Mitch Horowitz, Who Inspires You Satan or Jesus? |508|

We are going to have to differ on that. The law has to set a minimum age for such activity, and that age varies from country to country, but it is important to realise that Gislaine Maxwell picked up those girls using the fact that she was a woman, and took them to that island using one excuse or another. I expect many of those girls feared for their lives so it isn't reasonable to suggest they consented. I'd like to see Gislaine and Price Andrew do many years of jail time for what they did.

David
Nah - I've listened to interviews with some of the girls. They were well steeped in delivering sexual favors prior to traveling to the island. What kind of girl from NYC is clueless about why an old man would want her to come to his house for private massages? What kind of 16 year old is working in a massage parlor in the first place (which a couple were doing before meeting Epstein)? Where the hell were their parents? One of the girls seemed pretty happy to be photoed with your royal prince. IMO, the girls were attracted to the powerful connections, lifestyle and money. There is no evidence of rape (as in forced sex) or kidnapping. The girls' allegation in large part amount to "These dirty old men took advantage of me when I was young and stupid. I want some of their money now that my life has been mispent".

As you say, we will have agree to disagree.
 
Members of the cult were arrested in Tallahassee with three children. True. What does that have to do with the CIA?

- the arrests in Tallahassee directly led to the raid of the warehouse in Washington DC
- the washington DC warehouse had evidence of child ponography including the studio
- this led to an investigation by US customs officer Ramon J Martinez
- martinez and his partner report that they were told to the investigation upon orders of the CIA
- the owner of the warehouse has deep us intelligence connections
- that tallahassee police were to stop investigating the case

as far as john brisson... he has done interviews with representatives from the tallahassee police department as well as prosecuting attorney Willie Meggs, U S Customs John Sullivan, and Ramon J Martinez’s partner Bob Harrold.
 
- the arrests in Tallahassee directly led to the raid of the warehouse in Washington DC
- the washington DC warehouse had evidence of child ponography including the studio
- this led to an investigation by US customs officer Ramon J Martinez
- martinez and his partner report that they were told to the investigation upon orders of the CIA
- the owner of the warehouse has deep us intelligence connections
- that tallahassee police were to stop investigating the case

as far as john brisson... he has done interviews with representatives from the tallahassee police department as well as prosecuting attorney Willie Meggs, U S Customs John Sullivan, and Ramon J Martinez’s partner Bob Harrold.

I'm not defending The Finders. I hate these idiotic cults - and I extra hate idiotic cults that mess with children. I have no doubt that that the finders, like cults throughout history, were doing bad things to children.

Martinez's claim that the CIA shut down the investigation is not accurate. First off, Martinez claimed that the CIA would not provide him information that he was seeking because that info, if it even existed, was classified. So let's get that straight first. The info had to do with Martinez's theories of potential international criminal activities committed by the finders; specifically importing/exporting child pornography and possible human trafficking. Martinez never claimed the CIA shut down the investigation. Who knows what kind of wild goose chase Martinez wanted to go on. Anyhow, I said before, the CIA is not a criminal investigatory agency. They're not going to let Martinez go on a fishing expedition with classified info; children or no children involved.

Next, the FBI specifically addressed Martinez's claim and determined it to be unfounded. That result is in the very documents you pointed out to me. Martinez was periphery to the case, not some kind of lead. The FBI was the lead. They apparently determined that the material found in the warehouse did not rise to the level of pornography under the law. The Finders explained that naked pics of children was just part of their life style (along with naked pics of adults). Their cult was into being natural and it was a protected religious thing. It's right there in the FBI docs. I haven't seen the pics and neither have you. You're making assumptions and so was Martinez. Again, I'm not defending the finders. I hate them, but only cases that can be successfully prosecuted will be brought before a grand jury. The FBI felt this one wouldn't fly.



The owner of the storage locker has "deep" connections to the US IC? What is a "deep" connection? They must not be very good at their job if a reporter can reveal deep ties. Members of the IC can't invest in storage facilities? Owners of storage facilities are responsible for what people put in the units? If that were true, there are a lot of storage facility owners that are going to be put in jail. Fortunately, I don't think there is any law or legal precedent to support your idea. Like I said, everyone in the DC area works for govt/military in some capacity.

This - CIA running The Finders - is a classic conspiracy theory based on the most flimsy of circumstantial "evidence" and then lots of coloring in blank spaces with pure speculation.

Sorry Alex. I think your shows on psi, life after death, ET and the rest of that genre are excellent. I love 'em. But this conspiracy theory stuff is unfortunate. Now Covid, that is a conspiracy compounded by group think and fear. Just because some little fringe program called MK Ultra existed and did indeed do bad things (for which they were caught and publicly excoriated) doesn't mean that everything the CIA does is along those lines and that everything unpleasant in the world is a CIA operation. Mostly the CIA is just incompetent, especially since Obama, because politicians and other interest groups interfere with the analysis.
 
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Anyhow, for those moralizing about underage sex, etc. - just keep in mind that our governments must approve. Many of the tens of thousand of Afghan refugees are arriving into the western world with child brides. It's just part of the new normal. It would seem that at least the democrats among us actually approve. They voted for this crap. CIA plot? Nope. Just morons virtue signaling their way to hell.
 
Martinez's claim that the CIA shut down the investigation is not accurate. First off, Martinez claimed that the CIA would not provide him information that he was seeking because that info, if it even existed, was classified. So let's get that straight first. The info had to do with Martinez's theories of potential international criminal activities committed by the finders; specifically importing/exporting child pornography and possible human trafficking. Martinez never claimed the CIA shut down the investigation. Who knows what kind of wild goose chase Martinez wanted to go on.

The subsequent and final publicly available Customs document penned by Martinez is dated April 13, 1987 — more than two months after his previously discussed report. In it, he summarizes salient points from his earlier report:

https://citizentruth.org/losing-fin...nts-that-linked-the-infamous-cult-to-the-cia/

On Thursday, February 5, 1987, Senior Special Agent Harrold and I assisted the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Police Department (MPD) with two search warrants involving the possible sexual exploitation of children. During the course of the search warrants, numerous documents were discovered which appeared to be concerned with international trafficking in children, high tech transfer to the United Kingdom, and international transfer of currency.

Martinez goes on to describe what followed after the searches were completed, stating:

On March 31, 1987, I contacted Detective James Bradley of the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Police Department (MPD). I was to meet with Detective Bradley to review the documents seized pursuant to two search warrants executed in February 1987. The meeting was to take place on April 2 or 3, 1987.

On April 2, 1987, I arrived at MPD at approximately 9:00 a.m. Detective Bradley was not available. I spoke to a third party who was willing to discuss the case with me on a strictly “off the record” basis.

I was advised that all the passport data had been turned over to the State Department for their investigation. The State Department, in turn, advised MPD that all travel and use of the passports by the holders of the passports was within the law and no action would be taken. This included travel to Moscow, North Korea, and North Vietnam from the late 1950’s to mid 1970’s.

The individual further advised me of circumstances which indicated that the investigation into the activity of the FINDERS had become a CIA internal matter. The MPD report has been classified secret and was not available for review. I was advised that the FBI had withdrawn from the investigation several weeks prior and that the FBI Foreign Counter Intelligence [sic] Division had directed MPD not to advise the FBI Washington Field Office of anything that had transpired.

No further information will be available. No further action will be taken. No action to be taken on the basis of this report.


=====

I don't think it's reasonable to process all this verifiable evidence of the sex crimes against children and the claims by those like martinez and others who were in the official capacity to investigate... it's just seems kind of silly to defend US intelligence agencies in the face of all this evidence.
 
The subsequent and final publicly available Customs document penned by Martinez is dated April 13, 1987 — more than two months after his previously discussed report. In it, he summarizes salient points from his earlier report:

https://citizentruth.org/losing-fin...nts-that-linked-the-infamous-cult-to-the-cia/

On Thursday, February 5, 1987, Senior Special Agent Harrold and I assisted the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Police Department (MPD) with two search warrants involving the possible sexual exploitation of children. During the course of the search warrants, numerous documents were discovered which appeared to be concerned with international trafficking in children, high tech transfer to the United Kingdom, and international transfer of currency.

Martinez goes on to describe what followed after the searches were completed, stating:

On March 31, 1987, I contacted Detective James Bradley of the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Police Department (MPD). I was to meet with Detective Bradley to review the documents seized pursuant to two search warrants executed in February 1987. The meeting was to take place on April 2 or 3, 1987.

On April 2, 1987, I arrived at MPD at approximately 9:00 a.m. Detective Bradley was not available. I spoke to a third party who was willing to discuss the case with me on a strictly “off the record” basis.

I was advised that all the passport data had been turned over to the State Department for their investigation. The State Department, in turn, advised MPD that all travel and use of the passports by the holders of the passports was within the law and no action would be taken. This included travel to Moscow, North Korea, and North Vietnam from the late 1950’s to mid 1970’s.

The individual further advised me of circumstances which indicated that the investigation into the activity of the FINDERS had become a CIA internal matter. The MPD report has been classified secret and was not available for review. I was advised that the FBI had withdrawn from the investigation several weeks prior and that the FBI Foreign Counter Intelligence [sic] Division had directed MPD not to advise the FBI Washington Field Office of anything that had transpired.

No further information will be available. No further action will be taken. No action to be taken on the basis of this report.

=====

I don't think it's reasonable to process all this verifiable evidence of the sex crimes against children and the claims by those like martinez and others who were in the official capacity to investigate... it's just seems kind of silly to defend US intelligence agencies in the face of all this evidence.
Alex,
You are reading a lot into a little.

How does anything in your most recent comment suggest - let alone prove - that the CIA was running the Finders cult as an operation? By way of a reminder, that was, after all, your original claim.

You have one statement made by a customs agent, Martinez. Martinez didn't even hear from the CIA directly. He's repeating what he recalls being told by someone who's also repeating what he's allegedly been told. That is called "hearsay" and is not admissible in a court of law. It's not like anyone has a recording of what the CIA said. On top of that, if the CIA did pretty much say what they are alleged to have said, I a) agree with the CIA and b) there is nothing in the statement that points to the CIA running the Finders, or even turning a blind eye to child trafficking/molestation.

Yes, if you're traveling to communist countries, the CIA is going to be looking at you. No, the CIA isn't going to tell some low level cop what they have gathered. The CIA isn't in the business of investigating criminals for the purpose of bringing them to justice unless the criminals are also involved in a national security threat. In government bureaucracy the bureaus stay in their lanes. They focus where the funding directs them to focus. The bureaus do not cooperate well. Lack of cooperation is not a sign of conspiracy. It's just business as normal.

Once again, the conspiracy theory perspective is suffering from not knowing how things really work and is clinging to sparse low quality "evidence" and then doing a lot of creative coloring.

I think you will find this interview with a former CIA guy interesting and informative. After a few minutes of introductions, the interview jumps right into a long discussion of human trafficking.



Ex-CIA Agent Reveals How to End Human Trafficking - YouTube
 
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How are we ever to bring NEW things or talk about NEW things for Alex if the only topics are the shows themselves?


Hey maybe you know the answer to my burning question. Do you know how Sam Parnia inferred the timing during the 2014 aware study? I mean specifically how he inferred the timing of the veridical awareness of one patient.

And yes, we need at least one other forum besides the shows.

I can't think of a more important question to ask because its answer is the reason mainstream scientists dont care about this topic.
 
Because there's no other place to put this and t'is the season... I give you It's a Wonderful Life.
A Hollywood Christmas card to old-time America. An era when Roosevelt reminded us that social works, communitarianism and small "c" capitalism was what makes good and healthy societies.
Deficit spending too!
https://www.thestranger.com/slog/20...rful-life-is-deficits-are-good-for-capitalism

Forget about globalists in the shadows for a moment. You want to do something to REALLY make the world a better place?
Remove corporations.
Stop allowing them to consolidate
Prevent them from buying up and jacking up the residential housings
And support social credit institutions, and better pay and unions.
Demand good government from your local, state and representatives and get rid of the lobbyists.
Bring in the things that make a community healthy and sound.
But hey, if you believe in the FBI you probably hate the movie already
https://jacobinmag.com/2021/12/its-a-wonderful-life-fbi-hoover-red-scare-communism

AND MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ONE AND ALL.
Oh, and here's me guesting in another podcast - The Department of Nerdly Affairs where we talk about "Gatekeepers". Loads of fun!
http://obeythedna.com/podcast/dna-podcast-128-who-gates-the-gatekeepers/
J
 
Forget about globalists in the shadows for a moment. You want to do something to REALLY make the world a better place?
Remove corporations.
Stop allowing them to consolidate
Prevent them from buying up and jacking up the residential housings
And support social credit institutions, and better pay and unions.
Demand good government from your local, state and representatives and get rid of the lobbyists.
Bring in the things that make a community healthy and sound.

For a large part of today I was thinking through an idea which I think would solve all these within Capitalism, as an improvement (or a resolution) of Capitalism. Two disclaimers: 1- I don't claim it's an original idea, 2- I haven't given any thought to how it would be rolled out or the correct scale.

The idea is a Global agreement that:
No person, or Corporation be allowed to hold 10,000x that of the determined poverty level for an individual.

Again, I'm not sure on roll out, or whether 100,000x, or 1mil-x would be more realistic..
Point being, that this incentivizes the 1% to increase raise the poverty level in order to be allowed to amass more wealth within Capitalism. And they would be forced to focus on the poorest societies first.
 
For a large part of today I was thinking through an idea which I think would solve all these within Capitalism, as an improvement (or a resolution) of Capitalism. Two disclaimers: 1- I don't claim it's an original idea, 2- I haven't given any thought to how it would be rolled out or the correct scale.

The idea is a Global agreement that:
No person, or Corporation be allowed to hold 10,000x that of the determined poverty level for an individual.

Again, I'm not sure on roll out, or whether 100,000x, or 1mil-x would be more realistic..
Point being, that this incentivizes the 1% to increase raise the poverty level in order to be allowed to amass more wealth within Capitalism. And they would be forced to focus on the poorest societies first.

I think that would be an improvement on even Eisenhauer's 90% tax rate of millionaires.
Of course, every politician says its all okay if we just get rid of the ways they can skirt taxes. Republicans always talk big about a flat tax, but you never see it happening. Democrats don't even want to talk about it because they enjoy the cuts.
 
Satan or Jesus. Most people can only follow Satan. Sadly very few souls know anything about the Real Jesus. There is very little information in the Bible like what He really taught.
The missing truth about Christmas and Jesus. Can you deal with it? Part two.

 
Satan or Jesus. Most people can only follow Satan. Sadly very few souls know anything about the Real Jesus. There is very little information in the Bible like what He really taught.
The missing truth about Christmas and Jesus. Can you deal with it? Part two.


I'm with Alex on this. Lots of evidence for "Christ Consciousness" not so much for the religion of Christianity.
 
FULL RETARD. Even better.
BS on Aquino. How shilly.
New Douglas Dietrich book with Peter Moon from Sky Books only gets into Roswell and WW2. Future book will touch on this DIRECTLY, because DD was there. Maybe you could get him on as a follow up to this.
What a joke. Defending that guy. He gets quite testy.
Plus his lisp isn't as sexy as Bella's. Apologies to anyone with speech impediments out there.
It really is sexy, what with the tone of her voice and all.
OMG!!! HE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THE GUY! His defense is completely baseless. Same as any group, he's generalizing that all Satanists are the same?! I really don't get his defending that turd.
I was friends with him for awhile. Until I started seeing through his lies. I know much more about what really went down with Tesla working with a alien race then ever will . What the Gov actually did in NJ during that whole time Mr Moon spent his time in another country getting his so called info for his books. . Tommy Hawksblood
 
I was friends with him for awhile. Until I started seeing through his lies. I know much more about what really went down with Tesla working with a alien race then ever will . What the Gov actually did in NJ during that whole time Mr Moon spent his time in another country getting his so called info for his books. . Tommy Hawksblood
Do share!
Oh, your show up there...
I don't spend much time here anymore.
Oh yeah, those people you're talking about up there had little to nothing to do with the middle east. Only 1000 years ago.
 
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Because there's no other place to put this and t'is the season... I give you It's a Wonderful Life.
A Hollywood Christmas card to old-time America. An era when Roosevelt reminded us that social works, communitarianism and small "c" capitalism was what makes good and healthy societies.
Deficit spending too!
https://www.thestranger.com/slog/20...rful-life-is-deficits-are-good-for-capitalism

Forget about globalists in the shadows for a moment. You want to do something to REALLY make the world a better place?
Remove corporations.
Stop allowing them to consolidate
Prevent them from buying up and jacking up the residential housings
And support social credit institutions, and better pay and unions.
Demand good government from your local, state and representatives and get rid of the lobbyists.
Bring in the things that make a community healthy and sound.
But hey, if you believe in the FBI you probably hate the movie already
https://jacobinmag.com/2021/12/its-a-wonderful-life-fbi-hoover-red-scare-communism

AND MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ONE AND ALL.
Oh, and here's me guesting in another podcast - The Department of Nerdly Affairs where we talk about "Gatekeepers". Loads of fun!
http://obeythedna.com/podcast/dna-podcast-128-who-gates-the-gatekeepers/
J
How Organized Crime Runs the "Gov't" and Media
https://government-scam.com/
Merry Christmas.
 
I'm with Alex on this. Lots of evidence for "Christ Consciousness" not so much for the religion of Christianity.

I don't get this "Christ Consciousness" thing. What are we going to have, a "consciousness" for every type of historical figure when we are confused or or opposed to who that historical figure actually is? Jesus was actually some guy doing unusual shit, a sham, or he didn't exist! What else am I suppose to believe in: Bill Clinton Consciousness?

Hold on everybody, we don't agree with everything Bill Clinton did, but Bill Clinton Consciousness must be considered! You know, the saxophone guy running to McDonald's? What about Trump Consciousness? Wasn't he the cool reality TV guy? I agree with that kind of "consciousness."
 
I don't get this "Christ Consciousness" thing. What are we going to have, a "consciousness" for every type of historical figure when we are confused or or opposed to who that historical figure actually is? Jesus was actually some guy doing unusual shit, a sham, or he didn't exist! What else am I suppose to believe in: Bill Clinton Consciousness?

Hold on everybody, we don't agree with everything Bill Clinton did, but Bill Clinton Consciousness must be considered! You know, the saxophone guy running to McDonald's? What about Trump Consciousness? Wasn't he the cool reality TV guy? I agree with that kind of "consciousness."

This excellent retort can be used to bring us to what might be better question about the veracity of Christianity than the best one currently being asked most often.

The best/simplest explanation of Christ Consciousness I can give would be: THE spirit of Unconditional Positive Regard existing on Earth.

Currently, people ask Was Christ a real person or not, God or not, Resurrected or not?, which seem to remain a dead end until we invent a time machine.
Perhaps a better question is "Did Christ Consciousness exist on earth before the time of Jesus?" According to Christianity, Jesus' spirit (Christ Consciousness) came to Earth when he was baptized and remained here after he died.
I think this gets to the issue a lot better.

One of Alex's main points especially in the Josephus debates is:
William Ramsey, Lawyering Christianity |497|
"The part of that history that I don’t understand that Christians don’t get is that we’re all living, rich, complicated, spiritual lives. And they show up all over the place for Damien Echols from West Memphis three. We don’t know what his deal is but we know he has a rich spiritual life and he’s trying to connect with Alistair Crowley and demons and this and that, but he probably is also waking up at two o’clock in the morning going, Oh my God you know, what does this do to my soul?"

My question which I'm posing here (I guess on behalf of Christianity) is Did the "Christ Consciousness"-Unconditional-Positive-Regard spiritual component exist within Men on Earth before Jesus lived?
 
I don't get this "Christ Consciousness" thing. What are we going to have, a "consciousness" for every type of historical figure when we are confused or or opposed to who that historical figure actually is? Jesus was actually some guy doing unusual shit, a sham, or he didn't exist! What else am I suppose to believe in: Bill Clinton Consciousness?

Hold on everybody, we don't agree with everything Bill Clinton did, but Bill Clinton Consciousness must be considered! You know, the saxophone guy running to McDonald's? What about Trump Consciousness? Wasn't he the cool reality TV guy? I agree with that kind of "consciousness."

yeah, but this appears to be our best estimation/explanation of reality/non-reality:



Dr. Doug Matzke, Is AI Evil? |520| - Skeptiko

Riz Virk, Computer Science Eats Science |524| - Skeptiko

we are not conscious we are in consciousness -- bernardo kastrup
 
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