Trump Consciousness

Bart V

straw materialist
Member
Instead of relying on liberal BS, why don't you go to the US Customs and Border Patrol site or other sources based on them? Like Steve who accuses Trump of being a liar and then admits he couldn't bothered to look up the fact that Trump's grandfather was from Germany. He just whines "How could I know that". It's all right there if you'd stop your hating and propaganda for a few minutes. You're the same.
Actually CBP are the ones who say that the of the 93 miles of new wall built, at least 90 is replacement of existing barriers.

Ironically it was Trump's grandfather who lied about his German heritage:

Fred Trump’s father, Friedrich Trump, was born in Germany, in the sleepy village of Kallstadt. He left for America at 16 and worked as a barber in Manhattan before heading west.

He lived in Washington state for a while and in the Yukon, in Canada, he sold horse meat and other “services” to goldminers.

Friedrich returned to Germany but was kicked out for skipping military service. His son barely left New York. Until the 1980s, though, he pretended he was of Swedish ancestry, which he felt would be more palatable to many of his Jewish tenants.
So, lying and draft dodging seem to run in the family.
 
In fairness, lying, exaggerating, fantasising, confabulation and faulty memory are embedded in the human condition.
Surely neglecting to mention the critical point that there are varying degrees of such traits in individuals.
Who would you rather choose as your leader, Donald Trump or Jacinda Ardern, and why?
 
Steve,

I'd seriously like an example where made a deliberate lie with the obvious intention to deceive.

To judge by the father/grandfather example, that Guardian video that you offered us, is just full of tittle-tattle. Does it contain anything substantive at all?

David
 

Bart V

straw materialist
Member
You followed that comment with a quote that didn't seem to back up what you said?

David
Yes i confused his father with his grandfather, it was Trump's Father who lied about his heritage, claiming to be of Swedish descent.
My point still stands though, lying and draft dodging seem to run in the family.
 

Bart V

straw materialist
Member
Steve,

I'd seriously like an example where made a deliberate lie with the obvious intention to deceive.

To judge by the father/grandfather example, that Guardian video that you offered us, is just full of tittle-tattle. Does it contain anything substantive at all?

David
I gave you the example of his lie about the crowd size at his inauguration, and his lie about the border wall, Can't you get to work with that?
And i want to ask again David, would it change anything if you realized Trump was a massive liar?
 
I'd seriously like an example where made a deliberate lie with the obvious intention to deceive.
I’ve said all I’m going to say about Trump being a bullshitter, to start questioning that would be to start questioning my own judgement, if not sanity. I‘ve no wish to start what I see would be a semantic discussion with you about it. If I was to take a lie detector test that is what I would answer on the subject. I feel very confident that I would pass. (Of course that doesn’t say anything about Trump)

I‘d seriously like an answer to my question Who was it you were addressing about the SOTU? Now posed for the third time, as it suggests that I wrote something I didn’t, and being in red, I assume it was written by you as a moderator.
 
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I’ve said all I’m going to say about Trump being a bullshitter, to start questioning that would be to start questioning my own judgement, if not sanity. I‘ve no wish to start what I see would be a semantic discussion with you about it. If I was to take a lie detector test that is what I would answer on the subject. I feel very confident that I would pass. (Of course that doesn’t say anything about Trump)
I don't like semantic arguments either, and that is not my intention.

I contend that a determined group of people can nerdishly find fault with just about any public figure if they try hard enough. It is even possible to use a similar technique to prosecute someone maliciously. Saying a politician is a liar is so much easier than discussing his actual policies and aspirations.
I‘d seriously like an answer to my question Who was it you were addressing about the SOTU? Now posed for the third time, as it suggests that I wrote something I didn’t, and being in red, I assume it was written by you as a moderator.
Honestly Steve, I'd have to plough back through umpteen pages to extract the information you are asking for, but please remember, I wrote to both you an Eric because the row between you was descending in quality!

David
 
When I was a kid, I was a very disturbed one. No need to share the family drama that played a roll in this... just understand, I was really unhappy. And so one time I recall there was a rat in our yard. A rat that my beloved dog, Nikki, was toying with. I was maybe 8 years old. I knew the rat could be dangerous and I took a long stick and tried to get it to run away. But it wouldn't. And so I hit it with the stick. It still wouldn't run away. I then hit it more. hit the rat on its nose several times. The nose seemed to show blood while I hit it more and more. And then I realized I wasn't hitting the rat to make it go away anymore. I had crossed some line where I was tormenting the rat. After a few more wacks, the rat still holding his ground, I stopped, threw down the stick, called my dog to come with me and we ran inside my home... something I could have done from the very beginning but didn't.

This thread, for me, is much like this same situation. This is why I just deleted (before posting) the post I almost submitted.
 
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Honestly Steve, I'd have to plough back through umpteen pages to extract the information you are asking for, but please remember, I wrote to both you an Eric because the row between you was descending in quality!
I don’t believe you’re being honest here.
The time has come for me to leave Skeptiko as it has become a septic echo-chamber.
 
Actually CBP are the ones who say that the of the 93 miles of new wall built, at least 90 is replacement of existing barriers.

Ironically it was Trump's grandfather who lied about his German heritage:



So, lying and draft dodging seem to run in the family.
This is like debating with an autistic person. I say there really was no barrier along most of the border and what little existed by way of fencing, had holes in it and that I've seen this myself. Therefore, what Trump has built is indeed new wall. Additionally, the semantics favor my interpretation. If I buy a new car, the autistic person next door might say it isn't a new car because it replaced the older model that I used to have, but autistic people have a hard time getting their heads around concepts that normal people readily do. It's part of the disorder.
 
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I don’t believe you’re being honest here.
The time has come for me to leave Skeptiko as it has become a septic echo-chamber.
What can I do but assure you that I am. You are angry I suppose because when pushed about this issue of Trump lying, you are unable to come up with a politically significant example. I'd like to give you a chance to show me what significance Trump's 'lying' has had - after all if he is deliberately lying, it has to be for a purpose, or alternatively start to reflect on whether he has been unfairly denigrated.

Before you decide to leave the forum, I hope you will reflect on all the other threads we have going here.

David
 
If "existing barriers" need to be replaced, that, to me, says they were ineffective. So whether there is ineffective existing barriers or open terrain where a new wall is built, it is building an effective wall which, seems logical to be characterized as "new."

I guess I need to smack the rat one more time on the nose after all -


When I meet new people... people who I then find myself involved with, like in a business situation, I learn their personality traits and am able to know and understand what the individual is striving to communicate. Trump uses hyperbole. Big deal. I got over it fast and understood when he used it not to take him literally. Trump is all over the media, all over Twitter. He exaggerates, he sometimes gets something wrong.

And while the emotionally vulnerable get their panties in a wad... he gets things done. What a tactic!

Go and look at the list of accomplishments. Accomplishments achieved that I am certain few (if any) 'professional politicians' could ever achieve... they are too embedded in "the way Washington works Club." The list of achievements literally blows away any President in the modern era. The list includes a great deal of promises. The list is so big that the political opposition is literally frightened to the point that they are literally going insane and in some cases, admitting to it (finally). Trump derangement syndrome is real and what makes it worse is that he never, ever lets up. He is relentless, a fighter, and never cries uncle.

The actual, planned, complex plots against him drown out the voices who cry "he's a liar." And in the silence of that truth, the real truth emerges and this feeds the monster of those who have opened themselves to TDS - that being the realization by a group united... a group made up of those driven to achieve total power over the rest of us... a group made up of the "progressives," the managerial elite, the establishment fakepublicans, the media sycophants and the administrative deep state... a realization their dreams have been shattered, minimally set back decades... decades when, they were salivating over it in the fall of 2016. Then BAM!

I suggest these folks ask Nancy to pray for them, maybe that will help.
 

Bart V

straw materialist
Member
I'd like to give you a chance to show me what significance Trump's 'lying' has had - after all if he is deliberately lying, it has to be for a purpose, or alternatively start to reflect on whether he has been unfairly denigrated.
Since we can not see in his mind, we can never say what the purpose of any lie is, we can speculate, but we can never be sure.
Are his lies deliberate? sometimes they are, but also here we can never know for sure.
But as i said before, the alternative could be even worse, he could tell lies out of pure stupidity.

So i think to the best way to know whether he is a liar, is simply looking if the statements he makes are true or not.

For instance, if he says his inauguration drew the largest crowd, and it is demonstrably wrong, he is a liar.
I don't care why he lied about, if it is not true it is a lie.

Granted, maybe not the worst, but it is a bit symbolic, it is the one that set the tone for his whole presidency.

Now if can you cannot debunk this without resorting to whataboutisms, conspiracy theories, appeal to leftist propaganda, or moving the goalpost about what is a actually a lie, then trump is logically a liar.
 
Since we can not see in his mind, we can never say what the purpose of any lie is, we can speculate, but we can never be sure.
Are his lies deliberate? sometimes they are, but also here we can never know for sure.
But as i said before, the alternative could be even worse, he could tell lies out of pure stupidity.

So i think to the best way to know whether he is a liar, is simply looking if the statements he makes are true or not.

For instance, if he says his inauguration drew the largest crowd, and it is demonstrably wrong, he is a liar.
I don't care why he lied about, if it is not true it is a lie.
Well I have been in a few peace demonstrations in my time, and nobody could be certain how many people turned up - different estimates appeared in the press afterwards. Is that it - that is why you hate your president?

Did you hate President Clinton so much when he said, "I did not have sex with that woman". I did not think it was fair to impeach Clinton at the time, and in fact he got off - just as Trump has.

The hatred of Trump is something else - impossible to understand - and nobody seems to be able to give a coherent reason as to why they feel that way!

David
 
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