Discussion in 'Critical Discussions Among Proponents and Skeptics' started by politicaljunkie, Feb 25, 2015.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...y-who-died-for-a-bit-10068959.html?icn=puff-3 (very anti-NDE)
I've heard reports similar to this regarding some who believe literally that they will sleep until the Day of Judgement. And so they wait. They can spend centuries playing this role, and failing to notice any of their surroundings since they believe they are 'dead'. Eventually, out of boredom they may metaphorically speaking, open one eye a little and begin to see.
One's beliefs, if strong enough can have a great impact on what one experiences. But just believing there is nothing there doesn't really make it disappear, it just means one is unable to see it.
Though I should add, I'm speaking in general. I'm not in a position to comment directly on this individual case.
.It doesn't bother me that he seems to have experienced nothing. Many do ( experience nothing ) but many don't.. A cardiac arrest is the best "ejector" of your soul (psyche or consciousness) and it needs to be reasonably prolonged to produce an OBE. None of Bruce Greyson's subjects in his tracking of pacemaker implantations (study) had an NDE/OBE because their hearts were not stopped for long enough . Atheists ( not necessarily Political Junkie, I'm not sure what his/her views are ) may take encouragement from such nothing-there reports, naturally. And that's fine.
Here's a person that didn't experience nothing
http://www.wcvb.com/chronicle/did-they-see-an-afterlife/30768290 go to 1.50
As I've posted before, this guy could be Arouet (Attorney) ....IF.... Arouet had one of these , would he remain unconvinced ?
i dont know if we should trust that guy more then anyone else out there. was he really dead? any medical records? some funny colored brainwave diagrams? reddit sources are always odd to me.
but still - people without ndes are in the majority out there. why is that? what triggers a nde? is it totally random who got one and who isnt?
"people without ndes" or people with no memory of any experience.
If we don't remember our dreams after waking from ordinary sleep, does that mean we had no dream. Or simply an inability to remember?
Why some people have/remember one is not currently known.
I think the "Atheists having NDEs" thing is interesting.
But sometimes there's a tiny bit of skepticism in the back of my mind ( or my brain. For you materialists. ) saying:
"That atheist/materialist says "I don't fear death, because I know there's nothing after death". But I think that he/she is afraid of death DEEP down.
So his/her brain started to create hallucinations, sensations, ect. Or maybe he/she believed in NO afterlife, but started believing at the last second or minuet when "close to death".
And the reason he/she became convinced that the afterlife exists, is because he/she became very prone to magical and/or wishful thinking".
Perhaps it is unwise to read anything too profound into any "near death" or "post death" stories.
Yeah, the post-rebirth stories are more interesting anyway.
I strongly disagree. I think these experiences offer what may be a potentially rich resource offering information about the nature of reality and the nature of our existence. I think it would be wise to at least leave the door open here.
Before you accused me of repeating the same mantra, but you do the same thing: someone on the verge of death does not remember anything not invalidate all other cases of NDEs. Also, how is it possible to have experience of not having experiences? A contradiction in terms. That individual has not remembered anything, period.
Yes, Malf, it's very unwise, particularly if you prefer to be annihilated.
Obviously we shouldn't believe this. All he wants is some attention and a book deal. It will be a short book. But welcomed by the anti-afterlife crowd as convincing proof supporting their beliefs.
Besides, clearly the lack of oxygen to his brain explains why he had no experiences. Just like it explains why NDErs recount vivid experiences.
Meh. Most people who have died don't remember anything. This doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't experience anything. Parnia, for example, thinks that everyone who has had a cardiac arrest has had a NDE, but don't remember it do to cerebral trauma, etc. In any event, there is absolutely no medical documentation on offer. NDE cases might not be perfect, but at least they offer more than this bleak article.
Agreed. I took some time to think about this guy's story, and frankly find it a bit odd that he would even do an AMA, and that anyone would even really be interested. He has nothing to really offer here. "I technically died and experienced nothing". Ok. That's like me going on Reddit and offering an AMA because I slept for 7.5 hours last night and dreamt nothing. Or "it took me 30 min. to drive home from work last night and I don't remember 15 min. of it, AMA."
Moreover, for him to proclaim that NDEs are "just dreams" because he didn't have one is just straight up ignorant. Ahh the internet, where everyone is an expert on things they know nothing about.
People who don't want an "afterlife" take great comfort from such reports regardless if the guy is just trying to wind up survivalists or not. Evert Ter Beek suffered no less than five cardiac arrests but it was only the last one that produced a profound near death experience, or it was only the last one that he could remember anything. In my opinion >that< pattern of arrests with only one NDE addresses nicely the question of doubt posed here.
We are all basically the same and if some people have a soul then we all have a soul.
What does anyone make of this little girl being pushed backwards off her feet by a "soul" ? Or is there a more mundane explanation ....dunno but children do seem to have invisible play friends.
There is no such thing as the near death experiences : one is either dead or not , not almost dead or half dead ... lol
To assert that one dies a bit and then returns to life is a logical fallacy , to say the least : when one dies , one does not return to life . One is either dead or not ...
Yes. Which is one of the reasons I wrote:
I'm afraid you are wrong, Nassim. When the heart stops beating there is no respiratory effort, the pupils dilate and all electrical activity ceases in the brain after 10-30 seconds. This is the first stage of death and the person is referred to by clinicians as being dead. The patient may not stay dead but if nothing is done to revive him/her then said patient will stay dead.
Separate names with a comma.