Will the veil be dropped in our lifetimes?

[KindaGamey]

So I finished "Beyond the Light Barrier." I purchased the PDF for $10 - it is unlike anything I've ever read. I'm going to have to read it again. It starts like a witches prayer or something (kind of sexual and energizing, actually), but it does get into the ideas she was given eventually. (I'd love to hear her talk about 'the experience' that led her to write this. I'm disappointed she doesn't go into that.)

The ideas in it that I found fascinating was that thought is beyond light-speed/time (meaning standing still at all points in space simultaneously) and matter is thought slowed below light-speed, the friction of that slowing is what creates what we know as time, distance, etc.. That the universe is bi-lingual: one aspect speaks the language of patriarchal mathematics and logic and materialism and causality, but it can only get you so far... nature put a light-speed barrier/logic trap there on purpose to force our evolution. The only way to truly break free is to re-embrace the inter-connectivity of the feminine and to break the speed barrier with thought. She says that we created this world of matter and then got so enraptured with our little shiny object that rather than continuing to create we have convinced ourselves that it is all that matters and our thoughts are no longer creators we are only causal re-actors, in other words, meaningless robots in a meaningless universe! (I'm not a fan of Esther Hicks // although her origin story was really interesting! //, but I watched this 'The Resonance Hunters' documentary yesterday from the great channel We Are Happy Trees and she was talking about exactly that: rather than just reacting to the emotions and thoughts that the world gives you, you need to hold a particular vibration in opposition to the world in order to create the reality you want.) Anyway, this is the great tragedy of materialism. It turns us all from magnificent co-creators into cowering victims of causality. That just happens to be a-ok with capitalism who's licking his chops over it all.

(^ I'm probably butchering her meanings in my paraphrasing here. My apologies to the chef.)

Here's her own words kind of summarized in the afterward of the book. (The rest is in that broken-prose style):


When I wrote the author I mentioned I was surprised that it was a kind of poetry (as I synchronistically had just that day downloaded a free book from an alien abductee and it turned out to be a book of poems about UFOs and experiences) and she wrote back and seemed kind of offended saying it wasn't poetry, it was a type of broken-up prose that was a 3D language intended to provoke a different type of thinking. What's odd is that a long time ago I too once wrote a book of broken-prose, I even called it that, and haven't written anything like it since. I was pretty skeptical at the time, but some of the parts of the book seem almost mystical to me now.


https://thecaseforinfinity.wordpress.com/2016/06/20/solid/

 

[Mediochre]

Do you think there is any significance to the fact that some of our technology resembles ψ in its functionality? I mean instant worldwide communications, GOOGLE, touch screens that you just fondle to make them do things - often at a distance.

I can't decide if the resemblance is trivial,or more meaningful.

David

I don't think there's an significance to it. Although it's usually one of my counters to people who believe that telepathy is outright impossible because even within the biological robot paradigm it makes sense. I usually go "you know wi-fi's a thing, right? You telling me wi-fi couldn't evolve?" and then the conversation quickly spirals to their emotional issues with telepathy.

There's still a big difference between the feeling of EMF vs the feeling of ambient energy though. EMF hits you with an impact, it feels like it's emitted from something amnd it weakens over distance. Because of that I usually reccomend people start with sensing cell phones or similar if they want to improve their energy sense since they put out a ridiculous amount of energy for something so small. However EMF also seems to destabilize your energy when it hits you, making it harder to control and making it harder for a beginner to get results which is frustrating and can make them give up early.

Ambient energy feels more like a pot overflowing, it doesn't seem to have any central source, it's just everywhere including your own body. I's also not disruptive.

Both have an obvious frequency to them, as in cycles per second, standard physics definition. Both are plainly tangible and because of that both act as very good feedback mechanisms for training. You can tell if what you're doing is changing anything, and that's the key to all of it. Ambient energy is outright superior as far as learning magic goes because it gives you feedback without making things hard to control. But EMF forces you to really know what you're doing and build up resitances to outside influence.

 

[Mediochre]

Interesting perspective on the afterlife. Cows are sacred to Hindus, not Buddhists, and the monks who burned themselves alive were Vietnamese Theravada Buddhists who were protesting the war in Vietnam.

I was refering to stories like this:

A Buddhist monk has suffered serious injuries after setting himself on fire to protest against the slaughter of cattle.

Sri Lankan police said the monk set himself on fire today near the famed Temple of Buddha's Tooth Relic in the central town of Kandy.

He reportedly had told other monks that he was burning himself to protest the killing of cattle for meat.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...slaughter-cattle-Sri-Lanka.html#ixzz4hs11M7H9
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Yeah it's from the Daily Mail but whatever.

This is somewhat of a speculation. There is a variety of psi phenomena, but none that prove there's a thing like an afterlife. Rebirth? Yes. Afterlife? Nope. Contacting spirits doesn't mean the spirits are alive. They are alive for a brief period only if their 'personality' is shined upon by the light of a living attention.

My comment was more about "let's assume this is true, what then." rather than anything based in current evidence.

That being said, at least in my expereince the spirits I've been around with have demonstrated that they exist as individual beings with their own independant agency that they exercise totally separately from what I'm doing or what I care about. Sure I have no way to prove it to anyone else but it's still what's happened.

I can see what you mean about religious influence. But you're guessing at how many people really intend suicide and the extent to which religious beliefs affect it. I can't recall reading any studies on it myself. Having dealt with this people in this situation for many years and although I can't say my own experience is typical (there being no study I have seen), I'd say it's rarely, if ever, the consideration that prevents suicide.

Nothing is really going to prevent suicide beyond the person being physically unable to do it. But worldview has a lot of say in how much it takes before someone is willing to try. Someone who believes there's even a chance that they might go to hell or might not get to go to heaven if they commit suicide is going to take longer before they are willing to try. Other factors include how easy and painless and quick it would be for them to kill themselves.

The perfect storm would be having an instant death pill in their house that is completely painless, learning that there's an aftelife, believing that the afterlife is better than here or that "anything is better than this", and believing there's no consequences for suicide. For someone like that it really wouldn't take very much for them to kill themselves.

 

[LetsEat]

sensing cell phones or similar if they want to improve their energy sense since they put out a ridiculous amount of energy for something so small

Could you be tested for this ability? Say two boxes are put before you and you can tell if there is a cell phone under them and under which box?

I can very easily see people committing suicide en masse if they found out there is an afterlife.

Why then do NDE'rs become more engaged with life and less suicidal?

"People who have had an NDE during a suicide attempt also are of particular interest. An important finding from research is that, although ordinarily a person who has attempted suicide is more likely to try again, suicide attempters who had an NDE are much less likely to try again. They say they have learned that their lives have purpose. They see life as a gift. When they face hard times, they believe their job is to deal with the problem constructively. They see all life experiences as opportunities to deepen their ability to love and to increase their knowledge." - http://iands.org/ndes/about-ndes.html

 

[Mediochre]

Could you be tested for this ability? Say two boxes are put before you and you can tell if there is a cell phone under them and under which box?

Not actually sure, I mean yes I could do the test but I'm not sure how well I'd do at it. But it'd be a fun experiment

"People who have had an NDE during a suicide attempt also are of particular interest. An important finding from research is that, although ordinarily a person who has attempted suicide is more likely to try again, suicide attempters who had an NDE are much less likely to try again. They say they have learned that their lives have purpose. They see life as a gift. When they face hard times, they believe their job is to deal with the problem constructively. They see all life experiences as opportunities to deepen their ability to love and to increase their knowledge." -

Here let me fix that for you:

"People who have had an NDE during a suicide attempt also are of particular interest. An important finding from research is that, although ordinarily a person who has attempted suicide is more likely to try again, suicide attempters who had an NDE are much less likely to try again. They say they [now believe] that their lives have purpose. They see life as a gift. When they face hard times, they believe their job is to deal with the problem constructively. They see all life experiences as opportunities to deepen their ability to love and to increase their knowledge." -

Lots of spirits have tried the whole love and light thing with me too,but their logic doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Although there are a few expections to the rule most of the encounters in the beginning were some spirit trying to convince me to more or less become a willing slave. Trying to butter me up with rhetoric like I'm special and people care about me but always slipping in the ole "but ony if you do what we say, without question" somewhere like I won't notice it. Until they realized I wasn't an idiot ruled by their emotions like many others they later admitted to having done this to and then they stopped.

Isn't it interesting that even your quote says that these people feel as if it's their "job" to deal with these things "constructively"? Who's employing them? And what's their motive for keeping that person alive and kicking? What do they stand to lose if they die? No one ever seems to ask these questions, they just go "oh shiny light being, must be good" and stop thinking.

Even the people who have helped me with various problems with magic have admitted they have a personal stake in me gaining certain abilities and I respect them for their honesty about it. Some see it as a possible means of reconnecting with loved ones who are still living, my "friends" see it as a means of getting me home to them, some see it as a means of interacting with humanity in general. Some just think it's plain cool and help for that reason alone.

So I throw out all the NDE research that shows anything to do with a moral hierarchy because it doesn't ask the important questions of who set this hierarchy up, why'd they do it, what does it get them, what do they stand to lose if people don't fall in line, Etc. Basically the astral version of following the money.

I just keep seeing people go "See, look there's evidence for this moral path thing! People keep talking about it!" and they just assume that these other beings actually give a shit about their existence for "reasons."

Here's a simple video to help with this basic concept:

I see no reason to believe it's much different on the other side. It certainly hasn't been in my experience.

 

[LetsEat]

Not actually sure, I mean yes I could do the test but I'm not sure how well I'd do at it. But it'd be a fun experiment



Here let me fix that for you:



Lots of spirits have tried the whole love and light thing with me too,but their logic doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Although there are a few expections to the rule most of the encounters in the beginning were some spirit trying to convince me to more or less become a willing slave. Trying to butter me up with rhetoric like I'm special and people care about me but always slipping in the ole "but ony if you do what we say, without question" somewhere like I won't notice it. Until they realized I wasn't an idiot ruled by their emotions like many others they later admitted to having done this to and then they stopped.

Isn't it interesting that even your quote says that these people feel as if it's their "job" to deal with these things "constructively"? Who's employing them? And what's their motive for keeping that person alive and kicking? What do they stand to lose if they die? No one ever seems to ask these questions, they just go "oh shiny light being, must be good" and stop thinking.

Even the people who have helped me with various problems with magic have admitted they have a personal stake in me gaining certain abilities and I respect them for their honesty about it. Some see it as a possible means of reconnecting with loved ones who are still living, my "friends" see it as a means of getting me home to them, some see it as a means of interacting with humanity in general. Some just think it's plain cool and help for that reason alone.

So I throw out all the NDE research that shows anything to do with a moral hierarchy because it doesn't ask the important questions of who set this hierarchy up, why'd they do it, what does it get them, what do they stand to lose if people don't fall in line, Etc. Basically the astral version of following the money.

I just keep seeing people go "See, look there's evidence for this moral path thing! People keep talking about it!" and they just assume that these other beings actually give a shit about their existence for "reasons."

Here's a simple video to help with this basic concept:

I see no reason to believe it's much different on the other side. It certainly hasn't been in my experience.

What does this have to do with people being less or more likely to kill themselves if they knew there was an afterlife?

 

[MaxUsernameLimit]

You read enough of these near death experience reports and it seems pretty clear that not only is there an afterlife, and one outside of linear time, but it isn't AFTER this one... that is who we really are. We just return to that state and choose to experience again, or not. This life is just an experience, like playing a VR holotape or something. Not to say that free will isn't real either, I believe it is.

You seriously think that more than 100 billion human beings have some form of discarnate after life existence? Very doubtful. Even if there is a thing like "afterlife", it's not life as we know it. I wouldn't call it afterLIFE at all.

Btw. you read enough of reincarnation reports and it seems pretty clear that there is one.

 

[Mediochre]

What does this have to do with people being less or more likely to kill themselves if they knew there was an afterlife?

Because the reason they are less likely isn't because they learned there' an afterlife, it's because some random dude(s) told them they're special and they plain believed it because it made them feel good. I.E the religion example I used before. Nothing about NDE's actually demonstrates that their life has purpose or value, it's just something they get told or they feel. Nothing about them demonstrates that wherever they ge taken is where they would actually go if they decided to stay or that everything is as shiny and nice as it seems. It's all an assumption. But hey it feels really good to believe so it must be truie right?

 

[KindaGamey]

It seems to me like people behind the veil are lining up to go on the ride "The Earth Experience" so why would you want to cut your theme park time short unless the rides made you really sick? I have a feeling that from the other side we'll even remember our saddest moments as a deep sweetness like the most exquisite chocolate.

It seems to me that some people are arguing from personal cynicism rather than from what is. I'm sorry your lives are bad, I've been there.

Anyway, aside from that, I meant to mention that that damn symbol Ψ happened again yesterday. It represents 23rd greek letter, number value 700, wave functions in quantum mechanics such as in the Schrodinger equation, qubit positional states.

Psi - Greek alphabet:


Screenshot from the following: (A SYNC video)
I N I T I▲T I O N

 

[KindaGamey]

Also you were discussing telepathy. What took me from being a skeptical materialist down this weird road (for the rest of my life) was a telepathic experience. This video embarrasses me, but I'm not going to record a different one and... whatever.

 

[LetsEat]

Because the reason they are less likely isn't because they learned there' an afterlife, it's because some random dude(s) told them they're special and they plain believed it because it made them feel good. I.E the religion example I used before. Nothing about NDE's actually demonstrates that their life has purpose or value, it's just something they get told or they feel. Nothing about them demonstrates that wherever they ge taken is where they would actually go if they decided to stay or that everything is as shiny and nice as it seems. It's all an assumption. But hey it feels really good to believe so it must be truie right?

What would convince you otherwise?

 

[SciFiFanatic101]

I guess everyone has their own reality tunnel explanation in regards to this whole afterlife business. Mediochre's view is one of skepticism towards a benevolent spiritual reality and pictures the affairs of souls as mere ego clashing dominated by selfish self interest. Others see it as a more harmonious place filled with love.
My own personal view is that, given what I have read, the ultimate purpose of souls is reunion with the Godhead, Nirvana or moksha. I admit I'm biased towards Buddhism and Hinduism and I agree with their view on suffering. That is, you are going to suffer continuously in samsara until you realise that all the things in the world, even romantic love, will never completely fulfill your longing for ultimate happiness and peace. Or maybe that's just the grim pessimist in me.

 

[Mediochre]

What would convince you otherwise?

Math showing how it could be anything other than self interest or a predetermined script.

If there ar many minds there are many perspectives, and with many perspectives comes many possible opinions. Each individual mind can only have direct awareness of itself since it is only itseslf and everything else is some degre of "the other." Thus it is only possible for an individual mind to be interested in itself since that's all it can ever truly know. Everything else fades into obscurity the farther away it is from the self.

Thus objectivity can only exist within a subjective framework, context. What is altrustic to one person in one situation may be malevolent to another. Furthermore, altrustic acts are done for some personal reason, even if that reason is because the person gets a good feeling when they help people. Without that good feeling, they wouldn't be doing it.

If we are all connected in a big hive mind oneness thing then no individual event matters since there was necer choice involved in teh first place and thus anything that happens is just what was always going to happen.

If we are a mix of both then the ratio of how much it is a script that was going to happen anyways and how much it's just individual opinions still adds up to the same result.

Unless it can be shown how it could be any other way from a fundamental, mathematical basis, it's just someone's opinion based on feelings. And feelings alone aren't evidence.

Here's the math explanation for self interest:

variables cannot be filled with two different constants at the same time

X = 1 = 2 is irrational since 1 does not equal 2.

Indexing 1 and 2 to a variable does not solve this since each index of X is it's own variable.

However two different variables can be filled with the same constant

X = Y = 1 works just fine because X = 1, Y = 1, 1 = 1, and thus X = Y, there's no conflicts.

Now just slot people in for the variables and their beleifs in for the constants and voila, subjective expereince. And all the irrationalities are laid bare as well.

This is a pretty multipurpose proof that I use because it works to debunk all forms of restrictive objectivity that I've come across. Such as objecive morality.

So in other words, sure, maybe these people are trying to help. But even in that case they would still be doing so in the way they personally believe is best for their own personal reasons. It would be foolish to simply assume the best when dealing with things like this.

Unless someone can mathematically prove how it could be both restrictive AND objective without existing inside a subjective framework. The only thing that can do that is absolute nothingness.

 

[materialism is bad]

Also you were discussing telepathy. What took me from being a skeptical materialist down this weird road (for the rest of my life) was a telepathic experience. This video embarrasses me, but I'm not going to record a different one and... whatever.

I just watched ur video. Did you do a double blind 5 digit number test during ur telepathy? Would be a lot stronger if you did. I guess since u couldnt reproduce it, would explain the lack of reproducible evidence that the skeptics go on about. But read this http://skeptiko.com/michael-persinger-discovers-telepathic-link/, I suspect the 2 brains do interact but most of the time not strong enough for consciousness to register the information sent. I think experiments detecting similar brain activity instead of trying to consciously register telepathy is more appropriate for telepathy research.

Math showing how it could be anything other than self interest or a predetermined script.

If there ar many minds there are many perspectives, and with many perspectives comes many possible opinions. Each individual mind can only have direct awareness of itself since it is only itseslf and everything else is some degre of "the other." Thus it is only possible for an individual mind to be interested in itself since that's all it can ever truly know. Everything else fades into obscurity the farther away it is from the self.

Thus objectivity can only exist within a subjective framework, context. What is altrustic to one person in one situation may be malevolent to another. Furthermore, altrustic acts are done for some personal reason, even if that reason is because the person gets a good feeling when they help people. Without that good feeling, they wouldn't be doing it.

If we are all connected in a big hive mind oneness thing then no individual event matters since there was necer choice involved in teh first place and thus anything that happens is just what was always going to happen.

If we are a mix of both then the ratio of how much it is a script that was going to happen anyways and how much it's just individual opinions still adds up to the same result.

Unless it can be shown how it could be any other way from a fundamental, mathematical basis, it's just someone's opinion based on feelings. And feelings alone aren't evidence.

Here's the math explanation for self interest:

variables cannot be filled with two different constants at the same time

X = 1 = 2 is irrational since 1 does not equal 2.

Indexing 1 and 2 to a variable does not solve this since each index of X is it's own variable.

However two different variables can be filled with the same constant

X = Y = 1 works just fine because X = 1, Y = 1, 1 = 1, and thus X = Y, there's no conflicts.

Now just slot people in for the variables and their beleifs in for the constants and voila, subjective expereince. And all the irrationalities are laid bare as well.

This is a pretty multipurpose proof that I use because it works to debunk all forms of restrictive objectivity that I've come across. Such as objecive morality.

So in other words, sure, maybe these people are trying to help. But even in that case they would still be doing so in the way they personally believe is best for their own personal reasons. It would be foolish to simply assume the best when dealing with things like this.

Unless someone can mathematically prove how it could be both restrictive AND objective without existing inside a subjective framework. The only thing that can do that is absolute nothingness.

Constants are defined as symbols conditioned by axioms, e.g. in peano arithmetic 1 is condition by the axiom 1=S(0), where S is the successor function symbol. 2 is conditioned by the axiom 2=S(1). In this case, X=1 is asserting every natural number is equal to 1, which is obviously false. I don't understand your post...

 

[Mediochre]

I guess everyone has their own reality tunnel explanation in regards to this whole afterlife business. Mediochre's view is one of skepticism towards a benevolent spiritual reality and pictures the affairs of souls as mere ego clashing dominated by selfish self interest. Others see it as a more harmonious place filled with love.
My own personal view is that, given what I have read, the ultimate purpose of souls is reunion with the Godhead, Nirvana or moksha. I admit I'm biased towards Buddhism and Hinduism and I agree with their view on suffering. That is, you are going to suffer continuously in samsara until you realise that all the things in the world, even romantic love, will never completely fulfill your longing for ultimate happiness and peace. Or maybe that's just the grim pessimist in me.

I wouldn't say I see it as "merely" ego clashing, just that when you look at it objectively that's what's actually going on. Likewise I don't see the "purpose" of souls being to return to the "godhead" or whatever, but even in my own calculations something like that appears likely if not inevitable to happen anyways. I can't find any basis to believe that there is an objective point or reason for anything whatsoever. Everything just "is." It's the only explanation I've found so far that never contradicts itself no matter the context.

So that's what I believe unless I find a more accurate explanation of existence.

 

[Baccarat]

Nothing wrong with speculating what could be next. None of us are wrong or right

 

[Mediochre]

X=1 is asserting every natural number is equal to 1, which is obviously false. I don't understand your post...

It's a variable declaration. I can declare X = 1 and then throw that into some other equation. But yes you're right I should've rewrote that.

To keep it simple I reduced it to the fundamentals. How you would use this is to create an equation, any equaton you want, which would represent perspective and context. The answer you get out of it can only possibly be based on the information you put into it. Making it objective but only within the subjective framework that is the equation.

 

[Typoz]

I think experiments detecting similar brain activity instead of trying to consciously register telepathy is more appropriate for telepathy research.

For someone who nominally declares that 'materialism is bad' the emphasis on a materialist approach seems a paradox?

 

[materialism is bad]

For someone who nominally declares that 'materialism is bad' the emphasis on a materialist approach seems a paradox?

I really don't think classical dualism of Descartes is correct, it has too many problems. I think materialism, the material world, is like the tip of an iceberg. For some reason we can't see all the stuff beneath the water surface. Consciousness might be the hidden iceberg underneath the water, while the brain is the visible tip. So new laws of physics must applies to brain, so as to allow for free will/violation of thermodynamics. Even without assuming anything paranormal and taking a completely materialist view, free will violates thermodynamics, so physics must be modified (unlike what the staunch materialists say, thermodynamics > free will, when it's obviously the opposite).

I believe the reason telepathy fails to be reproducible because the effect is very subtle in most situations and aren't strong enough to be consciously detected. But Persinger demonstrated it shows up in brain activity. So looking at brain activity with sensitive instruments might give consistent positive results. Maybe telepathy shows up in the unconscious, but isn't strong enough for you to notice (e.g. childhood trauma unconsciously affects you conscious actions).

 

[Typoz]

Personally my experiences of telepathy have been spontaneous and related to having a strong emotional bond with the other party. Laboratory experiments tend to bypass spontaneity by their nature, and though some experiments may test emotionally close subjects, that doesn't seem to be usual. Thus, having the most important pre-conditions ignored, it's hardly surprising that lab experiment in telepathy tend to give weak results.

As for brain activity, my view of this is that it would be necessary at the point when we attempt to communicate and share our experiences. I suspect it is at best a correlation, not a requirement.