The Donald Trump Thread

I think a Latino VP may alienate some of his followers if the person selected doesn't have a hard record against illegal immigration.

But Trump supporters shouldn't worry as from what I've seen the Democrats are hard at work to lose the election by nominating one of the most unlikable candidates in history who might be indicted by the FBI before the election season is over.
 
I'm honestly a little surprised, Hurm, that your buying his BS. Or any of this election 2016 BS, TBH. This thing is more rigged than a backwater carnival game.

Let's see, you've got a criminal who should have been incarcerated many times over, but luckily, she's got friends in high places. Or a corporatist that would sell (and I think has) his own daughter if it would make him a buck, and a socialist that doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of actually getting elected. And EVEN IF he did, his policies would never be put in place. Ever. He'd be killed first. Or the nation would. OTOH, the powers that be are certainly doing their damndest to make that a reality.

Regardless, you don't need to be a conspiracy nut to know that the President has very little real power. Kissinger is just the tip of the iceberg of how truly messed up politics are, not just here in the US, but globally.
 
I'm honestly a little surprised, Hurm, that your buying his BS. Or any of this election 2016 BS, TBH. This thing is more rigged than a backwater carnival game.

Let's see, you've got a criminal who should have been incarcerated many times over, but luckily, she's got friends in high places. Or a corporatist that would sell (and I think has) his own daughter if it would make him a buck, and a socialist that doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of actually getting elected. And EVEN IF he did, his policies would never be put in place. Ever. He'd be killed first. Or the nation would. OTOH, the powers that be are certainly doing their damndest to make that a reality.

Regardless, you don't need to be a conspiracy nut to know that the President has very little real power. Kissinger is just the tip of the iceberg of how truly messed up politics are, not just here in the US, but globally.

I'm with you on Hitlery and Mao Tse Bern. I think Trump is a legit constitutionalist nationalist. I used to think the president had no real power and for the last few decades the president has merely been a actor or puppet so he didn't exercise any power of his own. I don't think anyone pulls Trump's strings. The presidency is still the biggest bully pulpit in the world and in the race so far, Trump was shifted the dialogue dramatically away from the typical controlled left/right paradigm. He is the only one who doesn't want to start WWIII and who does want to protect American industry, free speech, and gun rights. He doesn't pretend to be on a religious high horse. One of his best friends, Oliver Stone directed a movie investigating the Kennedy assassination and Stone claims that Trump is well aware of the deep state and conspiracy that has usurped control over the US... Which is why Trump isn't afraid to talk about alternative aspects of 9/11, vaccines, Benghazi, the fact that we and the Saudi's created ISIS, etc. Trump is the libertarian conspiracy theorist's candidate. The Paul's used to fill that place but were too ideological and abstract in their rhetoric so could only appeal to the more intellectual libertarians. Trump has studied media and persuasion for decades and has tuned his message for wider popular appeal... So it is a more dumbed down than the Paul's message but essentially not much different.

What are your specific objections to Trump? Despite all their efforts the media hasn't really been able to dig up any dirt on him. The NYT recently tried a hit piece but one of the main sources, a former girlfriend of Trump's came out the next day saying the NYT lied and distorted many things and that she has very positive opinion of him.
 
The presidency may be one of the worlds biggest bully pulpits, however, I do not believe for one second that the words he speaks are his own. Bully puppet might be the more accurate term here. And if Trump is so anti-deep state, then why the meeting with Kissinger? Kissinger is the rotten mouth piece for the shadow state, and I highly doubt it was for "diplomatic" reasons.

My main reason for disliking Trump (besides the words he chooses to use, his extreme flip flopping when expedient and his downright asinine policy ideas) is something 100% unscientific, and that is my intuition.

The moment I found out he was running for office, I "knew" it was a joke. Not in the sense that Trump himself was just trying to pull a funny, more like the powers that be were quite literally playing a joke on all of us. Like, "let's see how far we can push it".

This election cycle has gone far beyond the typical dog and pony show. Trump is the unicorn. I think (and this may be overly-optimistic) that more and more people were catching on to the idea that elections are all theater. So they had to up the ante, so to speak. Introduce a unicorn to the typical dog and pony show. And it worked like a charm. Maybe too well. Maybe that is what the Kissinger meeting was all about. It moved from joke to real possibility. Don't be surprised to see him start moderating his extremism. And if he is elected (God forbid), he will fall right in line.

As it is, I think Hillary was the shoe in from the get go. She should be indicted and facing prison for treason, but she won't be. It just so happens a good pal of hers was just nominated to be attorney general. The problem is, people HATE her. Not dislike, not "get annoyed by", HATE. That's a problem. You can only massage the statistics to a point without giving up the jig. So, yeah, I'm not really sure what is going to happen, but it won't be revolutionary, it won't change a damn thing. Hillary, Trump, Sanders, Godzilla or Justin Bieber, it doesn't matter. We could elect a potato and it would be business as usual.

But, I'm a cynic when it comes politics and society. I've always sat on the outskirts, never really wanting to be a part of any of it, so take what I have to say however you wish.

One of my favorite quotes:
"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti
 
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The presidency may be one of the worlds biggest bully pulpits, however, I do not believe for one second that the words he speaks are his own. Bully puppet might be the more accurate term here. And if Trump is so anti-deep state, then why the meeting with Kissinger? Kissinger is the rotten mouth piece for the shadow state, and I highly doubt it was for "diplomatic" reasons.

My main reason for disliking Trump (besides the words he chooses to use, his extreme flip flopping when expedient and his downright asinine policy ideas) is something 100% unscientific, and that is my intuition.

The moment I found out he was running for office, I "knew" it was a joke. Not in the sense that Trump himself was just trying to pull a funny, more like the powers that be were quite literally playing a joke on all of us. Like, "let's see how far we can push it".

This election cycle has gone far beyond the typical dog and pony show. Trump is the unicorn. I think (and this may be overly-optimistic) that more and more people were catching on to the idea that elections are all theater. So they had to up the ante, so to speak. Introduce a unicorn to the typical dog and pony show. And it worked like a charm. Maybe too well. Maybe that is what the Kissinger meeting was all about. It moved from joke to real possibility. Don't be surprised to see him start moderating his extremism. And if he is elected (God forbid), he will fall right in line.

As it is, I think Hillary was the shoe in from the get go. She should be indicted and facing prison for treason, but she won't be. It just so happens a good pal of hers was just nominated to be attorney general. The problem is, people HATE her. Not dislike, not "get annoyed by", HATE. That's a problem. You can only massage the statistics to a point without giving up the jig. So, yeah, I'm not really sure what is going to happen, but it won't be revolutionary, it won't change a damn thing. Hillary, Trump, Sanders, Godzilla or Justin Bieber, it doesn't matter. We could elect a potato and it would be business as usual.

But, I'm a cynic when it comes politics and society. I've always sat on the outskirts, never really wanting to be a part of any of it, so take what I have to say however you wish.

One of my favorite quotes:
"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

By the way, glad you're back again :)

If Trump is a puppet of the establishment, why is he saying so many things that are destructive to the carefully constructed narratives of the establishment and why has the establishment launched such a grand effort to denigrate him?

Why is Trump meeting with mass murderer Kissinger? Probably because he still has a lot of power. As president, one has to meet with the scum of the earth on a regular basis. I don't expect his foreign policy to change after a meeting with the beast but if it did I would criticize him for it and lose respect for him.

I don't see a lot of flip flopping. I've seen Trump truthfully say that he changed his mind on some things after he learned more about them. You don't see many politicians admit to having the need to learn anything. Hillary in the above video was shown to be against gay marriage for years and then all of a sudden decided to act like she was never against it.

Regarding policy the only things he's said that I've disagreed with is on torture and on building a literal physical wall. He's been remarkably consistent on foreign and economic policy statements over the decades. He was against the Iraq war from the very beginning. He's said what Hillary did in Libya was a mistake and that we are destabilizing the Middle East and that we along with the Saudis created ISIS. He wants good relations with Russia while the rest of the candidates want to start a war. He has stated the obvious: that the US economy is on the verge of a meltdown and that we have a serious debt and monetary problem.

If he starts moderating and falling in line with the establishment I will revoke my support. Every candidate since HW Bush has promised to bring the troops home and stop being the world's police force, but that always changes when they get in office because every president from HW on has been a CIA plant. I don't think Trump is CIA. If he is, he's the best damn actor I've ever seen and so is Oliver Stone.

I'm going to beat my favorite dead horse again, but authority comes from an author of a story. It doesn't matter how big and grand and deep the deep state runs or how wealthy the elite are, all it takes to defeat them is someone telling a better story in a better way than they are. Trump is doing that, and he might get killed for it, but ideas are bulletproof. Personally, I wish an author with a >4th grade vocabulary was in Trump's place but with all the fluoride and GMO and TV out there the public doesn't have the brainpower to understand a >4th grade vocabulary so that's where we are.
 
Why is Trump meeting with mass murderer Kissinger? Probably because he still has a lot of power. As president, one has to meet with the scum of the earth on a regular basis. I don't expect his foreign policy to change after a meeting with the beast but if it did I would criticize him for it and lose respect for him.
Once you begin to see through what has happened over the decades, a whole load of US politicians (plus some British ones) are mass murderers. I think Obama started out on a different course, but then just seemed to lose his determination. The 'reset' with Russia was great news for everyone except the arms manufacturers. He must know the real truth about the Ukraine (and indeed Georgia just prior to his time in office), and yet he lets the charade of attacking and insulting the president of Russia continue. He is also implicated in the mess in Libya - so he tried to tip all the blame on his co-conspirator, Cameron.

I just hope that the attempts to restart the cold war with Russia have been just a bit too blatant. When I talk to people, a lot of them get the fact that destabilising the Ukrainian government to create the conditions for a coup was crazy.

Whatever value NATO may or may not have had in the cold war era, Europe would be much safer now without it.

I agree, I'd like him to talk in a more sophisticated way, but unfortunately, when politicians do that, they usually do it conceal the truth!

David
 
By the way, glad you're back again :)
Thanks!

If Trump is a puppet of the establishment, why is he saying so many things that are destructive to the carefully constructed narratives of the establishment and why has the establishment launched such a grand effort to denigrate him?
Maybe it's sort of Meta. The elite, self referencing the elite, in a derogatory way from a unpalatable source (to many) in a childish, inflammatory way. Almost like, if it IS coming from Trumps mouth, it's almost assured to be 100% BS or hyperbole. At least, that's how they may have expected most people to see it (and many do). What better way to discredit these ideas than to have a bloviating gasbag who would seemingly be willing to say or do anything for power.

Look at what he's famous for. He's always saying ridiculous things like "my golf course is going to be the greenest, bestest, most opulent golf course anyone's ever seen" or "my hotel is going to be the most awesome hotel anyone's ever seen". Let us not forget Trump Steaks, that were supposed to be "the best steaks anyone's ever tasted".

Most of his endeavors fail or do not come anywhere close to living up to the hype he gives them. Most people see him as dishonest, egotistical, rude and just downright silly. Shit, even his hair is a joke.

I don't think anyone, elite or not, ever REALLY expected anyone (save for a few "wackos") to take him seriously.

His main accomplishment this cycle has been to divide the anti-establishment crowd.

He's too extreme for ANY progressive and even for many conservatives. He will not get a single dem vote. He likely would not get all the conservative vote, and he's fractured the independent/libertarian segment. And perhaps that's what he was supposed to do.

This "live free or die" was gaining traction, possibly in a large part due to everything that's happened since the 2008 corporate socialist bailout (i.e. Wealth gap increase, job loss, erosion of labor unions, the failure of Obama to bring "change", the military-industrial complex most Americans are against, constant intervention in the ME that most Americans are against, etc. etc.). What better way to nip this thing in the bud than to divide those who are feeling disenfranchised, fed-up and have lost so much or enough that they are willing to risk fighting for a revolution?

Dividing the nation according to the two party line has been incredibly successful thus far. But I would argue that there has never been such a dearth in qualified candidates in a long time, maybe ever. Every republican in the running was a joke. Hillary is a criminal and even many of her own "party" won't vote for her. Bernie has a very loyal following, but that seems to only have succeeded at dividing the progressives and captured some independents. He will never get a conservative vote, nor will Hillary. I would be shocked out of my skin if Bernie got the nom. And while many progressives hate Hillary, those same people will then vote for her, if not only to ensure Trump doesn't get in. So, you divide the cons/ind/libertarians, enough to ensure there is enough disagreement to ensure he doesn't get elected. And they had to do that to make it look plausible that Hillary gets elected. She cannot carry enough votes on her own, so they had to divide the cons/ind/lib vote, the most ardent Bernie supporters will sit the election out, a little voting fraud/data massaging and voila! Hillary becomes our first female president (first a black man, now a woman?! We really have come a long way, baby!)

Hillary has been practically elected already according to our media, which as we've seen, shit in the media has a scary way of actually determining future realities (more proof, IMHO, of just how much this whole thing has been manufactured).

Like I said before, though, it really doesn't matter. What I find most poignant is the fact that Trump v Hillary is really what it has come to. Our government is so non-functional, so incredibly bought and paid for and devoid of all real power that I hold very little hope for this country at all. I pray with all my might that a bloody revolution doesn't occur. But the more this charade continues, the worse things get, I don't see it changing any other way. Trump is no savior. There isn't one, there isn't going to be one.

This will go on until enough people have lost enough to lose their hope and are ready to lose everything because they have nothing more to lose anyway.

History is cyclical. Empires are born, they grow, they go through a golden age, then they lose site of everything they once stood for. Greed and power corrupt, and finally the empire falls by destroying itself from the inside out. The prols revolt because death suddenly looks better than life, and this is when rulers start losing their heads. We aren't there, yet. I give it another 30-50 years, maybe, if things continue the way they are.
 
Almost like, if it IS coming from Trumps mouth, it's almost assured to be 100% BS or hyperbole. At least, that's how they may have expected most people to see it (and many do). What better way to discredit these ideas than to have a bloviating gasbag who would seemingly be willing to say or do anything for power.

So you're not a fan of Trump then? :)

Look at what he's famous for. He's always saying ridiculous things like "my golf course is going to be the greenest, bestest, most opulent golf course anyone's ever seen" or "my hotel is going to be the most awesome hotel anyone's ever seen". Let us not forget Trump Steaks, that were supposed to be "the best steaks anyone's ever tasted".

I look at this as sort of an innocent boyish desire to make something really cool.... "My lego spaceship is the biggest fastest most bestest in the multiverse!" ...and Trump is tired of Big Brother's bullying and getting pushed around by the other nations.

Most of his endeavors fail or do not come anywhere close to living up to the hype he gives them.

I don't know how you would judge that... especially when the media's primary source is: "some people say..."

Most people see him as dishonest, egotistical, rude and just downright silly. Shit, even his hair is a joke.

And most people don't know... one part of their body from a hole in the ground... and their perceptions are entirely shaped by the media screaming "racist!" and the buzz in their content ghettos of social media. I've heard a number of people who knew Trump on a personal level say he's a kind generous gentleman. So who really knows? I think his loose cannon is far more honest than any teleprompter reader.

His main accomplishment this cycle has been to divide the anti-establishment crowd.

But he drew record numbers of participation in the primaries...

He will not get a single dem vote.

And also in some areas record numbers of democrats changing parties to vote for him...

He likely would not get all the conservative vote, and he's fractured the independent/libertarian segment. And perhaps that's what he was supposed to do.

Anyone who states an opinion will divide people but we have to look at voter turnout in the primaries... it was Yuuuge! Tremendous! Big!

This "live free or die" was gaining traction, possibly in a large part due to everything that's happened since the 2008 corporate socialist bailout (i.e. Wealth gap increase, job loss, erosion of labor unions, the failure of Obama to bring "change", the military-industrial complex most Americans are against, constant intervention in the ME that most Americans are against, etc. etc.). What better way to nip this thing in the bud than to divide those who are feeling disenfranchised, fed-up and have lost so much or enough that they are willing to risk fighting for a revolution?

I see people coming together on a number of issues: the media is controlled and cannot be trusted, the establishment is corrupt, and we need to stop meddling in Middle East and stop poking the Bear. We need to do something quickly to bring industry back into the US. And we know we're being sold out with all these trade deals worked out in secret.

Dividing the nation according to the two party line has been incredibly successful thus far. But I would argue that there has never been such a dearth in qualified candidates in a long time, maybe ever. Every republican in the running was a joke. Hillary is a criminal and even many of her own "party" won't vote for her. Bernie has a very loyal following, but that seems to only have succeeded at dividing the progressives and captured some independents. He will never get a conservative vote, nor will Hillary. I would be shocked out of my skin if Bernie got the nom. And while many progressives hate Hillary, those same people will then vote for her, if not only to ensure Trump doesn't get in. So, you divide the cons/ind/libertarians, enough to ensure there is enough disagreement to ensure he doesn't get elected. And they had to do that to make it look plausible that Hillary gets elected. She cannot carry enough votes on her own, so they had to divide the cons/ind/lib vote, the most ardent Bernie supporters will sit the election out, a little voting fraud/data massaging and voila! Hillary becomes our first female president (first a black man, now a woman?! We really have come a long way, baby!)

Trump will eviscerate Hillary in a debate. I can't wait to see it. He's already talked about her Benghazi lies, her creation of ISIS, the fiasco she created in the Ukraine, her rapist husband, and the necessity of her imprisonment.

I pray with all my might that a bloody revolution doesn't occur. But the more this charade continues, the worse things get, I don't see it changing any other way. Trump is no savior. There isn't one, there isn't going to be one.

Believe me I know no single person is a savior, but there are a multitude of battles in the animating contest of liberty and Trump is just one salvo. Perhaps he is the "last Trump" heralding the end of the nation and its hegemony. I think a severe and terrible economic collapse is primed and ready to go at any moment as the system is now entirely held together through manipulation of markets. The establishment wants a big war as well. Instead of 2016 it is as if we are in 1916 Russia with young stupid Marxists starting riots. Many people believe the plan is to pull the plug (perhaps literally with a power grid down scenario), let all the factions fight it out for a few years and then mop up with a newly formed revolutionary government. I think that would be a mistake for the elites though as there are so many preppers and gun owners here, that might actually reset the nation on a more independent and liberty minded course.

This will go on until enough people have lost enough to lose their hope and are ready to lose everything because they have nothing more to lose anyway. History is cyclical. Empires are born, they grow, they go through a golden age, then they lose site of everything they once stood for. Greed and power corrupt, and finally the empire falls by destroying itself from the inside out. The prols revolt because death suddenly looks better than life, and this is when rulers start losing their heads. We aren't there, yet. I give it another 30-50 years, maybe, if things continue the way they are.

I mostly agree though I think we are much closer than 30-50 years. We are always only 9 meals away from anarchy.
 
some areas record numbers of democrats changing parties to vote for him...
Really? I haven't heard anything about that. Hm...

opinion will divide people but we have to look at voter turnout in the primaries... it was Yuuuge! Tremendous! Big!
Lol, I see what you did there ;)

Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe my gut feeling is wrong. I have at times made some wrong assumptions, but I've also learned to trust these feelings when I get them. And I just cannot escape the feeling that this is all a set up. Trump, Hillary, Bernie, all of it. While a Trump v. Hillary debate might be entertaining, my gut tells me that's the point. It might look like he eviscerates her, or vice versa, but that's precisely what your supposed to think. I don't trust any of it. This transcends cynicism. We literally cannot trust our own eyes any more. The ability to decieve through manipulation of the once irrefutable "video evidence" means we cannot trust our 5 senses, and must find a way to go beyond. Not only is our ability to perceive beyond the physical senses important, it's becoming absolutely essential.

When you cannot believe what your eyes see, what your ears hear, what your fingers touch or your nose smells, what can we believe?

Time will tell how this all plays out. But my money is on Hillary. But like I said earlier, a potato would be just as meaningful.
 
And I just cannot escape the feeling that this is all a set up. Trump, Hillary, Bernie, all of it. While a Trump v. Hillary debate might be entertaining, my gut tells me that's the point. It might look like he eviscerates her, or vice versa, but that's precisely what your supposed to think. I don't trust any of it.
Do you mean that you don't trust the honesty of the electoral process - I do wonder, myself.

Regarding Trump's way of communicating. I can't help remembering Obama's "Yes we can!" repeated over and over again. There is something mind numbing about the whole electoral process (in the UK too).

What excites me about Trump, is that he might come to a settlement with Russia and pull out of policing the world. I think that would be a vast step in the right direction. I also think he will push for the idea that every country in the world is a homeland for their own people - including the USA - and that we should organise more around that idea rather than the idea that everyone should be on the move. I think he is right when he implies that we in the West simply do not understand the Islamic world - so at the moment we invite them to come here, and just expect them to become like us, or to live happily alongside us.

I would argue that that vision would really be a lot more compassionate than what we are doing now.

David
 
I get how DT is appealing on a very gut level lizard brain sort of way against the so called establishment career crooks. What I don't get is that a big part of that establishment disdain is because we all know these politicians lie with their style of highly polished speech that is couched in all sorts of doublespeak gobbledygook. However, DT blatantly....BLATANTLY... just makes things up out of thin air that are also idiotically ignorant and shallow.... yet this guy is supposed to be some sort of remedy for the establishment?? It's just mind boggling. :eek:
 
I get how DT is appealing on a very gut level lizard brain sort of way against the so called establishment career crooks. What I don't get is that a big part of that establishment disdain is because we all know these politicians lie with their style of highly polished speech that is couched in all sorts of doublespeak gobbledygook. However, DT blatantly....BLATANTLY... just makes things up out of thin air that are also idiotically ignorant and shallow.... yet this guy is supposed to be some sort of remedy for the establishment?? It's just mind boggling. :eek:

Okay when he said that he reads the Bible all the time and suggested the IRS audits him every single year because of his sincerely held Christian beliefs... yeah he made that up out of thin air. But that earned points with me anyway because it shows he knows about and is willing to talk about the IRS's abuses of power in selectively auditing conservative and Christian groups.

What other blatantly made up statements are you referring to?
 
But that earned points with me anyway because it shows he knows about and is willing to talk about the IRS's abuses of power in selectively auditing conservative and Christian groups.

Really? That's your litmus test?

As for the other thing.... you're joking right? :D
 
Really? That's your litmus test?

As for the other thing.... you're joking right? :D

That's not my litmus test.. Just said it earned a few points.

Well earlier someone said that DT was blatantly racist. I disagree. So I'm wondering how much of your list of blatantly false statements are a matter of interpretation.
 
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That's not my litmus test.. Just said it earned a few points.

Well earlier someone said that DT was blatantly racist. I disagree. So I'm wondering how much of your list of blatantly false statements are a matter of interpretation.


See, look... here's the thing.... you're obviously stuck on the guy. I'm not going to waste my time playing a game of searching for everything he's done to prove my point because it will not satisfy you anyway. However, try and realize....he's just a narcissistic blowhard who pretty much does nothing but talk about himself, promote the trump brand, is a 'reality' show celebrity and appears to do nothing else but license his name on stuff and sue people. If daddy wasn't rich he'd be hanging off the back of a garbage truck for a living. :D

He's exactly like those people hawking their books and seminars on the motivational circuit. They don't make their money by actually applying the things they preach for others to do, but rather it's from knowing that people will buy into the form of snake oil they sell because people think it'll elevate them from their mundane lives.
He's a true carny. He's a Brand... that's how he makes money. Oh yeah, he does own real estate, so sure, Paris Hilton would make a great running mate. ;;/?
 
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