involved with discussing American politics because we are all held to ransom by its fear-mongering, economically-manipulative, worldwide terrorising behaviour. Trump has proved very ineffective in dispelling that. But then, that's not your concern is it?
Honestly, President Trump hasn't been given a decent run yet - first he had the phoney Russia probe, and at the same time he had the NeoCons, such as Senator McCabe attacking him because he wasn't a warmonger! When he announced plans to pull the troops out of Syria, there was one of those fake gas attacks (presumable the NeoCons had something to do with that), designed to pull him back into a Syrian war. I'd say he dodged that pretty well!

As for shouting "Racist" at anyone, that is just absurdly vague. If they think Trump did something racist why can't they be specific? I would imagine that everyone is getting sick of hearing vague attacks - racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic,......... Anyone can shout them, because they don't have to follow through with any specific criticism.

David
 
Honestly, President Trump hasn't been given a decent run yet - first he had the phoney Russia probe, and at the same time he had the NeoCons, such as Senator McCabe attacking him because he wasn't a warmonger! When he announced plans to pull the troops out of Syria, there was one of those fake gas attacks (presumable the NeoCons had something to do with that), designed to pull him back into a Syrian war. I'd say he dodged that pretty well!

As for shouting "Racist" at anyone, that is just absurdly vague. If they think Trump did something racist why can't they be specific? I would imagine that everyone is getting sick of hearing vague attacks - racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic,......... Anyone can shout them, because they don't have to follow through with any specific criticism.

David
This article explains (and debunks) some of the reasons they say Trump is racist.

https://www.scottadamssays.com/2018...cret-racist-dog-whistle-and-republicans-dont/

More here
https://www.scottadamssays.com/2019/04/30/the-fine-people-hoax-funnel/
 
BTW, Bernie Sanders is a socialist. He used to be pen pals with government officials in the Soviet Union, Cuba and some other god forsaken commie country that I can't recall at the moment. He has written about how he prefers those systems.

I love how leftists often try to appear reasonable, "Well I'm just for reasonable government interventions and some key goods and services to be freely provided it. I still appreciate capitalism", when the guy they wanted elected is a friend of the Soviet Union and Cuba. At least please be honest about your goals.

Same with gun "control"...How many times have I heard lefties proclaim,"no one wants to take your guns!" - well the Leftist candidates are all talking about taking our guns. Right out in the open in campaign speeches. Again, be honest and stop trying to gaslight people.

Ditto climate change agendas where it's all fear - nay terror! - all the time about a warming earth, but then one of the major player slips and admits that it was always about radically changing the economy (read socialism) and warming was an issue du jour to scare people into going along with the real agenda.

Leftists are not to be trusted. They live in cocoons and won't accept what the world is really like, they have addled thinking and are easily swayed by emotional images and other shiny things, they are internally inconsistent even within the same sentence (we seen it on this very thread), they like to measure virtue like it's a badge to be proudly worn on one's chest, demonstrating that they are simultaneously shallow and desire to be superior, and they have secret agendas to cause the collapse of a system that has increased the quality of life for more people than any other in history. And they lie about it.

I'm sticking with Trump.
 
There are those who demonstrate spiritual principles, but rarely are cognizant of it, nor do they highlight it as such.
There are those who struggle earnestly in suffering to make this journey manifest in their own lives.
From each of these, we may learn.


But the character from whom one cannot learn is the spiritually enlightened and the one who points out the transgression.
Those who fail to understand that spirituality is not an instructed qualification, virtue identity, office nor acquisition.
If spirituality were so easy and could be a state of adornment as such, there would be no need to be here at all.
You are here precisely because you cannot make a claim to spirituality.


This is why the higher spirits refuse to instruct us as to what to do.
And lower spirits are full of advice, accusation and admonition.
 
Last edited:



Oh well oh well I feel so good today
We just touched ground on an international runway
Jet-propelled back home from overseas to the USA

New York, Los Angeles
Oh how I yearn for you
Detroit, Chicago, Chattanooga, Baton Rouge
God I long to be at my home back in old St Lou

Did I miss the skyscrapers
Did I miss the long freeway
From the coast of California
To the shores of the Delaware Bay
You can bet your life I did
Till I got back to the USA

Looking hard for a drive-in
Searching for a corner cafe
Where hamburgers sizzle on an open grill night and day
Yeah, and the jukebox jumping with records back in the USA

I'm so glad I'm living in the USA
Yes I'm so glad I'm living in the USA
Anything you want we got it right here in the USA

Ah we're so glad we're living in the USA
Yes we're so glad we're living in the USA
Anything you want we got it right here in the USA

Ah we're so glad
We're so glad
Ah we're so glad
We're so glad

 
Look. It is the Left who are inciting racial tensions. What has Trump done in that direction? What? Sought border security and that somehow gets redefined as racism. By redefining something that every country on the planet does as "racist" the Left is stirring up racial tensions. Just as Obama did with his phony rhetoric about racist police killing unarmed blacks (12 per year according to FBI statistics - and most of those were attacking a police officer and trying to grab the officers' guns).

Every day and night the leftist media rants on and on about racism in America when most of us look around and don't see it (that includes Blacks, Hispanics, Asians - who are all doing much better under the Trump economy).

Making something up and then complaining about it isn't the fault of the target of your hallucination.

BTW, I find your claim to be more spiritually advanced than I am kind of sick. Who goes around measuring virtue and proclaiming oneself to be more virtuous?

You say I'm stressed, etc and then you go off on how stressed you are because of Trump and America. This would be hilarious stuff if it wasn't so twisted and so typical of a large borg that is politically active.
Ok, it was a long shot, but it doesn't take much to scratch the racist itch. Many of us, including Trump supporters, have a knee-jerk tendency to look around for 'someone to blame'. It's currently 'brown-skinned people' because on top of american propaganda blaming the Muslims, he clumsily fed the masses with a simple 'wall' solution, leading to all the assumptions you can guess, that say Mexicans are 'to blame'. It leads to killings like the El Paso, on the Mexican border Walmart shooting.
Texas Walmart shooting: El Paso attack 'domestic ... - BBChttps://www.bbc.com › news › world-us-canada-49226573
Trump called it a "response to the hispanic invasion of Texas" and that "hate has no place in our country" so why do so many Americans seem to hate Mexican/Muslim/Indigenous/Lefties/Commies etc, etc? Racial segregation has always been used by dictatorial govts because they can tap the fear of 'the different or other' latent in our human nature. It is spiritual progress to get beyond that.

I doubt the statistics that "most" dead young black men "were attacking a police officer and trying to grab the officers' guns" and I don't trust the Police Force or FBI to be truthful. I have heard that one officer said "I haven't got time for this" before shooting an unarmed man to death. That is not to say there are no good cops. I recommend reading Malcom Caldwell's book 'Blink' on the issue of the danger of split-second trigger responses in gun-carriers.

I agree what a sad fake Obama turned out to be. I don't think there's been a 'good' president since JFKennedy, the music certainly died that day. So 'they' are on a roll, and Trump, amusingly, seems to have them stumped in some places. But whether his political method is a deeply-disguised, cunning, well-thought out strategy or buffoonish blind surprise at finding himself there is yet to become clear to me. I think he's 'winging it' a lot.

Speaking as 'global citizen, currently residing' having lived in a few different countries and places, I have no nationalistic attachments to any country and live like a guest on this planet. Most people who manifest an aversion to people on the grounds of racial difference actually know very little about or have even met any of the target of their prejudice. Why don't you try changing your mind on who should live where? Hanging on to exclusive entitlement to America is out of date, and what is the problem with Mexican/American bi-cultural, or multi-cultural interaction? It is probably the same problem New Zealand's political right-wing have towards indigenous and immigrant peoples. It is focusing on the differences, the creation of a border that gives the perception that there is anything to defend. It is selfish and showing an inability to face the future. We are all people on this planet with an equal right to exist and share in the wealth of it.

when the guy they wanted elected is a friend of the Soviet Union and Cuba.
Leftists are not to be trusted.
You throw these comments out as if you think we are all to think like you and agree that's 'a bad thing'. I am as interested in Putin as in Trump. I don't share your 'anti-commie' attitude. This does not make me 'wrong' or 'bad', it just makes me different. Likewise would you please stop assuming that people are holding extreme positions that are either 'for or against' you. It is catastrophising from a position of ignorance and you use it to justify your tediously repetitive accusations.

I am not 'competing spiritually' with you. I only want to say that I too have lived many years in a state of anger and am still working on practising forgiveness. I used to require remorse, but I have got as far as feeling pity for anyone I see still lost in it; it helps me to understand and forgive. Also I have finally learnt to step back from my stance/perception/opinion and see it for what it is - only me and my little limited view. When we pass on it will get even smaller in importance.
 
As for shouting "Racist" at anyone, that is just absurdly vague. If they think Trump did something racist why can't they be specific? I would imagine that everyone is getting sick of hearing vague attacks - racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic,......... Anyone can shout them, because they don't have to follow through with any specific criticism.
True David, cutting the name-calling is a good idea, hey Eric?
 
There are those who demonstrate spiritual principles, but rarely are cognizant of it, nor do they highlight it as such.
There are those who struggle earnestly in suffering to make this journey manifest in their own lives.
From each of these, we may learn.


But the character from whom one cannot learn is the spiritually enlightened and the one who points out the transgression.
Those who fail to understand that spirituality is not an instructed qualification, virtue identity, office nor acquisition.
If spirituality were so easy and could be a state of adornment as such, there would be no need to be here at all.
You are here precisely because you cannot make a claim to spirituality.


This is why the higher spirits refuse to instruct us as to what to do.
And lower spirits are full of advice, accusation and admonition.
This is a lovely piece TES
But I disagree that spiritual practice is not necessary, as this seems to imply, or that we cannot help each other with sympathy and sometimes admonition, towards us all becoming a better lower spirit. How we treat each other is an expression of our inner state and progress and I only claim to have a very slight edge, it's taken me all of my 58 years too.
 


Oh well oh well I feel so good today​
We just touched ground on an international runway​
Jet-propelled back home from overseas to the USA​
New York, Los Angeles​
Oh how I yearn for you​
Detroit, Chicago, Chattanooga, Baton Rouge​
God I long to be at my home back in old St Lou​
Did I miss the skyscrapers​
Did I miss the long freeway​
From the coast of California​
To the shores of the Delaware Bay​
You can bet your life I did​
Till I got back to the USA​
Looking hard for a drive-in​
Searching for a corner cafe​
Where hamburgers sizzle on an open grill night and day​
Yeah, and the jukebox jumping with records back in the USA​
I'm so glad I'm living in the USA​
Yes I'm so glad I'm living in the USA​
Anything you want we got it right here in the USA​
Ah we're so glad we're living in the USA​
Yes we're so glad we're living in the USA​
Anything you want we got it right here in the USA​
Ah we're so glad​
We're so glad​
Ah we're so glad​
We're so glad​
You're being ironic, right?
This forum is looking a lot like Americans vs the rest of the World, no surprises there.
 
Last edited:
This is a lovely piece TES
But I disagree that spiritual practice is not necessary, as this seems to imply, or that we cannot help each other with sympathy and sometimes admonition, towards us all becoming a better lower spirit. How we treat each other is an expression of our inner state and progress and I only claim to have a very slight edge, it's taken me all of my 58 years too.
Spiritual practice is necessary. Yes, I agree with you there.
I did not intend for the piece to imply elsewise. :)

But spirit development is a praxis which we apply to self, and not one well exercised by being instructed or enforced upon others.
We learn from witnessing its application, and from those (including one's self) struggling to learn it. We learn from suffering and time.

But not from being told how. Such activity only inflates the ego of the 'teacher'. Higher spirits are developed enough to know this ego trap and spiritual logical fallacy. Hence, their reluctance to give us advice. See Michael Patterson's posts about his frustration over getting guidance from his higher spirits.

I hold this idea that we can admonish-to-spirituality as incorrect. In this mistake we are conflating morality-virtue-ethics, which can be taught, with wisdom-integrity-spirituality, which cannot.

In the day that we define that which is goodness, darkness will skin it and wear it as a costume.
We are not here to learn to be good. We are here to learn the hard lesson praxis of darkness - and to spot its trackways within ourselves.
 
Last edited:
Top