Trump Consciousness

#41
Social Marxists and corporate globalists, thought that their great revolution, which had begun under Obama, would continue under Hillary. They freaked out that so many Americans reversed their course and that Trump is their leader.

The war all the time club thought they'd get Hillary, who would continue imperial wars and they got Trump, who opposes them.

All kinds of pork munching swamp dwellers who've been riding the gravy train for years fear Trump cutting it all off.

Various sexual pervert nut jobs in Hollyweird that welcome the second coming of Sodom and Ghemora fearing that conservatives are ascendant and their orgy will come to an end.

Various foreign interests seeking to weaken the US and their graft taking tools fearing the end of their plans and graft (think the Mexican dope and human trafficking cartels, China).

Idiots who believe fake news.

There's a few reasons
C’mon. Are you really denying that, when it comes to ridicule, he creates a target rich environment? I mean... Just look at him.
 
#44
The scene from liberal HQ

I haven't been following every post to this thread so if it seem like I am picking on you unfairly I apologise, but I would like this thread to avoid sarcasm and satire because that can provoke animosity and uncontrolled emotions. That is part of what I meant by the update to the opening post. I was not perfectly clear so it is partly my fault. I will clarify the OP now...
 
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#45
Updated the OP
.
9/3/19 - Update. If you post to this thread please maintain proper decorum and always be polite (moderator please take note).

If you can't be nice, post somewhere else.

If you have problems controlling your emotions, it is probably better if you just stay out of this thread.

Clarification: Please refrain from sarcasm and satire because that can provoke animosity. I would like this thread to be a place to discuss Trump and related issues in an objective manner and in as friendly as way as possible.
 
#47
If you have only read the Mueller report you do not not have all the facts.

A prosecutor's job is to consider incriminating evidence (not exculpatory evidence) to determine only if there is sufficient evidence to indict, (not guilt or innocence).

https://thehill.com/opinion/judicia...r-for-exceeding-his-role#.XO76Dveqbfx.twitter
...
BY ALAN DERSHOWITZ
...
Until today, I have defended Mueller against the accusations that he is a partisan. I did not believe that he personally favored either the Democrats or the Republicans, or had a point of view on whether President Trump should be impeached. But I have now changed my mind. By putting his thumb, indeed his elbow, on the scale of justice in favor of impeachment based on obstruction of justice, Mueller has revealed his partisan bias. He also has distorted the critical role of a prosecutor in our justice system.

Virtually everybody agrees that, in the normal case, a prosecutor should never go beyond publicly disclosing that there is insufficient evidence to indict. No responsible prosecutor should ever suggest that the subject of his investigation might indeed be guilty even if there was insufficient evidence or other reasons not to indict. Supporters of Mueller will argue that this is not an ordinary case, that he is not an ordinary prosecutor, and that President Trump is not an ordinary subject of an investigation. They are wrong. The rules should not be any different.
 
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#48
#49
#51
Ignoring the adlibs, poisoning the well, and other rhetoric, you provide your opinion. - "just about wiped out" would you like to provide any evidence?
Surely one piece of evidence is that we nolonger hear about cities under threat from ISIS, with people fleeing. We no longer hear of beheadings of 'spies', homosexuals, foreigners, etc.

David
 
#52
Well unless that person was me, I guess I'll let the matter drop!
No, I haven't notice anything especially hypocritical in the positions you take. Your schtick is more naive (an almost hero worship of a man, the current US president, whose character is, from an objective perspective, shall we say, euphemistically, "somewhat lacking"), and fallacious ("Yes, wrongs have been committed by our people and others, but since we can't correct them all, we shouldn't bother to correct any of them", by which, when I put it like that, the fallacy is obvious, but which you frame in such terms as to mask the fallacy).

[Edit: I haven't responded to your original response to my original post (on hypocrisy) because it seems you misunderstood my intent (and because, if not, then it was just a really poor response), but if you think it warrants a response anyway, then please just say.]
 
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#53
Reposting because ... why not?
Because there's a word for that... it starts with an "S" and ends with a "G".

I would like this thread to avoid sarcasm and satire because that can provoke animosity and uncontrolled emotions.
Why start a thread about a clown and then declare that there shall be no clowning around?

In any case, if you mean this to be a thread for clear-headed, serious, and objective discussion, then I think you should address Michael's cogent critiques before posting further propaganda advocacy.
 
#55
You're just repeating a bunch of BS.

I have also read the Mueller report.

Unless you're a lawyer - and a lawyer that understands the US Constitution thoroughly (as in expert in that area of law) - you really don't have the creds to comment on topics like obstruction of justice. But, anyhow, what obstruction of justice? How can obstruct when there is no crime? How did Trump obstruct justice? No obstructive actions were taken. Also, Mueller doesn't come to a conclusion about that - you know better than Mueller?. It is the President's right to fire anyone he wishes at any time. of course Bill Clinton's attempted secret meeting with the AG on the tarmac when his wife was under investigation wasn't obstruction of justice. Everyone gets latitude except Trump. Mere nit picking bias on your part (and on the part of cry baby sky screaming libtards).

Rolled back environmental controls? That's a cause for impeachment? LOL. Environmentalism is used as an excuse to weaken America.

The economic recovery is due to Obama? LOL LOL LOL LOL. Obama is the one who said we'd just have to get used to the anemic growth we experienced under his crappy admin. Trump regulation cuts and tax cuts are exactly why the US economy is thriving + his pro-America stance (markets are psychological). I perform economic analysis and I work with "credible" economists. We know exactly what is driving historically high GDP and historically low unemployment (including for minorities) - and it's Trump's policies. Stick to paper shuffling or whatever it is you're paid to do by the government. You're out of your league on this one (as well as others). You're relying on fake anti-Trump media opinions (who are also out of their league).

"As a public servant I...blah blah blah...." Whatever. As public servants the FBI is sworn to uphold the Constitution, as are the other agencies involved in the BS Russia "collusion" scam - and they clearly did not.

Trump may have avoided service in VN, but he's making up for it now as CinC. Some people take longer to figure out the concepts of duty and service. Let's recall that Bill Clinto was also a draft dodger as are many leading anti-Trump figures. I am unimpressed by that line of argument. It's more emotional appeal, which has no place in serious analysis.

There is no evidence of Trump/Russia financial links - only vague allegations, but so what if there were? Obama promised the Russian's that once he was sworn in there'd be more he could do for them (that was caught on a camera that was left on - available everywhere online for review). Hillary oversaw selling Russia uranium rights. Bill Clinton took large sums of money from Russians. George Bush Jr said Putin has a good soul and worked deals with him. And that's all fine with me because - attention hysterical idiots! - Russia is a major player on the world scene and there is no reason to not do business with them. Guess what, most days of the year there are Americans and other nationalities up in the Russian space station with - OMG! - Russians! What a f'ing doltish concept that anyone who talks to or works with Russians is somehow compromised. Only when it comes to Trump of course because this has nothing to do with anything other than hating Trump and trying to smear him.

Trump did not set the "fake news" meme. It was Obama that coined that phrase.

It was the Russians and the Syrian Army that wiped out ISIS - at least Trump didn't interfere with that process like Obama/Clinton did. yes. the Jihadist are pretty much all dead. You should not attempt to speak to matters of which you have no direct knowledge and in which your bratty anti-American/pro-islam attitude clouds your judgment. Also, on that note, it was the Obama/Clinton admin that was assisting the jihadis and then handed Libya to them. What wars has Trump started? Answer = none. He has dodged the pressure from the usual suspects to start wars.

I could on, but there's no point. You have been 100% brainwashed by fake news and you have no idea what you're talking about. You are materially wrong on most points and, on others, you are just offering your uniformed opinion as a bureaucrat big government type.
Actually, Eric, the term ‘fake news’ goes back to the 1800s. You seem to think I am pro Dem. I am not. And I am of the opinion that you are equally ‘brainwashed’ by the sources you rely on. Where does that get us? I notice you constantly contrast Trump with Obama - to what end? Whether Trump is fit for office has nothing to
The problem is that information about Trump is heavily filtered on both sides. Unfortunately you persist in insults, or at least wheat you seem to think are insults, rather than rationally based assertions. For example, I am not ‘bratty’, anti-American or pro-Islam.

You won’t find what you are not looking for - so of course you won’t find evidence of Trump’s ties with Russia. I get that. You are looking for a political saviour, and the news you get serves your purpose.

But I am like millions of people around the world, aghast at what we see, and alarmed. We stand outside the bubble of domestic US politics. We don’t get into being fond of US presidents, just grateful when they are not too dangerous.

You can hurl all the insults you like as a substitute for civil debate for no good purpose. People who watch dangerous animals don’t have to be members of their pack to have a valid idea on their behaviour.

I take your POV as an intimate insider, and while I see that it pleases you to believe as you do, I disagree, because I am not an insider and I do not believe my interests are served by having a man not fit to hold office as POTUS.

I absolutely get it that Trump serves the interests of some people, and that they will defend him staunchly. I think Trump has raised legitimate issues to be addressed in your nation’s interests. But just because you see what the problem is does not mean you are competent to deliver the solution - a conceit sadly common in politicians.

I am pretty much where the Republicans were when they did not believe Trump would win the nomination - many thought him unfit for office - until they were excited by self-interest to sing a different song.

Mercifully I am too far away to be tempted.

My final observation is that unless you actually do the hard yards and look at the allegations, the history, the character from outside the cult-like bubble that has engulfed so many Trump fans your credibility is wanting. Hurling insults and denials seems to be the favoured weapons of pro-Trumpians. Don’t yell ‘Where’s the evidence of Russian connection?” Go look for it, the same way I did. I am not doing your work for you. And if you can’t or won’t, say you are not interested - because you do not believe there is a case to be made. Please not respond with insults and ridicule. They are not substitutes for a civil debate. Please do not tell me I have no valid opinion, just because I am not American. I do wish I didn’t have to be concerned about what a US president does, but I do.
 
#56
So this is what's new huh? I'm reading these posts and I can't help wondering how many people here are not US citizens. That's relevant to me because it goes to the underlying cultural and political experience. Case in point, Britain suffered for decades under fairly unsuccessful Socialist policies and economy. I dunno, that would make me more wary about government intervention.
America never had that, unless you want to call Roosevelt's New Deal Socialist. My point is, to me, its like White people telling Black people how they should think about society. How many people here believe Corporations are people? What do you know about Citizens United? In the USA here Capitalism is worshipped even though it has totally corrupted our politics.

Here in the US, I haven't met one Trump supporter who doesn't think Trump is trying to protect status quo, i.e. White Western Culture. OK, fair enough, nothing wrong with that, but isn't that a bias? What is it biased against? How many people here know the history of government supported racism in America? How many know about US asylum and immigration laws and why they are being changed. Why are we rejecting hospitalized foreign children coming to the US for treatment? Why is the US changing its stance against children born to US soldiers in other countries.
How about why is the EPA lowering pollution and environmental safety rules? Opening up protected areas to mining and logging. Since Trump is largely supported by the Christian Right. Their legal arm the ACLJ are now filing lawsuits against meditation courses being taught in public schools here. The organization is being run by Trump legal advisor Jay Sekulow, any comments? By the way, any opinions on the proliferation of corrupt corporations for profit charter schools in the US.
How about not forgiving student loans to people duped by fake Universities i.e Trump University.

It irked me David Bailey administrator scolds Steve about some casual political remark on the Sean Webb page, which I found apropos because it goes to the heart of posing to have critical thinking skills. Then David proceeds to go into a little pro Trump tirade that smacks of naked hypocrisy.
This forum is suppose to be, to me, a form of investigative method of discovery, self discovery. That's not what's happening here. What we have is a bunch of biased opinions using politically biased sources and I believe many are not even US citizens.
 
#57
This forum is suppose to be, to me, a form of investigative method of discovery, self discovery. That's not what's happening here. What we have is a bunch of biased opinions using politically biased sources and I believe many are not even US citizens.
We do do politics here as well as subjects related to consciousness. We try to keep them separate, but sometimes they get mixed together.

I think everyone's views about politics are biassed in one way or another. I like and respect a President who tries to keep us out of wars. I'm am not a US citizen, but the UK inevitably got pulled into the various wars that previous presidents started, and if anything were to go nuclear, everyone would be involved. These wars almost always ended badly, and anyway, unnecessary wars are utterly immoral.

David
 
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#58
In the USA here Capitalism is worshipped even though it has totally corrupted our politics.
Every economic system corrupts the political leaders. You are singling out capitalism unfairly and blaming it for the flaws in human nature.

The US is one of the least corrupt countries in the world.

https://www.businessinsider.com/the...-on-the-index-darker-red-means-more-corrupt-1
Transparency International published its latest Corruption Perceptions Index, a global ranking of fairness around the world.
...
Here's a map of the countries on the index — darker red means more corrupt.


Capitalism has done more to alleviate poverty than any other single factor in human history.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/09/capitalisms-triumph-michael-tanner/
" In the last 20 years, for instance, capitalism has lifted more than a billion people worldwide out of poverty "

Here in the US, I haven't met one Trump supporter who doesn't think Trump is trying to protect status quo, i.e. White Western Culture.
How many Trump supporters is that?

Is "White Western Culture" what they said, or are you putting your words in their mouths?

I don't know why anyone would think the status quo in the US is White Western Culture,

US culture includes includes Rock music (African American) jazz music (African) Gunpowder (China) , Algebra (Arab) etc etc,
The US is 16 % Hispanic, 12% Black, 4% Asian. Implying the US is white is wrong. In only 25 years whites will not even be the majority ethnicity in the US.

And Trump is not trying to protect the status quo. The status quo is the problem Trump is trying to fix:

Socialism - too much government infringing on personal freedom inhibiting economic growth (see below on how this hurts the poor)

Globalism - international corporations profiting at the expense of ordinary people.

Unfair trade agreements with other countries that have led to loss of jobs in the US.

Political correctness - used by liberals to restrict free speech to silence political opposition.

And unrestricted immigration (no country in the world allows that). US politicians want it for two reasons to provide cheap labor for corporations and to increase the number of Democrat voters. Unrestricted immigration hurts poor citizens them most - it make it harder to find jobs and reduces wages and increases competition for low income housing and government resources allocated to the poor. Porous borders also help organized drug gangs and human traffickers to operate ruining countless lives of people the government should be protecting instead of profiting off of their destruction.

OK, fair enough, nothing wrong with that, but isn't that a bias? What is it biased against? How many people here know the history of government supported racism in America? How many know about US asylum and immigration laws and why they are being changed. Why are we rejecting hospitalized foreign children coming to the US for treatment? Why is the US changing its stance against children born to US soldiers in other countries.
How about why is the EPA lowering pollution and environmental safety rules? Opening up protected areas to mining and logging.
Because there is a cost/benefit analysis for everything and the cost is jobs for workers who have children to clothe, house, feed, send to college. Economic growth helps poor people most - it provides more jobs, better wages and benefits when there is a labor shortage.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/04/05/usa-meets-kyoto-protocol-without-ever-embracing-it/
USA meets Kyoto protocol goal – without ever embracing it​
...​
In 2012, a surprising twist and without ever ratifying it, the United States became the first major industrialized nation in the world to meet the United Nation’s original Kyoto Protocol 2012 target for CO2 reductions.​

Since Trump is largely supported by the Christian Right. Their legal arm the ACLJ are now filing lawsuits against meditation courses being taught in public schools here. The organization is being run by Trump legal advisor Jay Sekulow, any comments?
Public schools are not the place to teach religious practices to children and there are a lot of risks associated with meditation. That is something parents should oversee - not government run schools. The absolutely last thing I would want for my kids is to have them taught meditation in public school.

By the way, any opinions on the proliferation of corrupt corporations for profit charter schools in the US.
Can you please say what the evidence is that charter schools are corrupt?

Why do so many parents prefer charter schools to public schools? Because in some areas the public schools are horrible and the only chance children have for a decent education is from charter schools.

How about not forgiving student loans to people duped by fake Universities i.e Trump University.

It irked me David Bailey administrator scolds Steve about some casual political remark on the Sean Webb page, which I found apropos because it goes to the heart of posing to have critical thinking skills. Then David proceeds to go into a little pro Trump tirade that smacks of naked hypocrisy.
This forum is suppose to be, to me, a form of investigative method of discovery, self discovery. That's not what's happening here. What we have is a bunch of biased opinions using politically biased sources and I believe many are not even US citizens.
 
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