Mod+ Wikipedia Wants to Delete My Page...

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Dec 7, 2015.

  1. india7

    india7 New

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    We tried for a while to change the wikipedia entry for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, to add in the mountains of evidence that the disease has a biological basis (the vast majority of which is currently denied in the entry). It became a futile endeavour...whatever we changed was soon changed back. Some people have "views" and they want that view to be the official story.
    Ever since, I lost faith in their version or reality.
    So, I wouldn't really worry what they want to do...
     
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  2. Alex

    Alex New

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    thx
     
  3. The talk includes a discussion of how wikipedia (3:57) has been complicit in the problem. Wikipedia contradicted medical research 90% of the time (5:31).
     
  4. Smithy

    Smithy Member

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    This video was an eyeopener for me. I did not trust Wikipedia already regarding all matters discussed on this forum, but that it was so bad as exposed by this lady I did not know.
    Thanks for presenting this!
     
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  5. Obiwan

    Obiwan Member

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    I thought Craig Weiler's book on the subject was very interesting too.
     
  6. Far.From.Here

    Far.From.Here New

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    LOL
     
  7. Arouet

    Arouet Member

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    Here's the study: Wikipedia vs Peer-Reviewed Medical Literature for Information About the 10 Most Costly Medical Conditions

    While I don't want to downplay the issue, we should note that it doesn't say that 90% of the information in Wiki medical articles are wrong. They studied 10 articles and discovered errors in 9 of them. The number of errors identified in each article varies.

    Unfortunately, the study doesn't provide much in terms of detail about the nature of the errors. The authors note some of the limitations of this small study.

    Limitations notwithstanding, this study confirms what I think most people hopefully already know: wikipedia should not be used as a reliable medical resource! Actually, the most shocking thing about this paper was not that there were errors found (that really doesn't surprise me much) but that apparently many physicians and medical students have used it as a reference source! Hopefully they did it just to look at the footnotes!
     
  8. Obiwan

    Obiwan Member

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    Why LOL?
     
  9. Far.From.Here

    Far.From.Here New

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    Craig so FUNNY!
     
  10. Matt²

    Matt² New

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    That is an amazing eye-opening and a hard slap in the face with a cold fish on just what a train-wreck public perception is being manipulated by throngs of non-academic and academic gate-keepers.

    Everyone should watch that discussion.
     
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  11. Smithy

    Smithy Member

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    There is a bit of problem here. I recently heard that the lady in that video has lost some credibility, because it appears she is an antivaccinant.
     
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  12. Her point is not about vaccinations but how information is communicated to the public. She could be right about astroturfing even if she is wrong about vaccinations.

    But if you want to criticize her work, you should go through several of the points she makes and show if they are valid or not. Otherwise it is just rhetorical misdirection.

    And I am surprised that someone who has to deal with arguments made by materialists criticizing NDE research would make a criticism like that. People are ridiculed and disregarded by mainstream scientists because of their interpretation of the NDE data. How is your statement any different?

    Furthermore, I don't think the vaccination issue opens her to criticism. If the public could trust scientists it would be different. But people don't trust scientists and there are good reasons not to.
    • There is an epidemic of un-reproducible published scientific papers, and an epidemic of retractions (see below).
    • A CDC Whistleblower claims there is data linking autism to vaccines that was suppressed (see below).
    • There are a lot of other problems with vaccines (see below).
    • Science is politicized to the point that the public cannot trust what scientists or the government says (see below).
    You might have a strong opinion about vaccinations, but how is the average person supposed to form an opinion? If someone doesn't agree with you on a point of science, that is not a good reason to assume they are wrong in other non-scientific areas. Scientists don't all agree on the vaccination question. How is the average person to decide?

    People are right not to trust scientists because there is an epidemic of unreproducible research and an epidemic of retractions:
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/p/62014-...erlife.html#articles_by_subject_bogus_science
    Also see this thread on the politicization of science:
    http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/video-on-the-politicization-of-science.2072/

    And these threads on the CDC whistleblower:
    Why CDC whistleblower revelations about vaccines and autism never made headlines, and what that means for science |292|
    http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threa...never-made-headlines-and-what-that-mean.2688/

    CDC Autism Whistleblower Admits Vaccine Study Fraud
    http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/cdc-autism-whistleblower-admits-vaccine-study-fraud.1217/
    Other problems with vaccines:
    When I was a child, I got very sick after taking the polio vaccine. I had pain in my legs and I couldn't walk for three weeks. My father had to carry me to the doctor. I don't know if there is a link between autism and vaccines, but I do know that scientists, doctors, and the government are not always reliable sources of information. The public and elected officials would be well served to take the Attkisson's work seriously if they want reliable information.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
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  13. Smithy

    Smithy Member

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    What's the fuss? I am not critizing anything. I am only mentioning what a few people told me. Does that imply that I agree? Come on!
    As for vaccination, I am neither for or against it. When I was a child I had my vaccinations, and never experienced any problems.
     
  14. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    I liked this at first because I thought you were being funny.
     
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  15. Far.From.Here

    Far.From.Here New

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    Being a pariah doesn't inoculate one from creating their own.
     
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  16. Steve

    Steve Member

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    This is interesting, and it is something that I'm seeing a lot recently. I'm only using this as an example of something I'm observed a number of times in my own life in the past few months. I don't have strong views one way or the other about the topics being discussed here.

    Often I am finding that no matter who it might be, my 'gurus', people I like and respect, have recently 'let me down', disappointed me for some reason. It seems that no matter what I thought of them, their true views on something or other threw me. Is it a lesson I have to learn or what? This may have been obvious to others, but it is a relatively new phenomenon to me. To give but one example, Jurgen Ziewe, someone I know (not well) and a recent guest on Skeptiko, is someone that surprised me by his reaction to a post, I thought it was odd.

    Now I don't know Smithy but I have a sense that he is well respected, even admired here of the forum.(Generally) Here he has seemingly caused a bit of 'this doesn't make sense' type thing. He has an opinion on something that a group he is kind of a member of, seem to disagree with, when it 'being Smithy' we assumed might have his views been more in line with our own. It doesn't matter about his opinions, I'm interested in the psychology of it.

    I am only making an observation, I hope no one gets offended. Usually no one does, but you never know! ;)
     
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  17. Arouet

    Arouet Member

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    The lesson is: our heroes are human. We are each fallible. We each have biases. Identifying what one thinks is the just, or the good, or the best way to live, or the desirable and being able to articulate it does not mean that one will always be successful in following that. When these folks preach, assume that they themselves are part of their intended audience.

    You are perhaps putting unfair expectations on your heroes.
     
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  18. Steve

    Steve Member

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    Yes, it probably is the lesson. Why did this wait until I'm 55 before it revealed itself in so many examples, I wonder ?

    Is there anyone in recent history that didn't have some or other flaw? Who in the world comes closest to say Jesus, living now? Did he have human flaws?
     
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  19. Far.From.Here

    Far.From.Here New

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    I was actually only making a joke using the word inoculate, since we had veered off into vaccinations. I doubt Smithy thinks the anti-vaccine people are "crazies."
     
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  20. Reece

    Reece Member

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    I'm sure most of those sages came with trickster like 'flaws.'
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2016
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