To attempt to generate another parallel conversation, which goes to the heart of what I think this podcast is about, I have to say the discussion got especially interesting to me, around 44 min, when Alex brought up the larger point of our involvement in worldly issues (action) and its relation to growth of spirituality or "enlightenment".
Alex to Rick:
And then Rick makes a nuanced, interesting reply in his own right.
Whether we're talking about political or worldly action, or "simpler", day-to-day/ordinary life "action" vs. inward-looking self-growth, there are so many divergent, even opposite viewpoints across religious & spiritual traditions. Partly by temperament, partly by what feels persuasive to me, I'm more inclined towards the viewpoint Alex is defending here, even though in my own life my work happens to be directed towards practically helping people. But it's always a puzzle/mystery. Possibly there are many paths, and perhaps people have different "destinies" in this fashion.
To play the devil's advocate (toward myself and Alex), I'd have to challenge here a bit and say: but the spiritual "data" that comes from NDEs, mediumship, etc., does not all point towards an "inward", let-the-world-be direction. A lot of it is: concentrate on good deeds, on doing unselfish things. (But then you have the other experiences that point towards a completely different standpoint: never mind the deeds, don't "force" anything, just start by accepting and loving yourself as you are and everything will unfold from there as it should be).
For example, getting acquainted with some of the 19th century/early 20th cent Spiritualist literature (meaning mediumistic communications), I was struck at how a lot
harder a lot of this stuff is morally on us than a lot of religious doctrines. To take one example: Allan Kardec and
The Spirits Book, which is very esteemed by the Spiritist/Spiritualist crowd and those who study that material (including Michael Tymn). Take a gander at one of the question-and-spirit-answers in the book that I think relates directly to what's at stake in this podcast:
Does anybody else find this completely insane? Personally, I find this really off-putting, and I just don't buy it. (Regarding a lot of the Spiritualist literature, I'm put in the paradoxical and awkward position of accepting the reality of [some] mental and physical mediumship, while not buying some of the "moral" messages that come through within those same communications, and not buying into the superpsi explanations either.)
And you find similar viewpoints across NDEs as well.
I don't know if anybody else has any thoughts they'd want to share on this line of inquiry.
Oh, and happy new year.