Walkout at Susan Blackmoore lecture protesting anti-religious theme.

Discussion in 'Other Stuff' started by Jim_Smith, Aug 19, 2014.

  1. It is hard to understand how someone can humiliate her audience and then wonder why they walk out and act as if she is the victim.

    https://richarddawkins.net/2014/08/a-hundred-walked-out-of-my-lecture/
    There is also this bit
    Which has been refuted:
    https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/skeptical_misdirection#skeptical_misdirection_next11

     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
  2. BotchCat

    BotchCat New

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    Wow. I think she is so subject and addicted to her own intellect that she has lost touch with a part of humanity.

    The part on how religion is a drain on resources and make people do strange things is a terrible way to frame the healthy dialogue she was expecting. Value is subjective.
     
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  3. Imperial Philosopher

    Imperial Philosopher New

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    I would have to agree with one of the commentors on the site. If you're going to come at this angle, you can't just be like "your beliefs are bullshit" because that immediately shuts people down and they'll just get up and leave.

    And why is she even still going on about this sort of stuff? Has she joined the "I have nothing better to do than go around trying to curb the sin that is religion" club that Dawkins is the chairman of?
     
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  4. ghost

    ghost New

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    Definitely need a burning effigy of this woman.
     
  5. gabriel

    gabriel New

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  6. Obiwan

    Obiwan Member

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  7. fls

    fls Member

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    Cj always makes good sense. I wonder if he has moved over here? Not that he posted much on the old forum.

    Tactless presentations ought to be saved for when you are preaching to the choir, not that I'm a fan of them in either case, but at least it will get you in less trouble. But I was wondering what fundamentalist Christians and Muslims were doing at a Susan Blackmore lecture in the first place?

    Linda
     
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  8. malf

    malf Member

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    Two options as far as I can see:

    1. Sensitive souls turned up to the wrong gig, or

    2. Orchestrated demonstration (guerilla anti-skepticism?)
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
  9. fls

    fls Member

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    The two could be distinguished on the basis of population stats, I suspect. What proportion of students participating in the "Oxford Royale Academy" are fundamentalists? I would be surprised if half of them were.

    Linda
     
  10. gabriel

    gabriel New

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    Hard to say without being there, but it sounds like the walk-outs were not so much thin-skinned fundamentalists, as attendees bored with Blackmore's tirade on a subject that has no relevance to her area of "expertise". Imagine if a speaker accused those present of being socially inadequate geeks whose only hope of companionship was affiliation with similarly dull science fan boys, suggested they open their minds, attend to their personal hygiene, get down the Gap and smell the frick*n coffee. A few might take umbridge at that, too. Commenting on peoples' lifestyles is irrelevant to the science.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
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  11. fls

    fls Member

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    Highly doubtful. Bored people don't walk out. They fall asleep or play cribbage on their smart phone. And if boredom led to walk-outs, the activity would be so common that it wouldn't get noticed.

    Also highly doubtful. No challenges to deeply held beliefs there.

    LOL. That would kill almost all of Psi's threads and Alex's podcasts.

    Linda
     
  12. gabriel

    gabriel New

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    I disagree. The days of acquiescence to monomaniac's and egocentric's free range opinions to get the tiny nugget of knowledge for which they were employed is long gone. Students and researchers walk out of conferences all the time if they believe the speaker is wasting it. Quite a few heckle. Academic deference is behind us, thank God.
     
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  13. gabriel

    gabriel New

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    This blog comment was particularly well observed:

    [​IMG] Karla McLaren said, on February 16, 2013 at 7:29 am
    "I appreciate what you’re saying here, and I like the way you arrive at your conclusions. When I left skepticism behind, I did so because I found it to be so strongly ideological and un-selfaware. It seemed to be enough for people to call themselves Skeptics and upload all of the requisite information about dowsing, Popoff, and the unquestioned idea that all psychics are frauds and/or deluded. Some good inquiry could occur within all that ideological morass, but only because people can shine in any sort of troubling environment.

    Also, there’s a very unfortunate (and I think deal-killing) derision of social science within many areas of movement skepticism (it is looked down upon as a soft science) — but the problem with that is the study of the paranormal and the metaphysical is primarily a social scientific undertaking. Whether gods or ghosts or the afterlife exist is really not the point: what matters is how people respond to those ideas, and why.

    I was also fascinated by the crusading frame of “us against irrationality,” or “us against fraud,” or “us against woo” (“woo” is a derisive and dehumanizing term that is completely normative and accepted — and a sign of the strong ideological bent of the community) — when that polarized and dramatic frame pretty much guarantees a complete failure of outreach. In fact, I still cannot find a single skeptical site anywhere that does not treat believers or their beliefs in condescending and demeaning ways; these are not sites or organizations devoted to objective scientific inquiry. However, this subjective and polarized frame does strongly increase internal cohesion, so it’s not a complete loss.

    I’ve called skeptics “science fan boys,” and I’ve been very concerned about their ungrounded approach to science-as-certainty that you so aptly term APS. Though I honestly and truly need support in my work — to help people make sense of the many things they are being sold and urged to believe in New Age spirituality and alternative health care, the skeptical community is simply not a reliable or trustworthy source of sober, objective, or well-intentioned information. This is a source of grief for me every day, and anger."
     
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  14. fls

    fls Member

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    If it is usual for half the students to make a point of walking out of a lecture, I wonder why she made any note of it, then.

    Linda
     
  15. fls

    fls Member

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    I noticed and liked that one as well.

    Linda
     
  16. gabriel

    gabriel New

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    Perhaps she thought she was being provocative and exciting and interpreted their ennui and impatience as outrage. A bit like her hairstyles.
     
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  17. fls

    fls Member

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    Only a few were obviously outraged, and she mistakenly attributed outrage to the remainder who were merely bored and impatient? That would make sense.

    Linda
     
  18. gabriel

    gabriel New

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    My guess is a small number were offended at her intended offence, and the greater number walked out because they were bored shitless at hearing Blackmore repeat a theme for the umpteenth time. Ex-witch has Damascene conversion to statistics is not the stuff of career longevity, one would have imagined, but nobody seems to have told Sue. Until now. Let's hope she takes note.
     
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  19. steve001

    steve001 Member

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    What Karla fails to see I think isn't the belief itself that causes the perceived derision it's the how and why people believe.
    Sidenote from Karla an article she wrote for CSICOP a few years ago

     
  20. steve001

    steve001 Member

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    What Karla fails to see I think isn't the belief itself that causes the perceived derision it's the how and why people believe.
    Sidenote from Karla an article she wrote for CSICOP a few years ago

     

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