Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, May 17, 2016.
Yes! I forgot about this one.
That was my point. It's not that important, but I think you are wrong labelling Brad as someone with the atheist view on the world.
As the side note, Snowpiercer reminds me of the novel by a Russian author Victor Pelevin, The Yellow Arrow. It has been translated into English and highly recommend it. I also suspect that the authors of the Snowpiercer borrowed some ideas from that novel.
Watch it in English and learn a little Spanish at the same time:
It's a good film, I think, but is it gnostic? Maybe there are elements that could be interpreted as gnostic--like the protagonist being a demiurge, about his creation being an illusion, that kind of thing. But it's interesting that in the end when he exits his creation, he apparently leaves his characters some independent existence.
It might not be consciously gnostic: just be a concatenation of sci-fi ideas with a little cod spirituality. Reminds me a bit of eXistenZ starring Jude Law:
ok, and I don't think this is a major point of disagreement between us, and I do get what you're saying -- I definately don't think Brad is an atheist. at the same time, he mixes some of his ideas with this new atheism nonsense. I was trying to push him on some of this. for example, he writes:
so, while I get what he's saying and generally agree with what he's saying, I totally disagree with his opening line; in fact, I tend to disagree with most things atheists say because I've learned that they usually come from a crippled materialist worldview. similarly, I generally disagree with most of this things fundamentalist Christian say because I've learned that they usually come from a fear-based, simplistic rules-based worldview. not always, but usually.
I guess that's why I jumped on the reincarnation research thing so hard... I think it reveals this divide between Brad and I.
The folks here use a lot of university words that I always have to look up, lol. (repeatedly I might add because most times the explanations of the words themselves are as arcane as the words they are meant to explain, hehe)
Philosophy text has always stymied me big time. Much much worse than even EULA's, lol. When I looked up gnostic, 'the nines' seemed like a perfect example to my brain.
Funny too, I just listened to a radio program that had this guy being interviewed using gnosticism in the biblical sense as a sort of we are all the gods of our own creation sort of thing. <shrug>
Don't ask me, I'm just along for the ride.
A sure sign they don't know what the heck they are talking about.
Truths are always simple.
Now they have discovered a new word ,& are on some mad rollercoaster .
What are these simple truths?
They are what the individual has already acquired through their own spiritual unfoldment.
On the higher plane of knowing we accumulated truths. What is knowing : 'an inner certitude that no words can express' as someone once nicely put it.
However on the plane of conscious intellect, as we daily are, we express those truth's in all manners , sometimes wrongly.
To be fair, academic words can be a shorthand way of not having to explain a concept out in a much layman like wordier way.
Says he who uses latin for his pseudonym...
naw, not really.... I couldn't use that word properly in a sentence if my life depended on it.
Now you've got me very curious as to the gnostic explanation for first cause of existence..... in plain english btw.
while we're at it, what the heck is 'detachment morality'?
Essay on Gnosticism and the X-men
Kind of shows how the whole detachment/rejection of this world and lead one to weird sociopath state. Reminds of how we supposedly have all these mystics through the ages yet during their lifetimes it's questionable how much they did to alleviate the evils of the ancient world?
Why a dash of skepticism is useful when it comes to the idea of rejecting this world. OTOH, one can also see this as the problem with the materialist conception of transcending our innate biology via technology. So on that side a warning against transhumanism and faith that Science == Progress.
To what extent are the shards of gnostic symbolism and mythology that Miguel claims are in these movies simply projections of his own imagination?
Personal interpretational overlays...
He says during the discussion that he was recently explaining the gnostic symbolism in a certain movie to a christian, who replied that he had seen the movie as filled with Christian symbolism
I'd agree that it's better to start with what we know and deal with that rather than assume a vast interdimensional conspiracy to explain the evils of the world.
I would note that Gnosticism has many strains, so it's not inherently elitist though I'd agree there is a fantasy maintained in it that people in the know can see the correct conspiracies the "sheeple" can't.
If you look at Elaine Pagel's The Gnostic Gospels you'll note that rather than a priesthood claiming to pass on the once-in-history revelations of Christ there's the idea that what's important is one's personal experience of Christ (or, arguably, Christ-consciousness).
Additionally in this thread I quoted Raj Sisodia who argues every aspect of creation can be saved, including the Archons.
Also religions that give everyone a choice to pick the "correct" faith seem to have helped perpetuated a great many horrors - slavery, Holocaust, 9/11, Boko Haram...Not sure the elitism of the Gnostics is worse than that?
Not sure how I managed to post that comment on Gnosticism in the wrong forum ...Doh!
You are right about gnosticism having many strains
And all religions are elitist
You are right about that too
I have a worldview and spiritual philosophy which is life-positive and world-positive
while not being world-centred or materialist or anything like that
Life on Earth is part of a bigger cosmic picture
I dont think we are born to escape life or the world
I think Gnosticism as a world view can be rather melodramatic and overly paranoid.
However as a hypothesis it does try to offer reasoned explanations for the odd nature of reality we find ourselves in if consciousness is immaterial, we have souls, and Psi is real.
Hermeticism, which accepts the state of things as a sort of mystical accident, might be a happy medium between Gnosticism's demonic gods and the more saccharine ideas of Love being the Answer?
Perhaps the saccharine view is in itself a misrepresentation. There are many meanings to the word "love" but I'm not sure we should choose from amongst them, the meaning may be something not understood.
I dont think human life or the living Earth are accidental - not at all
...even if there is much in life that appears to be accidental
Nor do I think life is pre-ordained or fated
There are strong currents and probabilities - even many inevitabilities; but we have a capacity for free will
I dislike the escapism and contempt for creation and life as a human being in gnosticism
because I think life and the Earth and humanity are of Cosmic significance
...as well as personal significance
For me this is an intuition
it's not an acquired belief from religion or philosophy
I cannot prove it by logic; nor can I provide scientific evidence
But the materialist who says the universe is meaningless cannot provide logic nor evidence either
Separate names with a comma.