veridical perception during sleep

#1
Has there been any studies of people accurately hallucinating what's going on around them during sleep, by having other people talking around the sleeping subject and describing the scene? A lot of skeptical arguments against veridical OBEs focus on the person being able to construct an accurate hallucination by hearing sounds around them, during anaesthesia or cardiac arrest. So I expect this kind of veridical hallucination should be fairly common during sleep, when the brain is in a much better state than the other cases. I've never had such a thing during sleep. Has anyone here?
 
#2
Has there been any studies of people accurately hallucinating what's going on around them during sleep, by having other people talking around the sleeping subject and describing the scene? A lot of skeptical arguments against veridical OBEs focus on the person being able to construct an accurate hallucination by hearing sounds around them, during anaesthesia or cardiac arrest. So I expect this kind of veridical hallucination should be fairly common during sleep, when the brain is in a much better state than the other cases. I've never had such a thing during sleep. Has anyone here?
I don't know about any studies, but about a year ago, I was awakened in the middle of the night by a dream that my fiancee was pointing at the open gate to the pasture alarmed that the donkeys had escaped... I went outside to find that yes in fact the pasture gate was left open and the donkeys had just escaped... I quickly rounded them up and got them back in.
 

Brian_the_bard

Lost Pilgrim
Member
#3
I don't know about any studies, but about a year ago, I was awakened in the middle of the night by a dream that my fiancee was pointing at the open gate to the pasture alarmed that the donkeys had escaped... I went outside to find that yes in fact the pasture gate was left open and the donkeys had just escaped... I quickly rounded them up and got them back in.
I haven't come across anything that direct before. All I can say is "WOW!"
 
#6
I don't know about any studies, but about a year ago, I was awakened in the middle of the night by a dream that my fiancee was pointing at the open gate to the pasture alarmed that the donkeys had escaped... I went outside to find that yes in fact the pasture gate was left open and the donkeys had just escaped... I quickly rounded them up and got them back in.
Were you sleeping in your room? Were you able to hear what's going on outside? Because if you can't receive any information and you still dreamt of it, that's telepathy. I'm asking about someone who's sleeping and people are standing right next to the person, describing what's going on in the room, so the person can pick up sounds and I wonder if they can have veridical perception like that during dreaming.
 
#7
No. However, I appear capable of associating and actually converting noise into something absolutely random. For example, the noise of a lawnmower into a T-Rex or a car, heavy rain into waterfalls and so on. I suspect that is a rather common thing.
 
#8
No. However, I appear capable of associating and actually converting noise into something absolutely random. For example, the noise of a lawnmower into a T-Rex or a car, heavy rain into waterfalls and so on. I suspect that is a rather common thing.
That's the kind of perception I'd expect from OBEs, I have it all the time during dreaming, e.g. https://drpennysartori.wordpress.co...-some-findings-from-my-hospital-nde-research/

With regards to the hallucinations when I investigated what the patients reported it became apparent that they could hear the background noise and staff conversation and this was contributing to their hallucinations as their sedation was wearing off.

For example, one lady was convinced she was on theSwansea to Cork ferry. She could feel the boat swaying. All ITU patients are nursed on pressure relieving mattresses and if you lie on a bed it actually does feel as though you are on a boat, also as her sedation was wearing off she was being looked after by an Irish nurse with a very strong Irish accent.
I find it hard to believe people can hallucinate accurately during OBE using just what the doctors/nurses are talking about, and given the number of them. And in many situations during cardiac arrest they can't even hear. That's why I made this thread.
 
#9
Were you sleeping in your room?
Yes.

Were you able to hear what's going on outside?
No. We always slept with a rain/thunderstorm track on loop to drown out the constant braying of the donkeys and the dog that barks at nothing all night long.



Because if you can't receive any information and you still dreamt of it, that's telepathy. I'm asking about someone who's sleeping and people are standing right next to the person, describing what's going on in the room, so the person can pick up sounds and I wonder if they can have veridical perception like that during dreaming.
Oh... dono.

Seems like the value of such a study would be low as the mundane explanation (normal hearing) would be the default explanation?
 
#10
No. However, I appear capable of associating and actually converting noise into something absolutely random. For example, the noise of a lawnmower into a T-Rex or a car, heavy rain into waterfalls and so on. I suspect that is a rather common thing.
Turns out AI neural nets can do this too. When fed noise and then run in a feedbackloop, they generate very dreamlike images...machine dreams.
 
#11
That's the kind of perception I'd expect from OBEs, I have it all the time during dreaming, e.g. https://drpennysartori.wordpress.co...-some-findings-from-my-hospital-nde-research/

I find it hard to believe people can hallucinate accurately during OBE using just what the doctors/nurses are talking about, and given the number of them. And in many situations during cardiac arrest they can't even hear. That's why I made this thread.
It's the only kind of perception that I think is possible with limited information (be it auditory, visual or the favorite of one of our former colleagues, trough bone conductivity). The idea that the brain by itself can extrapolate and improve on that, giving us a HD display where we can correctly guess colors and redundant design details is ludicrous if this is your mechanism.

Turns out AI neural nets can do this too. When fed noise and then run in a feedbackloop, they generate very dreamlike images...machine dreams.
Seems logical. It's just jumbled sensory information being arranged into random and meaningless episodes. If you hook it to a source or device that provides it with limited information, its no surprise that the episodes can be mimicked.

No. We always slept with a rain/thunderstorm track on loop to drown out the constant braying of the donkeys and the dog that barks at nothing all night long.
Didn't you ever see Sings?
 
#14
It's an alien invasion film. The dogs at the farm (the main setting) are the first to act up and nobody knows why, leading to this:


And this:

Ahh signs... not sings... lol yes great movie! And I remember the scene...

We've got 4 dogs... two are very smart and if they bark at something there's actually something out there... the big dumb one that barks all night will bark at skunks, crickets, moles, or even the other dogs that are lying on the ground two feet away... she barks just to bark... I wish it were aliens though!
 
#15
Ahh signs... not sings... lol yes great movie! And I remember the scene...

We've got 4 dogs... two are very smart and if they bark at something there's actually something out there... the big dumb one that barks all night will bark at skunks, crickets, moles, or even the other dogs that are lying on the ground two feet away... she barks just to bark... I wish it were aliens though!
I will blame that on autocorrect...

 
#16
That's the kind of perception I'd expect from OBEs, I have it all the time during dreaming, e.g. https://drpennysartori.wordpress.co...-some-findings-from-my-hospital-nde-research/



I find it hard to believe people can hallucinate accurately during OBE using just what the doctors/nurses are talking about, and given the number of them. And in many situations during cardiac arrest they can't even hear. That's why I made this thread.
Not very related, but the only thing I remembered. There are some awareness during anaesthesia studies from a professor at Hull. One paper involved playing recording verbal targets to patients. IIRC some had partial recall of the actual target words (say... gooseberry), others recalled the target more visually, many recollections were associations like green, or sour tastes etc... others had odder experiences.

Cant remember the guy's name, but he's an expert in anaesthetic awareness.
 
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