Trump Consciousness

Eric don't forget science does some things very well, very well indeed. This here is one example, electronic communication. Creating models with math that predict outcomes is precisely what climatologists have been doing and continue to work on. So far the climate models are not exactly, but fairly accurate.
My issue is the other side is unwilling to investigate the vast counter argument. IMO its a mind set. We went through this with evolution of the species.
Oh yeah. Totally agree. Science is the only way to go when you want to manipulate and develop objects in the physical world. For that matter, it's a great way to think your way through most of life's situations - though not so much in matters of the heart and soul.
 
What is the definition of left vs right you are employing?
Left = anyone/any group that believes that government is the answer to all or most situations and who believes the govt grants citizens rights as opposed to citizens lending the govt limited powers.

As I said left v right isn't socialism/communism v capitalism. That's window dressing and obfuscation.
 
The crusades? Really? You have to go back that far? Come on man. Besides, the crusades can be interpreted, fairly, as a defensive action to protect Christians from Muslims.
You don't know history. tell me, when was Vlad The Impaler active (sometimes attributed to being the basis of Dracula)? Who was he impaling and why?

Also, re; your comment that you don't like Democrats either - down here in the real world planet Earth, country USA we had an election and we had two viable choices. Grey areas and imperfect choices are more common than not on our planet.
 
You must be having a feking laugh David.

Would you call the Irish troubles ‘serious’ for the UK? Was that warfare? When does it become serious? When thousands are being killed? Or maybe it’s only serious when Jews are attacked or killed, who cares about them? Because our media doesn’t report Israel’s crimes doesn’t mean that they’re not serious!
If it was any other country committing these crimes, you can bet your ass that they’d be ‘serious’. Especially if it were Russia or N Korea or any other convenient enemy.

What if you were locked up in an outside prison! What if it was your child that was shot, having their legs blown off with dum-dum bullets? Really think about that. How would you react?

“Forty Palestinians have been killed and 5,511 were wounded in the mass protests along the border fence between the Gaza Strip and Israel since March 30, the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs reported on Tuesday. The protests have been held every Friday since then.”
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east...on-casualties-in-gaza-mass-protests-1.6030556
“Israeli occupation forces and settlers have killed 295 Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza since the beginning of the year, according to a UN monitoring group.”
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/maureen-clare-murphy/nearly-300-palestinians-killed-29000-injured-2018
Steve,

The point is that many previous presidents have grappled with this problem, you can't compare Trump's performance with a vacuum, it really only makes sense to compare troubles now with what they were under previous presidents.

The troubles at the border work as follows:

Hamas would like to get suicide bombers into Israel to kill at random. The fence/wall stops them, so they send their own unarmed people against the wall to try to make a breach in the structure. If they were permitted to succeed, this would be used to sneak suicide bombers into Israel. For that reason Israeli soldiers shoot them as a last resort. They send them unarmed so that when they are shot, the UN will take up their cause as a human rights violation!

Now you tell me what the answer is to that conundrum.

David
 
The answer might be for you to look at what really goes on in Gaza.

Last resort my butt, it’s a turkey shoot. Look at the numbers David.

Does this typical example look like it’s ‘a last resort’?

You have no idea whether or not those Palestinians were "unarmed". You're just parroting what your media source said, and who knows what their angle is.

Palestinian suicide bombers are a real thing. They've killed a large number of Israeli civilians. You're going to stand on a wall and let potential suicide bombers walk up to you? Why are the Palestinians rampaging around the wall if Israeli soldiers have such a reputation for murder? Why do they throw rocks at murderers with rifles?

This is stupid.

You have merely a one sided bleeding heart story line that you have swallowed hook, line and sinker.
 
The numbers speak for themselves.

Disgusting.

https://israelpalestinetimeline.org/charts/
Please explain how Israel should cope with this situation? Should they:

a) Let Palestinians break the border down (which is their aim) and accept that as a result some bombs will explode on buses, and other crowded locations inside Israel.

b) Do what they are doing now.

c) Do something else - please specify.

The point is, the only reason Hamas sends unarmed civilians against the wall is to enable others to get through and commit terrorist acts. If unarmed civilians take part in what is a military operation they are combatants!

Hamas clearly do not care about the safety of their own people, but want to play the West for all it is worth on this. Aren't Hamas pretty disgusting for organising this type of hybrid action - part protest, part deadly military action?

David
 
c) Do something else - please specify.
Stop hating. That is what they ought to do. But they won’t, they are too afraid.
It’s a complicated situation, complicated mostly by the oppressors.

You tell me. What are the Palestinians to do? Sit in the dirt waiting to die or be slaughtered? They're already being systematically crippled in the thousands.

There’s really little point arguing about this with you David. Read some stuff, watch some videos, there’s a lot written/made by Israeli’s. Why would they lie?

I just felt I had to express dismay/push back at the paragraph you wrote in post #146.
 
Stop hating. That is what they ought to do. But they won’t, they are too afraid.
It’s a complicated situation, complicated mostly by the oppressors.

You tell me. What are the Palestinians to do? Sit in the dirt waiting to die or be slaughtered? They're already being systematically crippled in the thousands.

There’s really little point arguing about this with you David. Read some stuff, watch some videos, there’s a lot written/made by Israeli’s. Why would they lie?

I just felt I had to express dismay/push back at the paragraph you wrote in post #146.
You are the antithesis of what you think you are. The Palestinians are retarded children without agency? They can't find a way through? You deny their adulthood and their humanity. There is much they can do, but choose not to. They get all kinds of aid. They could build peaceful prosperous communities. They could get on with life. They are not "slaughtered" when they're not attacking Israel.

I'm not impressed with your display of outrage. It doesn't make me see you as a better person.

Since you feel so strongly about it. you should go join them in rampaging around on the Israel border.

What? No? Yeah, that's what I thought
 
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Stop hating. That is what they ought to do. But they won’t, they are too afraid.
It’s a complicated situation, complicated mostly by the oppressors.
Well maybe some people can do that, but try to get a whole population to stop hating while people are blowing them and their kids to pieces - it is tough.
You tell me. What are the Palestinians to do? Sit in the dirt waiting to die or be slaughtered? They're already being systematically crippled in the thousands.
Well they should read about Ghandi (probably hard because he wasn't a Muslim) . They must somehow stop Hamas using them to fight a war. As far as I can see, Israel will not attack them militarily if they stop trying to break into Israel as we discussed above.

If they 'sit in the dirt' for a short while without any violence, I'm pretty sure things would start to move in a positive direction. Huge numbers of people - like me - would regain sympathy for them, and this horrible scar could be gradually removed.

OK, then they need to realise that when Israel has relaxed the embargoes in the past, Hamas has used that as an opportunity to smuggle in more weapons. Thus they really need to elect a peaceful leadership that they can trust not to exploit any future relaxation.

Israel could obviously blast the Palestinians off the face of the earth if they wanted to, but they don't. On the other hand, Hamas would love to do exactly that to Israel - that is part of the problem that you need to face square on.

David
 
Not just Bigfoot. 99% of "scientists" will tell you there's no life after death or psi.

I guess we should all just pack it in and get back to reality because 99% of scientists!
The interesting thing is that many ardent Bigfoot hunters would also deny psi and the afterlife.

The great propaganda victory of 'Science' has been to assert that it is the arbiter of the real - by which it means the material realm. It isn't. There isn't any argument about that that is worth having.
 
I think I'd covered all the rest in an earlier post - but yes, science has simply pushed outside the boundaries of what it knows, but you wouldn't think it without pushing a bit.
It is interesting, David, how you express this - "science has simply pushed outside the boundaries of what it knows". It has become not-science - propaganda driven by commercial, political and ideological interests. Truth is no longer the goal - but compliance and containment.

That's a huge statement! Is that what you are saying?
 
You are the antithesis of what you think you are. The Palestinians are retarded children without agency? They can't find a way through? You deny their adulthood and their humanity. There is much they can do, but choose not too. They get all kinds of aid. They could build peaceful prosperous communities. They could get on with life. They are not
slaughtered" when they're not attacking Israel.

I'm not impressed with your display of outrage. I doesn't make me see you as a better person.

Since you feel so strongly about it. you should go join them in rampaging around on the Israel border.

What? No? Yeah, that's what I thought

Once again, you make underhand negative comments about what you think I am, you make it personal. You like to put people down, diminish them. I really don’t like many of your views and vice-versa, you write all kinds of shite that I ignore, can’t you do the same? With David, I thought I might make him see things slightly differently, but you I see as an interesting immovable statue. You have no receive dial, only transmit - set at ten when ranting about my posts. (Or eleven if you’re a fan of Spinal Tap.) :)

I really don’t give a shit if you’re impressed or otherwise. You use your view of spiritualism to justify what I see as backward, sometimes sick views. Frankly, I would be rather unsettled if you were to be impressed.

It’s no surprise to me that you support Israel, I see Israel largely as an arrogant bully.

Eric, you can think what you will of me. I am well liked and respected by those that matter. An angry crocodile thinking ill of me, is not something I lose sleep over.
 
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More Trump quotes:

Saudi Arabia oil supply was attacked. There is reason to believe that we know the culprit, are locked and loaded depending on verification, but are waiting to hear from the Kingdom as to who they believe was the cause of this attack, and under what terms we would proceed!
In order to get elected @BarackObama will start a war with Iran
from https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

Saudi Arabia...they buy apartments from me, they spend $40 million, $50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much.

 
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The Clintons took how much money from the Saudis? Obama is pretty chummy with them too.

Once again virtue signaling and holier than thou rhetoric has no place in the world of grown-ups that must deal with global realities. What would you have Trump (or any POTUS) do? Attack Saudi Arabia? implement regime change? How has that worked in the past?

You guys need to become consistent in your messaging. Are you against war and CIA coup plots or not? It's hating on America/power projection all the time, until you find some pet cause and then you want the people you hate to do the things you claim to hate.

As I've been saying, the biggest and most application of CIA/military comes from liberals/leftists. They want to impose social justice at the point of a gun.

I'm sure you all are still using Saudi oil in your cars, etc.

Your virtue signaling impresses me not one more iota than Steve's. You're just puffing yourselves up by heckling on the sidelines on life. You have no answers that don't result in mayhem, economic loss and death.
 
Once again, you make underhand negative comments about what you think I am, you make it personal. You like to put people down, diminish them. I really don’t like many of your views and vice-versa, you write all kinds of shite that I ignore, can’t you do the same? With David, I thought I might make him see things slightly differently, but you I see as an interesting immovable statue. You have no receive dial, only transmit - set at ten when ranting about my posts. (Or eleven if you’re a fan of Spinal Tap.) :)

I really don’t give a shit if you’re impressed or otherwise. You use your view of spiritualism to justify what I see as backward, sometimes sick views. Frankly, I would be rather unsettled if you were to be impressed.

It’s no surprise to me that you support Israel, I see Israel largely as an arrogant bully.

Eric, you can think what you will of me. I am well liked and respected by those that matter. An angry crocodile thinking ill of me, is not something I lose sleep over.
This is more incoherent emotional appeal. You have failed - deliberately I imagine - to address any of the questions that I or David have brought up.

You present yourself as someone who deeply cares about people - especially oppressed victims. But you have no solutions other than asking the people you perceive to be the oppressors to allow themselves to be killed by those you perceive to be victims.

Worse, you infantilize the victims. The poor whittle Palestinians can only sit in the dirt and be slaughtered - according to you. Well, that is not reality. They make the choice to suicide bomb. The bombers are national heroes and religious martyrs. The Palestinians could be building their land into a clean attractive peaceful place. Maybe it would be poor, but maybe not. It would be the dawn of a new day. Then, if Israel did attack them for no good apparent reason, Israel would be condemned as a pariah nation.

I do not support Israel. I support objective and real world analysis. Israel is not going away. The Palestinians are not going to get to take over Israel and run the Jews out (which is what they want to do). So some other plan should be made. People like you help perpetuate the dysfunctional revolt that keeps the Palestinians down. They see people like you buying their line and they think they are making progress. They aren't. You are enabling a failed approach to life - and you don't even see it through the cloud of moral posturing that you emit. That's my problem with you.
 
That’s interesting Eric, but I’d prefer to discuss Israel.

Here’s an up to date example of Israeli behaviour. Think up complex excuses, blame the woman, blame me, blame Hamas, do whatever you want.


Most people I know would agree that this is an unnecessary murder. It’s simply inexcusable. It’s disgusting.
First off, being shot in the leg is not a small matter. Any gunshot wound is going to be very painful and can leave the shot person disfigured and crippled for life. Additionally, a gunshot wound to the leg can be, and often is, fatal. If certain arteries are severed, the femoral artery being a key one, an excruciatingly painful death ensues in a few minutes.

Do you have any idea the damage a 5.56mm round does to a leg? Here. Have a look - https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?31666-M193-in-the-leg&s=ac222fdd8a6bf807b1024f67fce79937

Military and police are trained to shoot for the center of mass; not the limbs. The limbs of a moving person can be easily missed, even at close range. If you miss a person with a knife, they can be on you carving you up before you recover your point of aim for a follow-up shot.

Why do you make excuses for people brandishing knives at others? Is that [brandishing knives] something you and friends do? Then why do you excuse it others?

Israeli soldiers are humans and are going to react as humans do. There will be a range of reactions depending on the individual soldier, the situation and the orders and leadership at the time. Obviously, some soldiers are going to be callous jerks. Most humans become callous and even vicious when faced, daily, with people that express nothing but hatred toward them and who also try to kill them from time to time. It's a natural reaction.

Once again, you are making an argument based on emotion (your moral outrage). That is understandable as well as it is a human reaction. However, it doesn't serve any purpose. I'm more interested in how you ignore the Palestinians role in this little dance of hate and death. You seem perfectly ok with Palestinian rioting and terrorist attacks. I find that bizarre.

Also, as David said, Israel could incinerate the Gaza Strip in a matter of days if they were as horrid as you want them to be. They don't. You are picking the actions of a few soldiers and using that to smear all of Israel. You don't pick the actions of Palestinian bombers, shooters and rocket launchers to smear all Palestinians. You are making an emotional and highly biased reactive argument. I can't take that seriously; not even a little.
 
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