Trump Consciousness

You do not have to read every post here, the selected post are there to help you understand why people dislike Trump, and his politics.
You can not say things like this:

And then completely ignore a collection of posts that explain exactly what you asked.
It is disingenuous to participate in this thread so often, and pretend you do not know why people object to Trump and his politics.

You do not have to agree with an argument to acknowledge it exists.
Otherwise, the problem is not that you do not understand why people oppose Trump, it is more that you do not understand why people do not agree with you.

I really hope you understand that difference.




No, of course not.
As a fake CEO, sitting in a fake board room, he could not do no much harm to the rest of the world.
Nobody really cared, except maybe the people he scammed with Trump university, the contractors he stiffed, the people who lost money in his bankruptcies, the minorities he discriminated against, the wives he divorced, or cheated on, ...

But now he is blurring the separation of branches of government, openly opposing a free press, setting back environmental regulations back decades, actively working towards a dictatorship, and so much more.



Irony is completely lost on you David.
Also, if it is true, it is not name calling.
Well there is no point people just calling him a racist - you simply have to say why. Name calling is stupid if it isn't followed up by substantive argument of some sort.

The overwhelming impression I get, is that he will win in November, and if he does it will be because millions of people like his policies.
You mean the excellent economy he inherited from Obama, who pulled it from a deep crisis into a succes?
I supported Obama in his first term, but it is hard to get a feel about the state of the US economy from over here, but if Trump is so awful, do you think the Dems will replace him in the autumn?
You mean the money he lost for all the farmers with his trade wars? The deregulating protection on subprime mortgages and derivatives, so he is setting the world up for a repeat of 2008?
That could be a serious discussion point, if it didn't get lost in all the indignation!
Are you talking about his reverse Robin Hood policies where he steals from the poor to give to the rich.
Well if that is true, then obviously he will be defeated come November - that is what democracy is all about. Why is it that he is massively supported by a great swathe of relatively poor people? Does he pay them to queue for hours to attend his rallies? That was one of the first things I noticed about candidate Trump. According to the BBC he was threatening to remove Obamacare - so how was it that he had an obviously poor crowd screaming that they wanted an end of Obamacare?
His tendency to throw anybody out who doesn't agree with him, his mistrust in intelligence services, combined with his trust in dictators an religious nut cases worries me greatly.
He simply uses the powers that he has as president - I can't see why that makes him a dictator.
Discuss all you want David, but please try to inform yourself outside the right wing conspirosphere before you do.
Well nobody has the time to consume all flavours of news, I somehow doubt that you watch Fox News, for example. Fox News informed me way back that the Mueller report was based on nothing substantial - and so it turned out.
 
Another Democrat put off by leftist hate investigates the other side and discovers she has been lied to. After attending a Trump rally she decides to become an Independent.

https://medium.com/@karlyn/ive-been...t-trump-s-rally-in-new-hampshire-c69ddaaf6d07

If you had told me 3 years ago that I would ever attend a Donald Trump rally, I would have laughed while assuring you that was never going to happen. Heck, if you had told me I would do it 3 months ago, I probably would have done the same thing. So, how did I find myself among 11,000+ Trump supporters in Manchester NH? Believe it or not, it all started with knitting.​
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You might not think of the knitting world as a particularly political community, but you’d be wrong. Many knitters are particularly active in social justice communities and love to discuss the revolutionary role that knitters have played in our culture.​
...​
You see, I was one of those Democrats who considered anyone who voted for Trump a racist. I thought they were horrible (yes, even deplorable) and had worked very hard to eliminate their voices from my spaces by unfriending or blocking people who spoke about their support of him, however minor their comments. I watched a lot of MSNBC, was convinced that everything he had done was horrible, that he hated anyone that wasn’t a straight, white man, and that he had no redeeming qualities.​
But when I witnessed the amount of hate coming from the left in this small, niche knitting community, I started to question everything. I started making a proactive effort to break my echo chamber by listening to voices I thought I would disagree with. I wanted to understand their perspective, believing it would confirm that they were filled with hate for anyone that wasn’t like them.​
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That turned out not to be the case. The more voices outside of the left I listened to, the more I realized that these were not bad people. They were not racists, nazis, or white supremacists. We had differences of opinions on social and economic issues, but a difference of opinion does not make your opponent inherently evil. And they could justify their opinions using arguments, rather than the shouting and ranting I had seen coming from my side of the aisle.​
I started to discover (or perhaps rediscover) the #WalkAway movement. I had heard about #WalkAway when MSNBC told me it was fake and a bunch of Russian bots. But then I started to meet real people who had been Democrats who had made the decision to leave because they could not stand the way the left was acting. I watched town halls they held with different minority communities (all available in their entirety on YouTube) and I saw sane, rational discussion from people of all different races, backgrounds, orientations, and experiences. I joined the Facebook group for the community and saw stories popping up daily of people sharing why they are leaving the Democratic party. This wasn’t fake. These people are not Russian bots. And moreover, it felt like a breath of fresh air. There was not universal agreement in this group — some were Trump supporters, some weren’t — but they talked and shared their perspective without shouting or rage or trying to cancel each other.​
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In chatting with the folks at the taping, I said casually that I was thinking about going over to the Trump rally. The first reaction they had was a genuine fear for my safety. I had never seen people I didn’t know so passionately urge me to avoid all of those people. One woman told me that these people were the lowest of the low. Another man told me that he had gone to one of his rallies in the past and had been the target of harassment by large muscle-bound men. Another woman offered me her pepper spray. I assured them all that I thought I would be fine but that I would get the heck out of dodge if I got nervous.​
...​
So I headed over an hour and a half before the doors were scheduled to open (which was 4 hours before Trump was set to take the stage) and the line already stretched a mile away from the entrance to the arena. As I waited, I chatted with the folks around me. And contrary to all the fears expressed, they were so nice! I was not harassed or intimidated and was never in fear of my safety even for a moment. These were average everyday people. They were veterans, school teachers, and small business owners and they had come from all over the place for the thrill of attending this rally. They were upbeat and excited. In chatting, I even let it slip that I was a democrat and the reaction was “Good for you! Welcome!”​
Once we got inside, the atmosphere was jubilant! It was more like attending a rock concert than a political rally. People were genuinely enjoying themselves. Some were even dancing to music being played over the loudspeakers! It was so different than any other political event I had ever attended. Even Obama in 2008 didn’t feel like this.​
I had attended an event with all of the Democratic contenders just two days prior in exactly the same arena and the contrast was stark. First, Trump completely filled the arena all the way up to the top. Even with every major Democratic candidate in attendance the other night, and the campaigns giving away free tickets, the Democrats did not do that. With Trump, every single person was unified around a singular goal. With the Democrats, the audience booed over candidates they didn’t like and got in literal shouting matches with each other. With Trump, there was a genuinely optimistic view of the future. With the Democrats, it was doom and gloom. With Trump, there was a genuine feeling of pride of being an American. With the Democrats, they emphasized that the country was a racist place from top to bottom.​
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Today, I voted in the New Hampshire Democratic Primary for Pete Buttigieg. I genuinely feel that Pete would be great for this country, and maybe he’ll have his opportunity in the future. But tomorrow, I’ll be changing my voter registration from Democrat to Independent and walking away from the party I’ve spent the last 20 years in to sit in the middle for a while. There are extremes in both parties that I am uncomfortable with, but I also fundamentally believe that most people on both sides are good, decent human beings that want the best for the country but have dramatic disagreements on how to get there. But until we start seeing each other as human beings, there will be no bridging the divide. I refuse to be a part of the divisiveness any longer. I refuse to hate people I don’t know simply because they choose to vote for someone else. If we’re going to heal the country, we have to start taking steps towards one another rather than away.​
I think the Democrats have an ass-kicking coming to them in November, and I think most of them will be utterly shocked when it happens because they’re existing in an echo chamber that is not reflective of the broader reality. I hope it’s a wake-up call and causes them to take a long look in the mirror and really ask themselves how they got here. Maybe then they’ll start listening. I tend to doubt it, but I can hope.​
 
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Thanks 100 times for posting that, Jim!

If you had told me 3 years ago that I would ever attend a Donald Trump rally, I would have laughed while assuring you that was never going to happen.
I had a somewhat similar experience when I attended my first UKIP conference. The BBC was adamant that UKIP was a Racist part, full of borderline mentally deficient folk, and some of the members at least were also deeply unpleasant people.

The reality was just the opposite. I met a very pleasant middle class crowd - including a university professor, several school teachers, and a vicar. They were almost completely unified in political outlook. Some of the people in the party were themselves non-white, just as there are Blacks to be seen in Trump's crowds. UKIP issues overlap with Trump's agenda a lot.

A BBC crew were recording it all, so they had no excuse for not telling their viewers what a nice party we were.

The role of UKIP has been replaced by that of the Brexit Party for boring reasons I won't go into.

David
 
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Jim,

Have you ever been to a Trump rally? We sometimes come to the US on holiday, but spending a day of holiday queuing, would probably mean I would not try.

David
I have not been to a Trump rally. I don't have a car and even if it was in my own neighborhood I would probably not go unless I had a reserved seat like they have for vip's (which I am not). I would not stand in line to attend a rally, I don't like crowds either. I don't have a MAGA hat and I get a sort of sick feeling sometimes when I am watching a rally on you tube and the crowd starts chanting over a crude remark like they are sheep suffering from mass hysteria.

But I think most Republican voters are normal people, I support most of Trump's policies, and I approve of him ignoring political correctness (because pc is a means which Democrats use to silence opposition and the public should learn not to bow to it), he usually only verbally attacks people who have attacked him first. Before he ran for president he was a media darling, after he announced his candidacy, the same media couldn't say one good thing about him. I don't believe Trump is a racist. He has done many philanthropic deeds - giving money personally to ordinary deserving people, he is loyal to people who are loyal to him. I think he is unique in that he is an outsider and willing to stand up all by himself to the Democrats, the mainstream media, establishment Republicans, past presidents, political correctness nannies, international corporations, the military intelligence industrial complex, foreign countries friends and foes alike - basically all the power centers in the entire world - as I said all by himself - and because of that self assurance he get's called a narcissist. I see his "crudity" (ignoring PC) and his "narcissism", and pushiness (see below) as qualities needed at this time in history - to stand up for the interests of ordinary people and extract the US from the clutches of a world wide criminal conspiracy. But those are not qualities I would look for in a friend or employer.

Sometimes civilization needs Generals, men who like to fight, who risk everything to defend civilization, who might not be people I would enjoy hanging out with on a Saturday afternoon and talking with about personal things. But I can appreciate them for what they contribute to civilization and maybe I would enjoy meeting them and talking with them, even if I would not want to hang out with them everyday.

So I am not into the character cult. I hear Trump is a perfectionist and knows how to push people to get things done - and I am pretty sure I would not like working for him (I'm more of an 80/20 type than a perfectionist.). When I used to listen to him call into Fox and Friends before he became president, it would sound to me like he was blustering about issues he knew nothing about. That's why I was originally planning not to vote in 2016 - the stock market rose steadly under Obama and I thought it would under Hillary or Trump. I only decided to vote for Trump at the last minute because I realized I didn't want Hillary to win, so I watched a few of Trump's rallies on you tube and came to feel that although Trump wasn't talking to voters like me (there aren't enough of us to give him the election), if he really did what he promised, it would be an historic presidency and I would want to have voted for him.

So, over all, I like Trump's job performance as president, I admire his toughness, but I have mixed feelings - some good some not so good - about him as a person - like I do with everybody.

I have watched many Trump rallies on you tube and now I usually just watch the beginning - until he starts introducing the candidates the rally's are in support of - because the beginning is when he usually talks about the latest news.
 
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https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...tire-world-in-reducing-co2-emissions-in-2019/

FORGET PARIS: United States Led Entire World In Reducing CO2 Emissions In 2019​
To hear climate alarmist Greta Thunberg tell it, President Trump pulling the U.S. out of the bogus Paris climate pact was outrageous.​
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But here’s the thing, Greta. The United States didn’t fail on its goals. In fact, it surpassed them by a mile.​
According to a new report, the United States reduced its CO2 emissions last year more than any other country.​
“The United States saw the largest decline in energy-related CO2 emissions in 2019 on a country basis – a fall of 140 Mt, or 2.9%, to 4.8 Gt,” The International Energy Agency (IEA) said in the report released Tuesday. “US emissions are now down almost 1 Gt from their peak in the year 2000, the largest absolute decline by any country over that period.”​
“A 15% reduction in the use of coal for power generation underpinned the decline in overall US emissions in 2019,” the IEA said. “Coal-fired power plants faced even stronger competition from natural gas-fired generation, with benchmark gas prices an average of 45% lower than 2018 levels. As a result, gas increased its share in electricity generation to a record high of 37%. Overall electricity demand declined because demand for air-conditioning and heating was lower as a result of milder summer and winter weather.”​
 
Some people think Mueller was given the job of convincing democrats that Trump was not guilty of collusion. In my opinion, if that were true, he would not have spent two years conducting his investigating.

According to Dan Bongino, a former Secret Service Agent, Mueller knew from day 1 that there was no Russian collusion, that the "dossier" was fake. So what did Mueller investigate as special prosecutor for two years? The real purpose of Muller's investigation was to intimidate, punish and trap people mentioned in the dossier and people close to Trump. Mueller, like the gestapo or the Spanish inquisition, wanted people to be afraid of attracting the attention of his investigators. He wanted to scare people so they would not publicly support Trump and would not question the ethics of the FBI. Mueller wanted to cover up the fact that the FBI had falsified the applications for the FISA warrants the FBI used to conduct surveillance on the Trump campaign and administration to fish for dirt to use to prevent or terminate a Trump presidency. If Mueller prosecuted people for anything, even if it wasn't Russian collusion, it would seem like the FBI had been justified in its illegal surveillance of Trump.

Mueller's job was to protect the dirty cops in the FBI who had illegally spied on Trump.

And while Mueller also tried to set up a "perjury / obstruction" trap for Trump and his supporters, Mueller and his crew got caught in Trump's "give them enough rope to hang themselves" trap. They committed crimes investigating Russian collusion (for example they faked interview transcripts with General Flynn) which are now coming out.

 
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I have not been sympathetic to Roger Stone who was found guilty of charges brought as a result of the Mueller investigation because I thought as a "journalist" he was a liar and if he was convicted of perjury it was probably well deserved.

However now the fairness of his trial is coming into question and it looks like either his conviction should be overturned or he should get a new trial.

It seems that the judge deliberately filled the jury with individuals biased against Stone ignoring normal requests by Stone's lawyers to have certain individuals excluded from the jury pool.

And now as further reason to call for overturning the verdict or holding a new trial it is coming out that the forewoman of the jury (a former Democrat congressional candidate who for that reason alone the judge should never have allowed on the jury) seems to have perjured herself during the jury selection process: https://www.cernovich.com/roger-stone-jury/
 
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51498490

US Attorney General William Barr has said that President Donald Trump "undercuts" him by tweeting, making it "impossible for me to do my job".
His criticism of Mr Trump comes amid intense scrutiny of the Justice Department over the handling of a case involving Roger Stone - a convicted former advisor to the president.
The attorney general had been accused of bowing to presidential pressure.
 
Do we really need more posts to establish that there are severely unhinged members at the fringe ends of both political spectrums? Does it further the dialogue here or is there some other context you are hoping the readers take from it?
 
The way I see it is that when a nation gets stronger, the individuals of that nation feel more empowered to think for themselves. Thus the voting decisions become more and more based upon self-empowerment which better reflects the actuality of the reality.

Gamblers bet on the most likely outcome (the finality of the reality). Since Trump won in 2016, the current betting odds have never been stronger in favor of re-election. Currently in the 60% - 65% range for re-election and rising.
 
I am not really interested in posting to Alex's podcast threads because I rarely listen to the podcasts and my impression is that Alex does not like people posting who don't listen.
I just stumbled, amazed, across this post.

So, Jim, you rarely listen to Alex's podcasts. If I were Alex and had read that, I'd be asking myself why it is that you post so much to non-podcast threads, respond so little to what people say in reply, and carry on so persistently with your often virtual monologues here -- when you have your own blog where you could be posting instead?

Were I Alex and had read that you were under the impression that he doesn't like people posting who don't listen to him, I'd be asking myself how much more discourteous could someone be than to say that? I don't suppose it has occurred to you that he just might not be entirely sanguine about saturation bombing other threads?

I'm not Alex, can't read his mind, and so can't say for sure what he's thinking: for all I know, he could be copacetic with it. Suffice it to say that I personally am astounded by the nerve of it. As I see it, Skeptiko isn't merely a convenient extension of your own blog where you can feel free to post as you see fit and, by the by, have somewhere to advertise in a place that probably gets appreciably more visitors than yours does.

Why not change this? Why not show some respect and start listening to every podcast (I do), start interacting more, and thereby show less contempt for Alex and regular listeners, and contributors, to Skeptiko?
 
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