Mod+ 228. Mary Rodwell Advocates for Alien Contactees

#41
Unfortunately, I'm still stuck on "is this really happening?"

Years ago I had friends who thought that it was only how we perceived alien abductions that made them negative. This seemed ridiculous to me. So someone kidnaps you and then does invasive surgeries and that's benign? A friend of mine used to tell a joke in which an alien abducts you, gets you on the table, inserts an anal probe, and then says, "Can I talk to you about Amway?"

The fact is, though, I just don't know enough and shouldn't be closed to Rodwell's position. I really appreciated what Alex said about NDEs, how it's patently obvious that they are loving--I had been thinking that all through the show. Yet there is parallel to Rodwell's position even there. NDE researcher Kenneth Ring wrote a 1994 article in the Journal of Near-Death Studies titled, “Solving the Riddle of Frightening Near-Death Experiences: Some Testable Hypotheses and a Perspective Based on A Course in Miracles.” There, he attempted to explain "inverted" NDEs--experiences that contained the classical elements but are pervaded by fear--as a fear reaction to a naturally pleasurable experience:

"If you are still clinging to your little island of make-believe, your ego, when you enter into death, you will experience its own fear, perhaps to the point of terror. If you can let go, however…you will find yourself one with the Infinite Light of Life."

As the last part of the quote says, if someone can let go of their egoic attachments in an "inverted" NDE, the experience will then "convert" back to the more typical pleasurable NDE.

On the other hand, I know a man who had abduction experiences from a young age. Then, when an abduction episode began to unfold after many years of nothing, he found himself shouting out "I am of the family of Jesus Christ!" This surprised him as it was not his language nor the way he thought about things. However, the experience immediately stopped and never happened again. Whatever the truth is, he himself clearly saw the abductors not as his real family, but as acting contrary to the family of Jesus of which he's part.
Thanks for these comments. I am really over the - if you had a negative NDE then you must have done something wrong - type view. From my own experience and from the experience of many "light workers" I know (to use the New Age vernacular), having experienced moments of utter terror as well as "the bliss" is the norm. I don't for a minute think its an artifact of our psychology. If we are ultimately to come to an understanding of these phenomena we can't start from a "wish list" of possible scenarios to explain them. Yes, its true that you can reconcile the experience but that doesn't make it go away. The theological predisposition of us culturally and innately needs to be understood. We all want to believe in the good guys, the beings of light. But the models need to take account of the fact that most of us have encountered bad stuff too. I don't have a model yet but I know both the darkness and the light have been my teachers. I consider them both as being part of the duality of existence.

Jules
 
#43
I think we all start there... don't know if you'll get past your starting point but I would recommend the Travis Walton case as a starter... and John Mack.
Just don't research theTravis Walton case via the movie "Fire in the Sky", hehe. Great movie, but man, it distorts his story quite a bit!
 
C

chuck.drake

#47
I think we all start there... don't know if you'll get past your starting point but I would recommend the Travis Walton case as a starter... and John Mack.
Or have a listen to the whole catalog of podcasts at http://hiddenexperience.blogspot.com. You have to be careful with this material not to shut down when you hear stuff that goes past your "crazy line." Not that you have to accept anything, but if you start shutting down, you will miss things.
 
#49
Unfortunately, I'm still stuck on "is this really happening?" I am inclined to think it is, but just don't know enough yet.

Years ago I had friends who thought that it was only how we perceived alien abductions that made them negative. This seemed ridiculous to me. So someone kidnaps you and then does invasive surgeries and that's benign? A friend of mine used to tell a joke in which an alien abducts you, gets you on the table, inserts an anal probe, and then says, "Can I talk to you about Amway?"

The fact is, though, I just don't know enough and shouldn't be closed to Rodwell's position. I really appreciated what Alex said about NDEs, how it's patently obvious that they are loving--I had been thinking that all through the show. Yet there is parallel to Rodwell's position even there. NDE researcher Kenneth Ring wrote a 1994 article in the Journal of Near-Death Studies titled, “Solving the Riddle of Frightening Near-Death Experiences: Some Testable Hypotheses and a Perspective Based on A Course in Miracles.” There, he attempted to explain "inverted" NDEs--experiences that contained the classical elements but are pervaded by fear--as a fear reaction to a naturally pleasurable experience:

"If you are still clinging to your little island of make-believe, your ego, when you enter into death, you will experience its own fear, perhaps to the point of terror. If you can let go, however…you will find yourself one with the Infinite Light of Life."

As the last part of the quote says, if someone can let go of their egoic attachments in an "inverted" NDE, the experience will then "convert" back to the more typical pleasurable NDE.

On the other hand, I know a man who had abduction experiences from a young age. Then, when an abduction episode began to unfold after many years of nothing, he found himself shouting out "I am of the family of Jesus Christ!" This surprised him as it was not his language nor the way he thought about things. However, the experience immediately stopped and never happened again. Whatever the truth is, he himself clearly saw the abductors not as his real family, but as acting contrary to the family of Jesus of which he's part.

On another front, don't we agree to everything on a soul level before entering this life? If so, then we also agreed to military abductions (if they in fact happen) and by Rodwell's reasoning should view them as benign, right?

I look forward to the future podcast that involves both sides. Rodwell, while very likable, didn't quite manage to gain my trust. While I take my own "resonance" with truth seriously, surely it also exists in relationship with (and accountability to) other, more objective measures. I also didn't like her repeated emphasis on the other researcher leaving the lunch table. I didn't think that was fair to the other guy. So anyway, I'm hoping future shows can help me make up my mind.
Alex suggested some starting points; let me suggest a couple, too . . . because, of all stuff discussed here, the alien stuff is the hardest to digest.

Pollux posted a video earlier with Mack titled "Experiencers." I watched this a year or so ago; they were posted as a series . . . don't know if the one Pollux posted was the full thing or one in the series like I watched. At any rate, watch the series/whole thing.

Secondly, there are different camps, such as the "nuts and bolts" camp that tend to view it more from a "physical aliens from another place in the universe are visiting us in metal nuts and bolts spacecraft." Then there's one that views it more as a consciousness phenomena . . . then - sorry for being a broke record - there's my favorite view, which I get from Vallee, which says it neither/both/and type thing . . . that there's a trickster element . . . before, it was hard for me to reconcile the documentary "Phoenix Lights" (more nuts and bolts) with the Mack video, Experiencers (more conscious phenomena). They seem totally at odds with one another, ya know? Yet both seem very, very compelling. It's hard to square off. (Sorry for repeating something yet again, though I think it merits it) - to further complicate things for me, Vallee estimated that there was some ridiculous amount of credible UFO/Alien phenomena reported yearly, something like 30,000 reports. It suddenly makes the "physical beings from another place in the universe" theory very unlikely in my book. So, aside from consciousness/trickster interpretations, one could possibly move to inter-dimensional visitation theories. Though personally, I have trouble with this because it's still so elusive: "they" leave just enough in their wake as to taunt, it seems . . . leading me to still think along modern day tricksterism type stuff.

(Sorry, that paragraph went off topic!)

So, secondly, I suggest watching Phoenix Lights, the documentary . . .

Those two things (on top of a Kenneth Ring book) were what initially convinced me to pay more attention and take it seriously.
 
F

Frank Matera

#50
Speaking of Mary Rodwell just last week I happened to watching a documentary about her again... very interesting! The documentary was between her and her son (A Vet surgeon with science background) and the obvious strain her work has on their relationship given he is skeptical. It was about him travelling with her for 2 weeks with her trying to convince him of UFOs and abductions.

What was interesting was that she introduced him to an abductee she had worked with in Australia who had an abduction where he woke up to find a female alien having sex with him. Sounds crazy right? Except that embedded in the head of penis were 2 strands of pubic hair that were literally embedded and were too painfully to remove.

He had them removed and sent to a laboratory for DNA analysis and the results were quite staggering. The DNA had come from one of the most rare species of humans on earth... can't remember where from... but they also aligned with exactly what he stated he saw during the abduction... which was a blonde with very milky white skin. The results of the DNA showed it game from a blonde with extreme white pigmentation... as a result of not needing protection from the sun (Alien on a planet with little sunlight?)

Here is the 10 min excerpt from the documentary where the abductee talks about it.

 
#51
Speaking of Mary Rodwell just last week I happened to watching a documentary about her again... very interesting! The documentary was between her and her son (A Vet surgeon with science background) and the obvious strain her work has on their relationship given he is skeptical. It was about him travelling with her for 2 weeks with her trying to convince him of UFOs and abductions.

What was interesting was that she introduced him to an abductee she had worked with in Australia who had an abduction where he woke up to find a female alien having sex with him. Sounds crazy right? Except that embedded in the head of penis were 2 strands of pubic hair that were literally embedded and were too painfully to remove.

He had them removed and sent to a laboratory for DNA analysis and the results were quite staggering. The DNA had come from one of the most rare species of humans on earth... can't remember where from... but they also aligned with exactly what he stated he saw during the abduction... which was a blonde with very milky white skin. The results of the DNA showed it game from a blonde with extreme white pigmentation... as a result of not needing protection from the sun (Alien on a planet with little sunlight?)

Here is the 10 min excerpt from the documentary where the abductee talks about it.

This is a recurring theme that goes back into fairy abductions - the sexual thing. It's not a new phenomena; just a new form.

But it is super interesting. Thanks for sharing.
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#52
John Mack and the folks he works with get into this a bit. Seems like a common message is that the aliens are "closer to the Source" and they are "less densely embodied than we are". Also, it is definitely the same Source for all of us and one of the main reasons they are visiting is that our activities on Earth actually effect their plane of existence, which may, or may not, actually be in the physical Universe. Sort of like the Global Consciousness Project on steroids. We don't think our negative choices and attitudes effect anything, but according to these theories, they really do in ways that are hard to imagine. There are also some fairly common interepretions where the aliens physically incarnate when they need to, but the physical plane is not really where they're from.

Interestingly enough, the description of these aliens as less embodied is very similar to the descriptions guys like Cayce and Steiner have given about humanity around the earlier times of Atlantis (100,000 BC, I think they would say), if one buys into that at all. I can't remember if Cayce talks about this, but Steiner definitely gets into predictions about humanity being less densely embodied in the future as well, in what sounds like a similar fashion to the reports of these aliens, with also the same psychic powers eventually becoming innate within us.

As far as greater Truths, that seems to come later from folks who have worked through the negative aspects of the experience (if they had any in the first place). The relationship with the aliens changes to something more positive where two-way communications are opened up and "lessons are taught". Anyhow, the message is very similar to the messages that come out of NDEs.

Anyhow, I don't know how much I buy into any of that, but there it is :)
Thanks for this, Ethan. I was surprised to hear John Mack himself (in the discussion video that was posted here of the dialogue with Hopkins) describe it pretty much in the terms in which I asked the question! As I'm reading your post and listening to Mack, I'm left with the question as to whether the Source Truth is ever actually communicated, telepathically or otherwise, from the aliens themselves during the experience as recalled - or if it's always "only" the interpretation of what is happening by the experiencers as they work through the trauma.

A silly question maybe, but one that I'm sure comes to mind to many folks who are new to the topic: why no anesthetic during the procedures? Is there any theory advanced as to why that is? Does it point to these aliens having an intelligence that does not include emotional empathy or something of the sort?

Also, consistent recurring features through the various videos posted here are a) images shown of Earth getting destroyed by its inhabitants, and b) hybrid babies being produced. Is there any theory or, better yet, understanding through contact with the aliens themselves, as to whether these two things are related? I.e. (or e.g.), is a mutant race being prepared in case the Earth gets destroyed so that human-like creatures can be exported to another planet? (A physical planet, and not an ethereal realm, given that these are physical creatures, or I should rather say embodied creatures, being created, and which the aliens are interested in studying.)

Anyhow, I don't know how much I buy into any of that, but there it is :)
Same here :), but I'm open to exploring.

EDIT: The Hopkins-Mack debate video posted above is especially interesting - it's directly related to the line of inquiry Alex is pursuing.

A first reaction: when I hear Hopkins describe aliens as deceitful, he makes good points. But I'm also wondering: when he gives an example of a painful procedure where an alien then puts his hand on the woman's head and she's filled with love and well-being, a thought that comes to mind is: could this also be interpreted as non-deceitful or non-malevolent? This becomes (a little) similar to conservative religious folk viewing blissful NDEs as the work of deceitful demons... (or is it aliens? :eek:).

I can see the vertiginous rabbit hole here...
 
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chuck.drake

#53
Thanks for this, Ethan. I was surprised to hear John Mack himself (in the discussion video that was posted here of the dialogue with Hopkins) describe it pretty much in the terms in which I asked the question! As I'm reading your post and listening to Mack, I'm left with the question as to whether the Source Truth is ever actually communicated, telepathically or otherwise, from the aliens themselves during the experience as recalled - or if it's always "only" the interpretation of what is happening by the experiencers as they work through the trauma.

A silly question maybe, but one that I'm sure comes to mind to many folks who are new to the topic: why no anesthetic during the procedures? Is there any theory advanced as to why that is? Does it point to these aliens having an intelligence that does not include emotional empathy or something of the sort?

Also, consistent recurring features through the various videos posted here are a) images shown of Earth getting destroyed by its inhabitants, and b) hybrid babies being produced. Is there any theory or, better yet, understanding through contact with the aliens themselves, as to whether these two things are related? I.e. (or e.g.), is a mutant race being prepared in case the Earth gets destroyed so that human-like creatures can be exported to another planet? (A physical planet, and not an ethereal realm, given that these are physical creatures being created, and which the aliens are interested in studying.)


Same here :), but I'm open to investigating.
Almost all those questions can be answered by reading http://amzn.com/B0030AF5D4. I'm not saying those answers are 100% reality, but your questions above are the exact themes covered by the abductees during the regression sessions, which constitutes the bulk of the book.

Short answer to some off the top of my head:

I'm left with the question as to whether the Source Truth is ever actually communicated, telepathically or otherwise, from the aliens themselves. Yes. I believe it is. Keep in mind that many of these folks seem to be living dual lives with one incarnation here on earth and another on "the ship" as it were. So what they may say during the regression is basically their own understanding from the point of the view of the "aliens."

Does it point to these aliens having an intelligence that does not include emotional empathy or something of the sort? No. Often this is quite the opposite and the people of Earth are seen as emotional cave people. A lot of the "aliens" have a more refined emotional sense.

Also, consistent recurring features through the various videos posted here are a) images shown of Earth getting destroyed by its inhabitants, and b) hybrid babies being produced. Is there any theory or, better yet, understanding through contact with the aliens themselves, as to whether these two things are related? I.e. (or e.g.), is a mutant race being prepared in case the Earth gets destroyed so that human-like creatures can be exported to another planet? (A physical planet, and not an ethereal realm, given that these are physical creatures being created, and which the aliens are interested in studying.) This is a main theme and the viewpoint is a little different depending on the abductee. But the gist seems to be that Earth has reached a tipping point and they are here in great numbers to try and tip the balance. Some "aliens" seem to be incarnating as humans. Others trying to influence and educate.

A silly question maybe, but one that I'm sure comes to mind to many folks who are new to the topic: why no anesthetic during the procedures? This week especially I keep getting pointed to ideas of the shamanic journey and the heroes journey and the relationship between these journeys and fear. They is a shamanic idea that during the initiation the physical body of the shaman is ripped to shreds. I'm thinking at the moment that aside from practical reasons if they exist, the medical procedures may be intended to produce fear, to help people remove their self image from that of the idea of being just a physical body. I'm sure that's not the whole picture, but I think it is part of the picture. And some people do feel pain during the procedures. Some people are just horrified and shocked. Others are soothed by the "aliens" and watch with a kind of detached curiosity. But the medical procedure is almost a constant in the abductions, it seems. And yet each person seems to have a different part worked on. Some have their brains probed, some their leg cut to the bone, others have the reproductive system worked on.

I was at a friend's house this week and I was trying to explain to him what it felt like after having spent 6 months or so living and breathing UFOs. Podcasts, reading, viewing--a big percentage of my waking hours. Honestly I don't see how else you could begin to have a feeling for how huge this field is and the variety of viewpoints and the breadth and scope of the reports. I still feel like I know very little. I'm beginning to feel like I can sense some of the edges of the thing. But then there are so many countries whose record of events are not in English.

It's an interesting field.
 

Alex

Administrator
#55
Also, consistent recurring features through the various videos posted here are a) images shown of Earth getting destroyed by its inhabitants, and b) hybrid babies being produced. Is there any theory or, better yet, understanding through contact with the aliens themselves, as to whether these two things are related? I.e. (or e.g.), is a mutant race being prepared in case the Earth gets destroyed so that human-like creatures can be exported to another planet? (A physical planet, and not an ethereal realm, given that these are physical creatures being created, and which the aliens are interested in studying.) This is a main theme and the viewpoint is a little different depending on the abductee. But the gist seems to be that Earth has reached a tipping point and they are here in great numbers to try and tip the balance. Some "aliens" seem to be incarnating as humans. Others trying to influence and educate.
thx for this post. I always have trouble with the way some of this bumps up against the LBL and other enlightenment science (poor term, but what can we do :)) that suggests that everything is always perfect... or at least balanced. I mean, this idea that we have to "do" something... or the the aliens have to "do" something is basically antithetical to the perfect white light thingie.

I come away fro all this thinking that this alien consciousness and the beings behind it are much more like us than different... and more like us than the white light thingie.
 
#56
I have just listened to the latest podcast with Mary Rodwell. She uses hypnotherapy (which does not even exist!) and then states that somehow quantum mechanics and parallel universes foretell of her ludicrous hypotheses. From this tiny bit of information Alex should have withdrawn the interview. He appears to be siding more and more with pseudo-scientists and non-scientists who use pseudo-science to try and give some credence to their 'make-believe' stories.
You can instantly tell that they are making crap up as soon as they mention 'quantum mechanics(QM)', why? Simply put, those who have studied QM, myself included, know how complex and difficult it is to describe just in terms of the mathematical models. Look at those guys and gals at C.E.R.N.(Organisation
européenne pour la recherche nucléaire). Why haven't they come up with this hypothesis? Possibly because it is unfounded rubbish. If parallel universes were responsible for alien abductions and the like, then they would be even less likely to be explanatory. Why? Because the nearest one would be more than 14 billion light years away. Even using the higher dimensional orders of a parallel universe. To have the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th spatial dimensions, they would also need the 1st, 2nd and 3rd dimensions, which we can observe. Current hypotheses on higher dimensions puts these other dimensions in a space smaller than is currently measurable, even with the best colliders we have (which are a type of microscope for really small things, such as particles.). Why does Alex give these crazy people the oxygen of free publicity. The woman is definitely not a scientist and should be viewed with suspicion on everything she believes in.
 
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chuck.drake

#58
I have just listened to the latest podcast with Mary Rodwell. She uses hypnotherapy (which does not even exist!) and then states that somehow quantum mechanics and parallel universes foretell of her ludicrous hypotheses. From this tiny bit of information Alex should have withdrawn the interview. He appears to be siding more and more with pseudo-scientists and non-scientists who use pseudo-science to try and give some credence to their 'make-believe' stories.
You can instantly tell that they are making crap up as soon as they mention 'quantum mechanics(QM)', why? Simply put, those who have studied QM, myself included, know how complex and difficult it is to describe just in terms of the mathematical models. Look at those guys and gals at C.E.R.N.(Organisation
européenne pour la recherche nucléaire). Why haven't they come up with this hypothesis? Possibly because it is unfounded rubbish. If parallel universes were responsible for alien abductions and the like, then they would be even less likely to be explanatory. Why? Because the nearest one would be more than 14 billion light years away. Even using the higher dimensional orders of a parallel universe. To have the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th spatial dimensions, they would also need the 1st, 2nd and 3rd dimensions, which we can observe. Current hypotheses on higher dimensions puts these other dimensions in a space smaller than is currently measurable, even with the best colliders we have (which are a type of microscope for really small things, such as particles.). Why does Alex give these crazy people the oxygen of free publicity. The woman is definitely not a scientist and should be viewed with suspicion on everything she believes in.
These folks are experiencing something compelling. Mary Rodwell, John Mack, Bud Hopkins and many others have worked with them and recorded their thoughts and experiences for others to study as well. There is clearly an actual experience behind the alien abduction phenomena, but I don't think anyone here is claiming to understand what it is.

I think it is kind of silly to automatically dismiss anyone who brings up QM. And this happens all the time. Oh, they mentioned QM--automatically everything they say is BS. That's really a ridiculous stance. If your mind isn't open enough to understand that abduction is an existing phenomena and that we need to at least listen to the folks who are working in depth on the issue, then you probably don't belong in this thread, which is MOD+. Create a new thread and argue your point there.
 
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chuck.drake

#59
thx for this post. I always have trouble with the way some of this bumps up against the LBL and other enlightenment science (poor term, but what can we do :)) that suggests that everything is always perfect... or at least balanced. I mean, this idea that we have to "do" something... or the the aliens have to "do" something is basically antithetical to the perfect white light thingie.

I come away fro all this thinking that this alien consciousness and the beings behind it are much more like us than different... and more like us than the white light thingie.
Yeah. I agree. I was basically relating Ian's questions with what I have been reading in Mack's Abduction. I don't personally come to any conclusions on this stuff. But I think it is important to take it in, get it past the filter as it were.
 
#60
Yes, but nothing she says makes any sense. She just threw out Quantum, without any understanding of it at all. She says she uses hypnotherapy, which we all know is made up nonsense. There is nothing she says that adds to the human extent of knowledge. Why doesn't she publish her hypotheses in the scientific media? Or even psychology journals (who may be slightly more sympathetic to these outlandish views)? Saying that there is something going on here is infantile and without any basis at all. If I make stuff up, add some words like 'higher dimensions' or 'quantum theory', that doesn't make any of it valid or true. There are lots of things going on that I don't understand, but saying that they are aliens or Jesus is not an explanation whatsoever, it is a belief in something that cannot be verified. Like my unicorn farm. Although they are invisible it doesn't mean that you can disprove them. See what I mean? That woman was a crank. I do not know if she is an outright fraud or just self-deluded, but I do have a feeling that she is more the former than the latter. Although I have no evidence of either but she is definitely one of those. Maybe Alex should ask them to honestly answer the question, "Are you a con-artist, or do you really believe in your strange hypotheses?" "Also please give evidence for your position". But Alex has failed in his vetting. I found it rather absurd that this woman was on. Similarly to that guy who said he was the reincarnation of some saint or other a few years ago (He was nuts).
 
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