What determines where we go should there be an afterlife?

Discussion in 'Extended Consciousness & Spirituality' started by Ian Wardell, Apr 10, 2014.

  1. Ian Wardell

    Ian Wardell New

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    Should there be an afterlife I suspect we don't all go to the same place. I would speculate that the afterlife realm will consist of different levels and/or quite distinct environments. Moreover I also suspect it wouldn't be our behaviour in and of itself which determines our final destiny in the afterlife realm, but rather what might be labelled our "intrinsic essence".

    Why not our behaviour? Off the top of my head I can think of 3 reasons. Firstly, our behaviour is highly influenced by the state of our brains. Just consider someone like Phineas Gage. Or how peoples' behaviour is affected after they've consumed a large amount of alcohol. Secondly, our behavior is inevitably hugely influenced by our peers and what is deemed appropriate and acceptable and normal for ones culture. Indeed we are all actors and try to behave in a way consistent with our past actions and what other people expect of us. And thirdly, we can get into habits which are psychologically difficult to break out of.

    This is not to deny there will be a correlation between behaviour in this life and our final destination. For it seems to me that our intrinsic essence will also presumably play a large role in influencing our behaviour. However, due to the aforementioned influences, this will not be a perfect correlation; indeed perhaps far from it.

    So I would speculate that whether we go to a pleasant realm, or unpleasant realm, will be determined by our intrinsic essence. But what do I mean by intrinsic essence? Briefly I mean what we truly are. More specifically our capacity, or at least latent capacity, for love, empathy, compassion and so on, or contrariwise the presence of hatred, malice, self-absorption and so on.

    However in my opinion it seems somewhat implausible that we will be judged by any external entities or source, rather I suspect it will be our intrinsic essence which will "gravitate" us towards the appropriate levels/environments in the afterlife realm. So finding ourselves in a pleasant environment or indeed unpleasant environment in the afterlife realm (Heaven or Hell) will not be because we are being rewarded or punished. Rather it will be our innate natures which propel us there. Of course everyone at some point will probably harbour negative thoughts, and this might temporarily propel people to those realms not entirely appropriate to their essence, but their inner essence will shortly reassert itself so that we will eventually find ourselves in that environment/level which mirrors our true essence and affinities. Of course should this be correct we will find ourselves in the company of like-minded individuals.
     
  2. chuck.drake

    chuck.drake Guest

    I suspect that, if there is an afterlife, where you end up would be determined by your beliefs and conceptions about the afterlife. We can see some clues of this from OBE writers like Monroe or Buhlman in their descriptions of "belief system territories" in the afterlife zones. If these OBE experiences are exposing actual existing afterlife realms and not simply the imaginations of the projectors, then it would seem that we often times end up in the afterlife that we believe in, the one that is shaped by our deeply held conceptions of the afterlife. There is ample "evidence" that the non-physical realms are both plastic in nature in that they respond to intention, but also that they are capable of being formed into structures of some permanence. Whether any of this will hold up in the court of demise, as it were, is yet to be seen. :)
     
  3. Ian Wardell

    Ian Wardell New

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    Well if you're right and people are taught that the vast majority of us will go to hell, then we will indeed go there regardless of our inner essence or how good or evil we are! Also those who expect annihilation will indeed be annihilated at death i.e cease to exist. Also I have heard that people who expected to go to Heaven actually might encounter a hell-like realm, and vice versa. So this does not seem plausible to me.

    I speculate our beliefs and conceptions of groups of discarnate people might shape or mould the details of a particular afterlife level or environment, but more important is our inner essence.

    Also I think this physical reality might too be "plastic in nature", though perhaps not as much as the afterlife realm(s).

    I haven't read anything of OBE travelers or what discarnate entities say through mediums though. This is all purely philosophizing on my part. Any books you would particularly recommend?
     
  4. There is a lot known about the afterlife that comes to us from people who have had near-death experiences and have visited the afterlife, and from spirits who have communicated through evidential mediums. And, Ian, you are pretty much on target with your original post (above).

    There is no eternal damnation and there is no free ticket into the highest levels of the afterlife (i.e. heaven) because of faith. Your religion, your beliefs or lack of them doesn't matter. What determines where you go after death is your level of spiritual development.

    There are various "levels" in the afterlife and spirits at a similar stage of spiritual development are together in the same level. Each level has different areas within it. Assuming you are an average person at an average state of development, after death you will go to a place in the afterlife that is similar to the environment you lived in during your earth life. An American will go to a place that looks familiar to Americans. A person from a primitive, non-technological society will go to a place that looks familiar to them. This is to help you feel comfortable as you adjust to being a spirit. You will have a body, there will be natural areas and also buildings. You will also find yourself among people who are similar to you in personality. This is to prevent conflicts. As spirits develop they become more tolerant and associate with more and more different types of people. But spirits are telepathic. You can take average incarnated people and mix them up in nonhomogeneous groups and they can get along. But if they were telepathic and everyone knew the cynical stereotyped thoughts of everyone else they might not get along so well. This segregation into levels of the afterlife and regions within each level occurs more through natural laws than judgement. You "gravitate" to the place where you belong. The higher levels are nicer, they are more brightly lit, the flowers are prettier. A person who is nasty and likes being nasty and wants to do more nasty things, will go to a lower level in the spirit world where he will be among other nasty people and they will have the opportunity to be nasty to each other... until he figures out that being nasty is not really such a nice way of being and then guides will help him to develop so he can rise to a higher level.

    Information about the afterlife from accounts by NDErs can be found here: http://www.near-death.com see the section on "NDE Research Conclusions" on the home page.

    Information from spirits communicating through mediums can be found here: http://www.spiritwritings.com/library.html (scroll down to the section: Future Life in the Spirit World

    I also recommend this facebook group on the subject of the afterlife: https://www.facebook.com/groups/evidenceforafterlife/

    I have some articles on my blog and web site that provide more information:

    Evidence for the afterlife: http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/summary_of_evidence

    What you need to know to prepare for the afterlife, the principles of Spiritualism: http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/principles

    What is it like in the afterlife: http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2013/07/what-is-it-like-in-afterlife.html

    You can do no wrong, what does that mean?: http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2013/08/you-can-do-no-wrong-what-does-that-mean.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
    Haruhi and Ian Wardell like this.
  5. Ian Wardell

    Ian Wardell New

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    Good, I hope so :) And it seems compatible with what you write.

    Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

    I've requested to join that facebook group. BTW I contribute sometimes to the Human Consciousness Project Facebook group:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/humanconciousnessgroup/
     
  6. perandre

    perandre Member

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    I surely don't believe one would end up in Heaven based on belonging to the "Christian group". I do however believe that there will be judgement based on the totality of out lives, and that the God who will guide us through our judgement, is also the one who created the universe to begin with. I believe he is loving, as reported by NDE'ers.

    Example: Hitler-like persons will experience a different realm in the afterlife than Dalai Lama, in a way that makes sense and feels right/just (in the minds of our enlightened afterlife selves). Basically: a straight forward interpretation of the teachings of Jesus in the gospels (but it could be that some of the words are hyperbolic).
     
  7. chuck.drake

    chuck.drake Guest

    I'm not sure that most people who claim there is no afterlife actually believe that on a deep level. There are anecdotes of afterlife areas where residents don't even know they are dead, living in areas indistinguishable from today's suburbs for example. In that respect some of the afterlife areas may be much like many dreams in which the dreamer has no clue they are dreaming.

    If we are to be divided in the afterlife by spiritual development, then what does it mean to be "spiritual?"
     
  8. Typoz

    Typoz Member

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    Much of the NDE evidence reports that the only relevance of the concept of judgement is how we judge ourselves. However it is done in the context of going through each experience from the perspective of those we have had some effect upon during our life - which will include the positive effects as well as any harm. Often the role of the loving being who guides us through this process is to offer reassurance, comfort and encouragement as this takes place.

    In my opinion our destination isn't dependent on the outcome of this process, rather it will depend on our state of mind. Someone who has done a great deal of harm to others may be overcome with self-recrimination and may wish to withdraw in order to ponder on this, or perhaps incarnate into another earthly life in order to try to some extent to make amends.
     
  9. tim

    tim New

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    I composed something and then I wiped it because as much as think I may know an answer, I realise that I haven't got a clue. I really hope the whole
    thing (Life) turns out to be a big joke ..a big slap on the back laugh from a creator with a sense of humour. But when you look back at some of the horrors that have been perpetrated ...it's not really very amusing, is it.

    I'm not confident at all that there's no hell. I've met some people over my nearly six decades that would make your hair stand on end. If we take with us our
    current mode of thinking to the next realm, I certainly do not want to be anywhere near them.
     
  10. chuck.drake

    chuck.drake Guest

    Right. If you believed that you were the only person that mattered, and that any actions you took against others ultimately made no difference, and you ended up in a belief-system zone with other like minded individuals, wouldn't you consider that to be hell?
     
  11. chuck.drake

    chuck.drake Guest

    So say you are someone who has spent their life developing deep skills in meditation, mindfulness and concentration so that you are able to exist at a level of conscious awareness where the fabric of reality has fallen away. In addition you are able to teach others this same skill and they are able to live in a state of expanded awareness and compassion. But you also have a penchant for young married women and have caused no end of troubles in this particular regard.

    How do we define this person's development? How would we place them in the afterlife?
     
  12. tim

    tim New

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    I don't understand that paragraph, Chuck. Sorry.
     
  13. chuck.drake

    chuck.drake Guest

    I was just echoing what you said. If like meets like in the afterlife, then I don't think we need worry too much about ending up in hell.
     
  14. tim

    tim New

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    So you believe in Hell ? It's okay I'm only asking

    If Hitler went to hell, why shouldn't I end up there ? Oh of course, I wouldn't dream of doing anything remotely related to anything he did...but he came into the world an innocent baby ...and did what he did but he couldn't have done it if God didn't want him to ?
     
  15. tim

    tim New

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    The point I'm getting at is....I believe in an afterlife but I can't find any philosophy that really makes any sense.
     
  16. chuck.drake

    chuck.drake Guest

    I'm not really saying I "believe" in any of this. I can read material from different writers and put together a coherent view of what they report. I think that is different than believing something.

    I don't believe in hell. I think if an afterlife exists, it exists as an enormously plastic reality where our core beliefs will determine where we end up. In such a place, if your core belief is one of self-centered sadism, then you will likely land yourself in a self-styled reality with others of a similar bent. Some people might call that hell.

    Likewise if you have stripped yourself of concrete conceptions about the nature of reality and understand that non-physical reality is restrained only by the limits of your imagination combined with intention, then your experience might be an interesting one.
     
  17. Ian Wardell

    Ian Wardell New

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    To suppose we all come into this world as innocent babies is implicitly to endorse the supposition that the environment experienced in this life makes us everything we are.

    That is very far from my own particular position. First of all I do not believe we come into existence at conception or birth (or some time in between). Secondly even though the environment influences our behaviour heavily, I don't think this is relevant to our ultimate destination in the afterlife. In as much as behaviour is relevant, it is that aspect of behaviour influenced by what I labelled our "intrinsic essence".

    We can do all sorts of things which might be absolutely unacceptable in another time and another place eg perhaps eating meat might be absolutely unacceptable in a 1000 years time? What's important is what we are in and of ourselves.
     
  18. chuck.drake

    chuck.drake Guest

    So do you think some folks have an intrinsic essence that varies from another person?
     
  19. Ian Wardell

    Ian Wardell New

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    Yes, otherwise it would merely be our brains and ones environment that could account for differences in personality. And all souls would be indistinguishable.
     
  20. tim

    tim New

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    First of all I do not believe we come into existence at conception or birth

    Agreed, neither do I. Reincarnation seems very familiar to me. So presumably you don't think there is hell, or if you do, you don't think Hitler will remain there, assuming he went of course. Hell would be temporary ?
     

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