Trump Consciousness

As I already said in the Global Warming thread, nowadays it's sometimes hard to separate news from satire.

So, I'll ask you: is this study serious? Or not?

If it is serious, I have fear for America's future.
 
Well, if it wasn't legal, how more illegal was it for Obama to have authorised the assassination of American citizens on foreign soil? Or wasn't it, because Obama could do no wrong? Knock yourself out with legal arguments from that paragon of the left, the Guardian, or with the disaparate opinions on killing someone thought to be a high-ranking official here. Me, I'm sticking with my own opinion, parroted from no one, that what Trump did wasn't illegal, and certainly within the province of executive action.
Typical whataboutism. Absolutely irrelevant twaddle. Stick with your opinion, fine, but acknowledge it is neither definitive nor expert.
 
Typical whataboutism. Absolutely irrelevant twaddle. Stick with your opinion, fine, but acknowledge it is neither definitive or expert.
"Whataboutism"-- that's kinda like "conspiracy theory" -- a meme often utilised by those who only want to score points. The fact is, it is debated whether or not Trump's action was legal or not, as the second of my two links indicated. Which opinion you accept is de facto a matter of opinion. Those on the TDS Left might well take one view, and others, another. Tell you what, why not attempt to impeach Trump yet again on the off-chance that it was illegal? Good luck with that. It'd open up an even larger can of worms.
 
"Whataboutism"-- that's kinda like "conspiracy theory" -- a meme often utilised by those who only want to score points. The fact is, it is debated whether or not Trump's action was legal or not, as the second of my two links indicated. Which opinion you accept is de facto a matter of opinion. Those on the TDS Left might well take one view, and others, another. Tell you what, why not attempt to impeach Trump yet again on the off-chance that it was illegal? Good luck with that. It'd open up an even larger can of worms.
From wiki:

Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.


But at least you’ve now admitted that there is some debate on the legality, or otherwise, of Trump’s actions.
 
I give you a modicum of credit for moderating whatever degree of TDS you might possess; I can at least have a conversation with you.
Thanks?

Has it ever occurred to people that Trump came into office with little political experience, and that he's been learning on the job? And if the deranged (childish) on the left hadn't from the very first moment been so insanely against anything and everything he said and did just because it was him, he might have started to become less brash and more presidential sooner? Say whatever you like about Trump, I don't think he can be accused of lacking guts and perseverance.
Trump's been a public figure for most of his adult life, something he's sought and curated considering his primary business being real estate back in the day. I can't think of any other real estate investor/developer who seemed so interested in being in the public light. To call him "inexperienced" when it comes to dealing what others say about him seems unfounded.

But more directly to the point: I don't see a lack of political experience as an excuse for his all too often boorish behavior. I find these attempts to justify it or explain it away quite pathetic. This is just not how good, strong, moral people should behave. Period. Trump supporters should embrace the fact that they can a) support him as president while concurrently b) condemning his worst behavior.

Like it or lump it, for better or worse, he's the president, a title he won fair and square within the limitations of the US electoral system. The mature thing for the Dems to have done would have been to accept that and at least given him a chance. I'm not interested whether or not the Republicans have behaved similarly in the past (they did rather hound Clinton, for instance): what matters is Trump and what's happening now. If the Republicans behaved childishly in the past, that's no excuse for the Dems behaving childishly now.
Agreed. And glad to see you recognize this as a failing of politicians of all stripes. Its pretty sickening to me and one reason I have been so sour on politicians generally for ages. Its kinda gross how they all act to be honest.

I'd like for all politicians, of whatever stripe, to behave like adults. Currently, in my view it is the Dems who are the most irresponsible and childish. Maybe in time that will change, but we're here and now and I'm calling things as I see them.
Again, agreed... generally. I find the Republicans unwillingness to acknowledge Trump's obvious flaws as I've discussed previously to be similarly loathsome. Its dishonest as they'd turn on him in a heartbeat if Trump wasn't furthering their agendas, or perhaps more aptly their fear of retribution from him should they utter a critical word.

His ends may very well justify his means. I'm not so pollyannish as to not see that.
 
Well, if you do have a touch of TDS, it's not strong enough for me to think of you as a fullblown case and a completely lost cause; you seem to be too sensible to me for that.

In the interests of balance, I'd like to add that some people have TAS, an abbreviation for Trump Adoration Syndrome, in which the man is thought to be a 4D chess-playing genius with a preternatural penchant for defeating enemies by dint of deep and thoroughly confounding strategy. One reason I like Scott Adams' Coffee With podcast is that he is prepared to criticise Trump when he thinks he's made a mistake, which, let's face it, he quite often does.

It's not that Trump is preternaturally smart, so much as that (currently) his enemies are preternaturally stupid. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king... ;)
 
Should the American President be able to kill anyone any where any time?
No just terrorists cause those are bad guys. Presidents don't kill good guys.

So should the American President be able to kill any terrorist any where any time?

Obviously killing terrorists at weddings should not be done as women and children could be killed? But then if they were at the wedding with terrorists they must be terrorists too. So that's okay.

I know that Trump is wise and peaceful, but what if in the future the someone not as nice gets elected. You know someone like Obama. They might end up killing Americans.

What's that you say - these things have already happened? What a world we live in.


{edited for clarity}
 
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Should the American President be able to kill any terrorist any where any time?

Obviously killing terrorists at weddings should not be done as women and children could be killed? But then if they were at the wedding with terrorists they must terrorists too. So that's okay.

I know that Trump is wise and peaceful, but what if in the future the someone not as nice gets elected. You know someone like Obama. They might end up killing Americans.

What's that you say - these things have already happened? What a world we live in.
I think the real problem is that no country plays by international law. Thus hostages get taken, terrorist actions are state sponsored - including many indirect US actions in Syria, wars have been started based on bogus evidence, etc etc.

That means, it is useless even to discuss those rules because nobody actually obeys them.

Thus I think the best we can do, is ask whether each action seems reasonable under the circumstances or not. It seems to me that what President Trump did was very reasonable, because is seems accepted that Solomeini was organising further terrorist actions.

I distinguish between Trump's actions and those of previous US presidents, because I think many of those actions were flagrantly wrong - notably the arming of extremists in Syria to try to topple the Assad regime.

David
 
It's not that Trump is preternaturally smart, so much as that (currently) his enemies are preternaturally stupid. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king... ;)
Actually there is some truth to that remark. I think that with President Trump, you see a man who is genuinely trying to fulfil his election promises, and not being swayed into absurd wars, or arming terrorists etc. If he were to face a non-compromised candidate in the autumn election, he might not be the best candidate - but show me that candidate. The horrible lunacy that has infected the Left, is egged on by the US media, and it is all starting to hang out for all to see.

One reason I support Trump, is that his success may finally force the Left to purge itself of falseness (and of Neocon influence), and get back to how they used to be.

I mean Fox News often points out that whatever President Trump does, the crazy Left oppose it. It has sunk to that level.

If he actually succeeds in making Iran (and/or NK) reform without a war, I predict there will still be Left leaning media explaining why it was wrong - or maybe that he was just lucky.

David
 

Bart V

straw materialist
Member
Copied this post from another thread because a reaction to it is more fitting here.
...
I get the feeling that Trump says the odd untruthful thing, more or less as an accident, but he doesn't try to run a wholly untruthful narrative about himself, like Elizabeth Warren did - claiming she was part Native American.
...
Statements like this really make me believe in the existence of alternate realities, you must be in a completely different one than me David.

In the one i live, Trump does not "say the odd untruthful thing, more or less as an accident", he deliberately lies about almost everything.
It is probably faster to list the truths he states (5% of statements according to Politifact), than the lies. He is a compulsive liar who would rather tell a bold faced lie than admit he does not know something.

"but he doesn't try to run a wholly untruthful narrative about himself " Again, David, are we on the same planet?
He does nothing else than building up an untruthful narrative about himself.
This even goes back generations, the Trump's lied about their origins, claiming they came from Sweden, later Trump lied about his father, said he was born in Germany.

The whole narrative of being a self made man who started with a "smal" loan of one million dollars,(Not even talking about the disconnect in naming a million dollars 'a small loan') is a complete lie. Turns out it was not a loan, he never payed anything back. Moreover, it was more like 600 million he got from his father.

The image of master deal maker is a lie, evidenced by the many bankruptcies.
Trump boasts to be a billionaire, probably a lie, some say he never earned more than he got from his father, there is a reason he does not want to give his tax returns (the perpetual audit: another lie)

He faked time magazine covers about himself, called a reporter under an alias to boost his fortune, he even cheats in golf, and that is just what immediately comes to mind.

This blatend disregard for anything that is the truth should disqualify Trump for any office, and yet you guys defend him for president.
This does not compute for me.
 
Copied this post from another thread because a reaction to it is more fitting here.

Statements like this really make me believe in the existence of alternate realities, you must be in a completely different one than me David.

In the one i live, Trump does not "say the odd untruthful thing, more or less as an accident", he deliberately lies about almost everything.
It is probably faster to list the truths he states (5% of statements according to Politifact), than the lies. He is a compulsive liar who would rather tell a bold faced lie than admit he does not know something.

"but he doesn't try to run a wholly untruthful narrative about himself " Again, David, are we on the same planet?
He does nothing else than building up an untruthful narrative about himself.
This even goes back generations, the Trump's lied about their origins, claiming they came from Sweden, later Trump lied about his father, said he was born in Germany.

The whole narrative of being a self made man who started with a "smal" loan of one million dollars,(Not even talking about the disconnect in naming a million dollars 'a small loan') is a complete lie. Turns out it was not a loan, he never payed anything back. Moreover, it was more like 600 million he got from his father.

The image of master deal maker is a lie, evidenced by the many bankruptcies.
Trump boasts to be a billionaire, probably a lie, some say he never earned more than he got from his father, there is a reason he does not want to give his tax returns (the perpetual audit: another lie)

He faked time magazine covers about himself, called a reporter under an alias to boost his fortune, he even cheats in golf, and that is just what immediately comes to mind.

This blatend disregard for anything that is the truth should disqualify Trump for any office, and yet you guys defend him for president.
This does not compute for me.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...e-or-misleading-claims-his-first-three-years/
 
https://donsurber.blogspot.com/2020/01/trumps-remarkable-remarks-at-davos.html


President Donald John Trump's address at Davos this morning was a lesson on governance by a man who entered politics less than 5 years ago.​
Our president said, "America’s newfound prosperity is undeniable, unprecedented and unmatched anywhere in the world. America achieved this stunning turnaround not by making minor changes to a handful of policies, but by adopting a whole new approach centered entirely on the well-being of the American worker."​
That is incredible. A billionaire spoke to fellow billionaires, fellow world leaders, and academics not about the swell digs they were staying at or the lush cuisine they enjoyed.​
President Trump talked about actually serving the people who entrusted them with power.​
....
He said, "Every decision we make on taxes, trade, regulation, energy, immigration, education and more is focused on improving the lives of everyday Americans. Only when governments put their own citizens first will people be fully invested in their national futures."

The president went through all the economic numbers. 3.5% unemployment. Consumer confidence up. Records shattered in the stock market. But his remarks on governing -- words that the press will largely ignore -- underscored the point that he indeed is the people's president.

He said, "Today I urge other nations to follow our example and liberate your citizens from the crushing weight of bureaucracy."

Putting the people first is straight out of Sun Tzu, who said, "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys; look upon them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death."

There. I just explained why Donald Trump's supporters do not waver.

I hope Boris Johnson took notes. Emmanuel Macron, alas, is a lost cause. So much promise, so little accomplished.

6:52: For the first time in decades we're no longer simply concentrating wealth in the hands of a few, we're concentrating and creating the most inclusive economy ever to exist. We are lifting up Americans of every race color religion and creed.
 
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