Chester Hunter
New
Anyone here opposed to the development of a vaccine?
No... as long as each individual can decide (or not) to take it and that parents have the same choice protections with regards to their children.
Anyone here opposed to the development of a vaccine?
Sort of applies to everything you purchase and use from a third party. Hardly a basis from which one could reliably discern between what's earnest/good and what's dishonest/bad.
The only good intention is to strengthen the species overall.
The only good intention is to strengthen the species overall.
That's great. Laughed well.The vaccines are meant to strengthen the species overall by providing an IQ test: those smart enough to avoid the vaccine will remain fertile.
*********I'm not buying the asymptomatic stuff, the numbers are off in America and all of a sudden it's asymptomatic people spread 80 percent? How did they come up with this number? If one never gets tested nor has symptoms are they asymptomatic? Gtfo
Unintended consequenceThe vaccines are meant to strengthen the species overall by providing an IQ test: those smart enough to avoid the vaccine will remain fertile.
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HA HA HA "GTFO" love it. You know.. that's right. If 80% are asymptomatic, then how do we know the %? We couldn't. Who said that anyway? That 80%? WTH?
This article published in Science, the Journal of the American Association for the Advancement of Science seems to be the source of the statistic that 80% of infections come from asymptomatic cases.
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https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/03/24/science.abb3221
Substantial undocumented infection facilitates the rapid dissemination of novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV2)Ruiyun Li1,*, Sen Pei2,*,†, Bin Chen3,*, Yimeng Song4, Tao Zhang5, Wan Yang6, Jeffrey Shaman2,†See all authors and affiliationsScience 16 Mar 2020:eabb3221DOI: 10.1126/science.abb3221..."undocumented infections were the infection source for 79% of documented cases "..."These undocumented infections often experience mild, limited or no symptoms and hence go unrecognized "..."Here we use observations of reported infection within China, in conjunction with mobility data, a networked dynamic metapopulation model and Bayesian inference, to infer critical epidemiological characteristics associated with SARS-CoV2, including the fraction of undocumented infections and their contagiousness. We estimate 86% of all infections were undocumented (95% CI: [82%–90%]) prior to 23 January 2020 travel restrictions. "To me it seems reasonable because during the exponential spread of a virus with a long latency period like covid 19, most cases won't be showing symptoms yet, although many will be contagious. And once someone is showing symptoms of covid-19 they are isolated. So the only people who are really capable of spreading the infection are those who are not yet showing symptoms and those who have mild cases and don't know they are sick.
It also makes sense from an evolutionary point of view, the most successful strains of a virus will spread without disabling the host because a disabled host is going to be less mobile and less capable of spreading the virus, especially if they are dead. I think that is why so many of these really dangerous diseases cross into humans from animals. They are dangerous to humans because they have not had enough time to evolve to use the new source of hosts efficiently.
******The town web site explained that someone in my town has tested positive for covid-19 and has a child in public school. The family is quarantined at home, the families of exposed schoolmates are being contacted, and the town is closing the schools to sanitize them.
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I'm in Georgia all our schools are closed. K-12 for the academic school year. You're only allowed out if you are going to the grocery store or someplace important.
https://www.oann.com/spain-returns-...returns-defective-covid-19-test-kits-to-china
Spain Returns Defective COVID-19 Test Kits To ChinaThe Spanish government faced immense criticism following the purchase of more than half a million kits, 60,000 of which were found to be only 30 percent effective.I have a similar experience with amazon.com most of the items they sell are made in China. Some are very good quality but I also return a large fraction of what I buy because they are defective or not as described.
Turkey, Georgia and the Czech Republic have also spoken out about kits it purchased from China as being less than adequate. In some cases, instead of fixing the issue, China has blamed user error.
China forces Italy to buy same coronavirus supplies it had donated to Beijing a few weeks ago
Vaccine manufacturers have legal immunity from any harm their product causes. The Federal government defends them in a special court. It is very difficult to prove vaccine injury especially when the entire medical and legal establishment is biased towards the religious belief that vaccines are "safe and effective, safe and effective, safe and effective." To follow the data towards dissent results in excommunication and libel such as with Dr. Andrew Wakefield.
****My state, Massachusetts, now has a stay at home "advisory". Schools and non-essential businesses are closed etc and staying at home is advised but not enforced. Cities can have their own rules. I don't have a car so I bike or walk to the grocery store. No one has bothered me or asked me where I'm going - the police probably know me by sight - if they cared they know I am going for groceries. I am retired and pretty much a home body so the virus hasn't interfered with my life style much - If people weren't panicking, getting sick, dying, buying toilet paper compulsively, and trying to live without a pay check I would think it was funny that everyone is now living like I do.
I am seeing really stupid enforcement stories from around the country like someone going for a drive in Pennsylvania or a lone surfer in California being fined. Like there is no common sense application based on the intention of the law - to prevent the spread of the disease.
I don't claim to know whether covid-19 has a higher fatality rate than seasonal flu or not (Fauci acknowledged he doesn't know either), It seems to be causing more problems in some places like New York where people live close together - that might be because it is more infectious than flu. I don't know if the economic costs are worth the lives saved (I think staying home is saving lives from contagious diseases and traffic accidents). Numbers of deaths were increasing exponentially until the stay at home orders had time to influence it, but without an unethical controlled experiement it is impossible to know for sure, but I think it's possible the stay at home orders saved hundreds of thousands of lives and prevented social chaos that would have accompanied it. So I don't fault the government for taking precautions based on available data and recommendations of experts - to save lives, prevent the health care system from being overwhelmed and breaking down, and to prevent the public hysteria that would cause, but I am concerned that the enforcement is being taken beyond common sense and in some places is becoming oppression.
I think Trump is right not to put a federal stay at home order in place and to let each state decide for themselves.
I don't think the stay at home orders are part of a conspiracy (the media might be over doing it, but as I said I don't fault the govt) But I think it's possible different groups will try to take advantage of the situation. And I think the most likely conspiracy involves China disseminating false information and letting infectious people travel internationally.
I would probably not get the vaccine if/when one becomes available, if I could possibly avoid it. I had painful crippling symptoms of polio for weeks after I took the polio vaccine as a child. So I have personal evidence that leads me to be wary of vaccines. The doctors denied it had anything to do with the vaccine but could not offer any explanation for my symptoms - so I don't trust doctors in general or what they say about vaccines in particular.
I haven't had as much as a cold for years and I don't get the flu vaccine. As I said I bicycle and walk so I have reasonable cardiovascular fitness. But I'm retired and I would rather die of pneumonia at the end of a two week illness than what my close relatives have died of - cancer, altzhimers disease, multiple crippling strokes.
And I have no dependents. If I had young children dependent on me and especially if I had a health condition that put me in a high risk category, I might consider getting vaccinated.
***This 'vaccination' of manufacturers from prosecution is critical because vaccines do injure some users. The rational argument is that on the premise vaccines are necessary, and they do cause injury, the injury should be an 'acceptable risk'. But that's not an argument any politician will try to sell. Mind you its okay for parents to agree to their kids joining the military and getting killed or maimed.
However the idea that your kid enlists in societal defence against viruses by default is not an idea anybody has tried out. It could actually be that the level of injury is higher than government cares to confess, so the vaccine injury court is used to control numbers, while admitting injuries do happen.
The simple reality is that you cannot have a 'one size fits all' vaccine preparation. That is an idiotic idea. The best that can be hoped for is 'best fit' that will give 'collateral damage'.
In times when 4-5 kids were usual, there was always a 'wastage' component built in to how we thought. Now 1-2 kids is the norm and the cost of raising the blighters is monumental. For some parents the ROI calculation suggests avoiding the risk of vaccination is the best option. That may or may not be the case, but its not the best choice for the society.
Invalidating fears of vaccine injury is dishonest. It is a shared risk, like military service. But spineless politicians will never tackle that problem.
This leaves us with a real fear. A Covid 19 vaccine may be introduced at an 'acceptable risk' level of safety and nobody is told ,and actual injury concealed to prevent adverse reaction. In the US I think there is a risk that such an approach could be driven by political considerations only marginally associated with public safety - if the vaccine is affordable in the first place.
My heart goes out to US forum participants. Words fail me in expressing my empathy for your plight.
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Excellent post except where you put "orange man bad". Maybe you will say "yellow man bad" next. Stop it. Orange man was ahead of the curve when he shut down the flights from China. Just stop it. Yeah, I read your back peddling. Ya still did it. *gesh.