Trump Consciousness

Um, this reminds me. What does everyone think of the current coronavirus crisis? Is it over-hyped? I have a few questions before I can make up my mind. 1) The Northern Hemisphere is currently in 'flu' season. Each year a certain percentage of serious respiratory illnesses are caused by corona viruses. Are the current levels of serious cases above average? 2) I'm assuming most people tested are being tested because they are presenting with serious symptoms. This could skew death rates. Is this potential bias being taken into consideration? 3) Are people being specifically tested for covid 19 or for corona viruses, more generally?

I can't help but remember that swine flu turned out to be substantially less deadly that the usual seasonal variety. If covid's dangers are being similarly overstated, then are we not inflicting a potentially mortal economic wound on ourselves for no good reason?

Disclaimer: I am in no way qualified to comment with authority on matters medical!
 
Um, this reminds me. What does everyone think of the current coronavirus crisis? Is it over-hyped? I have a few questions before I can make up my mind. 1) The Northern Hemisphere is currently in 'flu' season. Each year a certain percentage of serious respiratory illnesses are caused by corona viruses. Are the current levels of serious cases above average? 2) I'm assuming most people tested are being tested because they are presenting with serious symptoms. This could skew death rates. Is this potential bias being taken into consideration? 3) Are people being specifically tested for covid 19 or for corona viruses, more generally?

I can't help but remember that swine flu turned out to be substantially less deadly that the usual seasonal variety. If covid's dangers are being similarly overstated, then are we not inflicting a potentially mortal economic wound on ourselves for no good reason?

Disclaimer: I am in no way qualified to comment with authority on matters medical!
If you ask me what I think, I think that the truthful information (as best as can be known) is out there. I think the projections are becoming more and more accurate and thus my confidence is more and more raised as to how serious I (and my family) take this.

I think that as the world matures, how people react to things like this is impacted by the state of mind of each and every one of us with regards to how much we allow ourselves to be influenced by the ever less relevant "media" machines and what our cosmological metaphysical world view happens to be.

With the last paragraph in mind, for me... I and my family are taking better care in washing our hands (doing it the "right way"). In addition, we are preparing mentally and emotionally to modify our social life though we are quite private people anyways. We are also using bleach wipes on the shopping cart handles when we go to the store.

And in speaking for myself and my wife (as she shared her sentiments with me) - we don't have any fear about the matter. We just don't. We have a sort of "faith" in "whatever" and there's no religious component to this faith... it is just faith.
 
If you ask me what I think, I think that the truthful information (as best as can be known) is out there. I think the projections are becoming more and more accurate and thus my confidence is more and more raised as to how serious I (and my family) take this.

I think that as the world matures, how people react to things like this is impacted by the state of mind of each and every one of us with regards to how much we allow ourselves to be influenced by the ever less relevant "media" machines and what our cosmological metaphysical world view happens to be.

With the last paragraph in mind, for me... I and my family are taking better care in washing our hands (doing it the "right way"). In addition, we are preparing mentally and emotionally to modify our social life though we are quite private people anyways. We are also using bleach wipes on the shopping cart handles when we go to the store.

And in speaking for myself and my wife (as she shared her sentiments with me) - we don't have any fear about the matter. We just don't. We have a sort of "faith" in "whatever" and there's no religious component to this faith... it is just faith.
Anyone here opposed to the development of a vaccine?
 
Anyone here opposed to the development of a vaccine?
I am not opposed because each person should have the right to choose to get it (or not). I am torn as to what I would do. Selfishly, I would choose not to. But when I think of others, I feel I should get the vaccine so that I decrease the chances I get the virus where I give the virus to another. I have noticed that the older I have gotten, the less selfish have my decisions become... so the odds are, that I would get one.
 
I am not opposed because each person should have the right to choose to get it (or not). I am torn as to what I would do. Selfishly, I would choose not to. But when I think of others, I feel I should get the vaccine so that I decrease the chances I get the virus where I give the virus to another. I have noticed that the older I have gotten, the less selfish have my decisions become... so the odds are, that I would get one.
Which is the only real rational, ethical and compassionate choice.
 
Which is the only real rational, ethical and compassionate choice.
The difference between the "you" I conclude "you" to be, and myself, is that myself, as a conscious agent who puts life and liberty above all else and who sees this one lifetime at this physical level of being as just one of likely innumerable experiences of this conscious agent, I would never, ever ask you that question because that is for you to answer for yourself. And that is why I answered as I did - noting my "lean" to getting the vaccine if I were confident in the specific vaccine and dependent on the reality at the time as best as I can discern.

But your question is an example of a disturbing trend on lovely planet Earth and I will stop here instead of spelling out what is obvious to some and yet, must be recognized by the sufferers like an alcoholic must admit their condition first, to rise above it.

What it seems so many who reside in this mindset fail to recognize is the importance of personal responsibility. Yet, without the freedom to exercise it, one's "forced" actions are hollow.

The question you are asking is actually a trick which works only for those who buy into virtue shaming techniques - tricks that I no longer fall for.

I ask you kindly not to run these games on me.
 
Maybe we're coming from a different place Sam. "Life and liberty" are pretty broad terms. I don't include, under the banner of liberty, putting other people's lives and liberties at risk as moral and ethical behavior. To the contrary, that seems quite selfish. Perhaps you can elaborate on your position here. Why did you say "Selfishly, I would choose not to"?
 
Maybe we're coming from a different place Sam. "Life and liberty" are pretty broad terms. I don't include, under the banner of liberty, putting other people's lives and liberties at risk as moral and ethical behavior. To the contrary, that seems quite selfish. Perhaps you can elaborate on your position here. Why did you say "Selfishly, I would choose not to"?
Maybe you are the one who has to interpret my posts for yourself. Do some research on vaccines. Get a clue that perhaps what you might choose to believe about them is not necessarily the truth and/or what others believe. Bottom line is that you have the choice instead of having the beliefs of others forced upon you (classic liberal/progressive mind game).

Who would be the authority everyone should be forced to trust that a.) the vaccines are safe b.) the vaccines work? 97% of "climate scientists" for example?

The most ethical, moral and rational position to take is defending your right to make up your own mind so this is my response which is my full and all encompassing position on the matter where further questions of yours will receive a copy/paste of this post.
 
Crossposting:

If a Democrat governor is thanking Trump (for helping NY State improve their ability to test for corona virus), he must be genuinely concerned about coronoa virus.

https://saraacarter.com/trump-decla...coronavirus-solutions-spur-wall-street-rally/

President Donald Trump declared a national emergency Friday to address the coronavirus pandemic, as cases around the country continue to mount.​
...​
Top executives of Target, Walmart, and Walgreens also agreed to make all their facilities available for testing of the coronavirus, Trump said.​
...​
“I’m also asking every hospital in this country to activate its emergency preparedness plan, so that they can meet the needs of Americans everywhere,” said Trump.​
“Emergency orders I’m issuing today will also confer broad new authority to the Secretary of Health and Human Services,” Trump added. “The Secretary of HHS will be able to immediately wave revisions of applicable laws and regulations to give doctors, hospital — all hospitals — and health care providers maximum flexibility to respond to the virus and care for patients,” the president continued.”​
...​
The President noted that the declaration would allow him to disperse nearly $50 billion to states, territories and localities that are fighting against the disease.​
...​
Trump also announced that he would waive interest on all student loans held by all government agencies.​
...​
“Google is helping to develop a website,” he said. “It is going to be very quickly done, unlike websites of the past, to determine whether a test is warranted and to facilitate testing at a nearby convenient location.”​
 
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...u_cR1pV3tcSvqwiPV4Z9IDJoR6n-yqoxLIjnUvfIDx_h8

Taken together, this is a massive failure in leadership that stems from a massive defect in character. Trump is such a habitual liar that he is incapable of being honest, even when being honest would serve his interests. He is so impulsive, shortsighted, and undisciplined that he is unable to plan or even think beyond the moment. He is such a divisive and polarizing figure that he long ago lost the ability to unite the nation under any circumstances and for any cause. And he is so narcissistic and unreflective that he is completely incapable of learning from his mistakes. The president’s disordered personality makes him as ill-equipped to deal with a crisis as any president has ever been.
 
Who would be the authority everyone should be forced to trust
Seems a get out of jail free card for any action or belief of an individual.

To the contrary, this question can be reversed: Are there any universal truths or must we rely on each individual's "authority" to somehow unite?

Do you support banning of smoking on airplanes? in restaurants?

Do you support seatbelt laws?
 
Seems a get out of jail free card for any action or belief of an individual.

To the contrary, this question can be reversed: Are there any universal truths or must we rely on each individual's "authority" to somehow unite?

Do you support banning of smoking on airplanes? in restaurants?

Do you support seatbelt laws?
I support an airlines right to choose to offer flights without smoking allowed.

Taxpayers pay for the roads we chose to drive on. I, as a human being, could make an error while driving which could cause harm to others. Thus the (logical) mandatory requirement that licensed drivers have liability insurance. The rates of liability insurance are impacted by the reality of accidents and the injury and death caused by auto accidents. Seat belt laws hold down the degree of injury and hold down the degree of deaths. The statistics prove this. They are based on actual, physical reality and actual real results of not wearing seat belts vs wearing them.

Whereas vaccines are not sure things like seat belts. - In fact...

Would It Be Unamerican To Refuse Coronavirus Vaccination?

By Bill Sardi
March 14, 2020

The day is going to come when the long-awaited coronavirus vaccine becomes available. Will it be your civic duty to submit to vaccination?

I’m asking you why you are believing the scare tactics of the virologists, in particular that everyone will get infected with coronavirus. Great! Then nobody will need to get vaccinated!! Because they will have already developed antibodies on their own. This is the great ruse of the coronavirus. Manipulation of the population by health authorities.

A few may be sickened – – smokers, diabetics, obese, the aged, etc. The very weak may succumb to a viral infection that would otherwise cause only mild symptoms. The healthy will either experience a mild fever or no symptoms at all.

A clinic in China reports 80% of infected individuals experienced no symptoms whatsoever. The fearmongering virologists are frightening the public, urging people to self-quarantine, and not clueing in the public that vaccines will not be necessary for those who test positive for coronavirus but have developed antibodies on their own and have mild or no symptoms. Don’t fall for the coronavirus con game.

But on a future trip to the doctor’s office, you are going to be confronted with the option to inoculate with a coronavirus vaccine. Presume you will have a choice to get vaccinated against coronavirus. How will you go about making that decision? Do you have the
If you are like many others, you don’t want to get into any arguments (i.e. you don’t want to risk losing friendship over this, and you don’t want to alienate your doctor) and may not have time to read this entire report. If you just want instruction about what to do to avoid the coronavirus and forget about the vaccine for now, skip forward to the last page of this report.

Better safe than sorry you say to yourself. Better to get vaccinated. I offer contrarian thoughts about vaccination against coronavirus. But, “what if?… you ask. I know that is what you are thinking. Deep down there is fear. And fear breeds poor decision making. But you may already have antibodies to coronaviruses. But only the vaccine gives peace of mind.

Little do we know, the problem is right there in your home – it’s your immune system. And maintaining your immune system is much more powerful than vaccines. In fact, vaccines don’t work without certain nutrients.

What is fear after all? It is indecision.

In light of the news reports surrounding the coronavirus epidemic, I now must ask: just how gullible are you?

How can a naïve public that believes almost everything it hears and sees on evening TV network news is the truth, in any way question the prevailing fear that coronavirus kills? You don’t understand, after watching hours of network evening TV news over your lifetime, that the pharmaceutical companies and vaccine makers “own” TV news? That what you are hearing is propaganda?

You mean to tell me, that after the CDC said that thousands more Americans (not really) died of the flu last year than this year, yet no panic resulted, no quarantines were called for, no hand-washing habits recommended or withdrawal from offering a handshake to friends?
“Evil draws its power from indecision and concern
for what other people think.”

Last year was worse than this year. Why didn’t TV reporters run around and report each and every case of the flu last year as they are doing now with coronavirus? The flu is just as deadly to older Americans as coronavirus. So why have public health authorities and news media chosen to frighten the public and suggest the public begin self-quarantining themselves because of this newly mutated pathogen?

Do you think what you have been told about vaccines is true? Do you think the American population is being set up, driven by fear, to clamor for a new vaccine?

You had better hope, in the rush to market, the new vaccine doesn’t have another hidden virus in it like the polio shot did, which increased the risk for cancer.

This coronavirus panic is fostered by self-interested parties who can’t even make enough people die to
totally convince you to vaccinate
.​

You are/aren’t being lied to about vaccines?

What is the Centers for Disease Control’s history with regard to transparency and truthfulness regarding vaccination?

What if I showed you convincing evidence that Americans are being lied to about vaccines? Over 9 in 10 school-age kids are vaccinated. Dutiful Americans see that their kids get the shots because that is the American way. I think there is too much fear-based pressure for parents to withhold their school-age children from being vaccinated, particularly in light of recent outbreaks of infectious diseases that are being blamed on anti-vaxxers (actually being caused by synthetic vaccines not providing life-long immunity like old-fashioned vaccines once did). That’s social pressure. But there is also legal pressure. In fact, failure to vaccinate your children is now considered child neglect these days.

Did you know that many physicians don’t vaccinate their own kids like they recommend to parents? (That’s another lie, if not a betrayal of trust.)

So, let me throw some additional evidence in front of you. Below is a chart showing the flu vaccine ineffectiveness for 15 consecutive years.

1584205316674.png

It’s what the above chart doesn’t reveal that is most troubling. The data above does not reveal that every year the flu vaccine was almost worthless among the very young (under age 6) and the very old (over age 70), the highest risk groups for death from the flu. That is because these two age groups are not able to produce sufficient antibodies after inoculation. It is the immune system, not the vaccines, that is failing.

Morbidity & Mortality Weekly Reports (Feb 16, 2018), a federal publication, noted that 43% of the 100+ million Americans vaccinated against the flu in 2018 actually got the flu (maybe even from the vaccine itself). The flu vaccine that year was barely effective for children and adults up to 49 years old, but “no statistically significant protection was observed in other age groups,” including people over age 65.

But the CDC had early data in its hands and its minions, pediatricians and pharmacists at drug stores that offer flu shots, were still urging folks to get vaccinated! How’s that for deception?

Back to the coronavirus circus

For the most part, reported cases of coronavirus in the U.S. are the result of overseas travelers returning from China and exposing their family to the virus. And the CDC began asking Americans if they would begin self-quarantining themselves? It isn’t spreading into the community. So why suggest self-quarantine? What is spreading is seasonal flu being paraded as COVID-19 coronaviral infections.

Ah, but what about those nursing home cases in the State of Washington that sprung up out of nowhere? Health authorities didn’t tell you the tests for this virus have a lot of (47%) false positives. Authorities were saying the tests weren’t even available. In one study, among 1460 cases of unexplained respiratory illnesses reported to the Centers For Disease Control, only 2% were laboratory confirmed coronavirus.

Older adults are highly vulnerable to pathogenic germs of any kind. So, should all the retirees in the U.S. vaccinate for each and every prevalent life-threatening pathogen – – the flu, pneumococcal vaccine, shingles (herpes zoster), to name a few? Should the masses vaccinate even when their immune systems aren’t up to par and they aren’t likely to make sufficient antibodies against any of these infectious diseases following vaccination?

Let me show you this…. It is a chart showing the number of people who need to be vaccinated in order for one person to benefit.

1584205366185.png
1584205392518.png

What this chart says is you and your loved ones don’t have a chance in hell of ever benefiting from inoculation.

So, what level of effectiveness do you expect from the new vaccine against coronavirus?

What more could the vaccine makers do to destroy your misplaced confidence in their products?

It’s your immune system, stupid!

When cardiologists in China examined COVID-19 coronavirus infected patients who had heart disease, they found those cardiac patients who had severe coronavirus infection had low white-blood cell counts and higher markers of inflammation and 88% of non-survivors were obese compared to just 19% of survivors. Would an available vaccine change these numbers? Not likely.

Do you understand, if your immune system is weak, none of the vaccines are likely to produce sufficient antibodies against ANY infectious disease?

Truth in numbers

As of March 8, 2020, an estimated 107,502 cases of coronavirus (diagnosis confirmed by various inaccurate methods) had been reported among a population of 58 million people in Hubei Province, China (epicenter Wuhan), or ~2 people per 1000.

That means 57,892,498 would need to be vaccinated to prevent 107,502 from being infected, with the mistaken assumption the vaccine would be 100% effective. 538 would need to be vaccinated to prevent 1 infection, and 16,666 would need to be vaccinated to prevent 1 death. In other words, the chance of you ever benefiting from a coronavirus vaccine is nil, and that is with the presumption the vaccine is 100% effective.

If the vaccine were ~33% effective as flu vaccines are overall, then even fewer would benefit (not develop infection or die). However, given vaccines of any kind don’t work well among the elderly, and given that most deaths occur among the aged, the number of deaths (3,657 as of March 8, 2020) would not likely fall, even with mass vaccination in China. So almost all adults over the age of 65 who would be vaccinated in China would still be at mortal risk. The rate of vaccination is almost meaningless, the responsiveness of your immune system is paramount.

The risk of a wrong decision
is preferable to the terror of indecision.

Of the 54 cases in the U.S. as of March 9, 36 were travel related. So, we are down to 18 infections among 325 million Americans.

I need to inform you an experimental coronavirus vaccine was tested on animals and they all died.

Do you realize every time you or your children were vaccinated, you were duped?

Modern vaccines are marginally effective. Most kids make antibodies against disease-causing infections because they have a healthy immune system, not necessarily because they were vaccinated.

HOW AMERICANS MAKE (BAD) DECISIONS
I recall film producer Aaron Russo conducted
man-in-the-street interviews about taxes.
He asked Americans if they knew of any laws
that they were required to pay taxes?
Many responded not to pay taxes would be un-American.
That is so unbelievable.
America was founded on a protest to a tea tax.
(Remember burlap bags of tea were thrown into Boston Harbor,
the so-called Boston Tea Party?)
Americans often wear their stupidity on their sleeve.
America was founded on opposition to authority.
But today, to oppose government is un-American.
To oppose vaccination is to be put on a list
to be sent to the asylum for re-education.
This is the same government that is lying to you about vaccines, and most everything else.

Cannot make an independent decision

Despite all the logical thinking I have shared, it is likely you are still not sure. You couldn’t stand up to your doctor and refuse a coronavirus shot. And that is because you are not used to making healthcare decisions, or frankly ANY decisions on your own. Too many Americans rely on their parents, government, teachers, drill sergeants, and doctors, to make decisions for them. They have never made an independent decision about their money, career, religion, or their health.

Many Americans navigate with a group-think mentality. We may like to hang with like-minded individuals (the Facebook mentality), but then again, maybe the blind are leading the blind.

In the land of the blind, a one-eyed man is king

Many Americans take a report like this and run to their trusted doctor to ask if any of this is true. Do you think a doctor is going to admit it’s all a lie, that the jig is up, that vaccination is a fraud? That doctor would face ouster from the medical board.

I’m standing out on the end of a limb attempting to convince you are making the wrong decision to vaccinate. I’m not a doctor, so it is easy to disregard what I have written here. Just for the record, doctors, government and the news media, all sources of information about vaccines, have a vested interest in them.
 
@Silence

If you fully read (or not) what I posted above, I defend your right to do so (or not).

If you have done your own homework regarding vaccines (or not), I defend your right to do so (or not).

If you, based on whatever research you have (or have not) done, decide to get a vaccine for anything (or not), I defend your right to make that decision.

Regardless of what you do in relation to any and/or all the above, I do not label you as (or suggest by the way I might make a statement directed towards you or by a question I might ask you in the way I frame it) that you are or would be justifiably labeled as:

irrational

unethical

immoral

any of the above two

or all three

Because I defend your right to make your choices and I would never assume I have more intelligence, higher ethics or greater moral capacity than you do.
 
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