Why do so many scientists like Sean Caroll want to deny the existence of consciousness after death?

Discussion in 'Consciousness & Science' started by Number 22, Mar 24, 2018.

  1. Number 22

    Number 22 Member

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    .....
     
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  2. Because they can't stand the fact that religion might be closer to the truth about consciousness than science?
     
  3. Hypsiprymnodontidae

    Hypsiprymnodontidae New

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    They're just left in a state of confusion because there are going to be many questions that are going to be asked once this is discovered. It already boggles the human mind anyway when it comes to materialism. I doubt that these guys really have the urge to try to disprove this because of "science" or that it sounds "illogical". There are so much to look forward to this, it could really improve a lot of issues with everyone. These guys are very odious towards this because of something else and it may have to do with the extended comprehension of the subject.
     
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  4. Number 22

    Number 22 Member

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    It is silly that people like caroll or cox deny the existence of these things, but have never learned or have some real spiritual knowledge.
     
  5. nbtruthman

    nbtruthman New

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    Arrogance, vanity and fear. Arrogance and vanity in automatically assuming that their limited knowledge of and theories about physical reality grounded in physical science are the truth of absolutely everything including human beings, and totally encompass all of reality. Fear that their lifetime commitment to and investment in materialism might be a profound mistake.
     
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  6. I was looking for something else when this old post of mine turned up in a search:

    http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/scientific-atheism-or-contra-religion.3589/#post-105179

    There are many reasons (see below for details):
    • Some scientists experience cognitive bias because materialism gives them prestige.
    • Humans can't think analytically and intuitively at the same time and due to neuroplasticity scientists become fixed in analytical thinking and they become unable to conceive of anything that cannot be proved through reductionism.
    • Certain scientists used Darwinism to make methodological naturalism a part of mainstream science - making religion heretical to science.
    • Some atheists have promulgated the fallacy that religion is at war with science. (History shows this is not correct, it is atheism that is at war with religion.)
    https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/suppressed_parapsychology

    Dean Radin, in his book "The Conscious Universe" in the chapter "Seeing Psi" proposes that some scientists may have too much self interest in preserving the materialist status quo to be objective about psychic phenomena. He writes that if this is true, belief in psychic phenomena should depend how committed a person is to the materialist world view. He then presents evidence to support this contention showing that 68% of the general public believe in the possibility of psychic phenomena, 55% of college professors also believe, 30% of American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) division heads believe, but only 6% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) believe in psychic phenomena.

    Radin points out that a skeptic might suggest that this dependency is due to greater knowledge about perceptual and memory biases that are said to lead to mistaken belief in psychic phenomena. But it is also true that the skeptics' own perceptual and memory biases might be the cause of their skepticism. It seems unlikely that there would be a great difference in knowledge about perceptual and memory biases between AAAS division heads and NAS members. However, there would be a difference in attachment to the scientific world view since being a NAS member is more prestigious than being an AAAS division head. Therefore the contention that the cause of disbelief is due to perceptual and memory biases in skeptics seems to be justified.

    It should be understood that Radin is not saying NAS members are deliberately dishonest about the existence of psychic phenomena. He is saying they are so caught up in the scientific world view, (for example, because they get a lot of personal status from it, or because they spend their careers defining that world view) that they are unconsciously unable to accept that the scientific world view might be so seriously flawed, that it could have such big gaps in it, that psychic phenomena could be real.
    https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/skeptical_fallacies#skeptical_fallacies_skeptics_rational

    Research has shown that people who think analytically rather than intuitively tend to be atheists. People who analyze problems using logic, because of their education, career, or innate characteristics, may become habituated to reductionist analysis. Reductionism is the belief that something complex can be understood by the interaction of simpler components. This way of thinking works well in many branches of science. Psychology can be explained in terms of biology, which can be explained in terms of chemistry, which can be explained in terms of physics. However, some scientists, engineers, philosophers, and other intellectuals, may become so habituated to reductionist thinking that they are unable to conceive that some phenomena cannot be explained in terms of simpler phenomena. For example, the subjective experience of consciousness, what pain feels like, or what red looks like, cannot be understood through reductionism. Psychic phenomena that cannot be explained by current scientific theories, such as telepathy, clairvoyance, psychokinesis, and precognition cannot be understood through reductionism. This is why some people who are habituated to reductionist thinking simply cannot conceive that psychic phenomena could be real or consciousness might be nonphysical and survive bodily death. Reductionists suggest consciousness is an epiphenomenon even though that is a poor explanation of consciousness because it is the best they can conceive of within their reductionist prison.

    ...

    Some people hold a grudge against religion because they have been harmed psychologically by overly dogmatic upbringing, or because some religion condemns their lifestyle choices. They may choose to vilify anything that relates to the supernatural, including psychic phenomena. Often this type of skeptic is a victim of Christianity who has been brainwashed by church logic who has substituted the extreme dogmatism of Christianity with the extreme dogmatism of the religion of materialism.
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/p/62014-contents-evidence-for-afterlife.html#articles_by_subject_science

    Why Scientists are often Narrow-minded

    George Orwell: "... the scientists themselves would benefit by a little education." Darwin agrees.
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2013/08/george-orwell-scientists-themselves.html

    Why are so Many Scientists Pseudo-skeptics?
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2013/01/someone-in-internet-discussion-forum.html

    Perceptual Bias in Parapsychology
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2014/04/perceptual-bias-in-parapsychology.html

    ...

    The Brain Can't Empathize And Analyze At Same Time
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/252241.php

    Why Don't Psychopaths Believe in Dualism?
    http://ncu9np.blogspot.com/2015/05/pl9-tsc-2012-anthony-jack-why-dont.html

    A scientific case for conceptual dualism: The problem of consciousness and the opposing domains hypothesis.
    http://tonyjack.org/files/2013 Jack A scientific case for conceptual dualism (1).pdf​
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/09/t-h-huxley-accidental-founder-of-modern.html

    Why are so many scientist skeptics? Because naturalism is an implicit part of the culture of science and science students are indoctrinated in that philosophy during their education. Naturalism is the belief that science should only study natural processes and consider natural explanations for phenomena. This is a mistake. Science should be the search for the truth where ever it leads. This flaw in the culture of science is due to a large extent to T. H. Huxley and the X club. The X Club was Founded by T. H. Huxley and played an important role in making naturalism a fundamental tenet of modern science.
    The nine men who would compose the X Club already knew each other well. By the 1860s, friendships had turned the group into a social network, and the men often dined and went on holidays together. After Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species was published in 1859, the men began working together to aid the cause for naturalism and natural history.

    ...

    More importantly, the men of the club all shared an interest in natural history, naturalism, and a more general pursuit of intellectual thought free from religious influence, commonly referred to as academic liberalism.

    - Wikipedia​
    ...

    Because of T. H Huxley and the X club, naturalism has become so ingrained in modern scientific culture and education, students don't even realize they are being indoctrinated. Because of this, Huxley can be considered a major cause of modern of science's intolerance to psychic phenomena and the source of modern pseudo-skepticism.

    It is unfortunate that Darwin was used this way in the adoption of philosophical naturalism and materialism by the scientific establishment. Materialism is a gross misrepresentation of Darwin's thinking. Darwin believed that natual laws were designed - which is a form of intelligent design. Darwin also doubted human reason could be reliable if it arose through natural selection. If you cannot trust reason, then it is not rational to believe in anything including materialism.

    ...
    Because naturalism is such an integral part of the scientific worldview, working as a scientist tends to brainwash a person into believing in physicalism. This is because scientists spend all their time trying to find physicalist solutions to problems. They get stuck thinking that way and can't conceive there might be something that current science can't explain or that there could be significant gaps in scientific knowledge. Like the proverbial man with a hammer to whom everything looks like a nail, to a scientist every question must have a physicalist answer.​
    http://darwins-god.blogspot.com/2016/04/warfare-thesis-failure-leaves-evolution.html

    Ever since Voltaire mythologized the Galileo Affair, Hume’s Philo demolished Cleanthes, and Gibbon blamed pretty much everything on the Christians, evolutionary thinking has had an unbeatable template: The Warfare Thesis. Anyone who opposes or even questions evolution is automatically branded as having religious motives. Religion is at war with science. That claim has failed the test of historiography over and over, but so what? Who cares about history? Certainly not journalists, policy makers, federal judges, textbook authors, and anyone else who matters. But now there is an entirely different, empirical, falsification of the Warfare Thesis, and evolutionists are in full-panic.
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2015/03/video-lecture-by-john-lennox-explains.html

    Lennox also makes the case that science and theology are not in conflict. Science and theology provide different kinds of explanations. You can explain a car by describing an internal combustion engine, and you can explain a car as a product of the company founded by Henry Ford. Both explanations are true, but they are different kinds of explanations. Many Nobel Prize winning scientists believe in God. Lennox says, "We owe modern science to Christianity directly. All the early pioneers Galileo, Kepler, Newton, Clerk Maxwell were all Christians." He says Christian faith is based on evidence and the faith modern scientists have that nature is orderly and subject to natural laws originated from religious beliefs about God. Science is man's attempt to understand the universe created by God. God is not a god of the gaps who's role is diminished with every scientific discovery. That misconception arises when you believe there is only one kind of explanation. God is the creator of the natural laws scientists are trying to discover.
    The conflict is between atheism and theism. Lennox sides with the theists and concludes that it is atheism that is incompatible with science.​


    Nobel Prize winners Erwin Schrödinger, Albert Einstein, Werner Heisenberg, Guglielmo Marconi, Brian Josephson, William Phillips, Richard Smalley, Arno Penzias, Charles Townes, Arthur Compton, Antony Hewish, Christian Anfinsen, Walter Kohn, Arthur Schawlow and scientists, Charles Darwin, Sir Fred Hoyle, John von Neumann, Wernher von Braun, and Louis Pasteur, believed the scientific evidence demonstrates the existence of God or that the universe was designed:
    http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/eminent_researchers
     
  7. Number 22

    Number 22 Member

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    thank for the information
     
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