Mod+ 241. JOSEPH ATWILL RESPONDS TO CAESAR’S MESSIAH CRITICS

I believe the bigotry begins as soon as you associate the group as being the problem.

You don't solve Russian alcoholism by studying Russians. You might learn alot, but that's not where the solutions is.
You don't solve Black American violence by studying Black Americans. You might learn alot, but that's not where the solutions is...

nice!

I think we can get there from spiritual science also:

- reincarnation science -- you're not who you think you are. your identification with a racial group, a gender, or a bloodline is suspect... it's temporal and insignificant within the bigger picture.

- near death experience science -- the light always shines and it's within you. you know the right thing and are compelled to do it. your soul is the judge if you your soul.

- mathematics... some infinities are bigger than others :) -- the good, the light, the love, is bigger than the dark.
 
Returning to a discussion of Atwill and his work and enough with Jan the whipping-boy/scapegoat...

It's been said by some in the know that even the alt-media (aside from the MSM) are for the most part controlled. Respected conspiracy researcher Giovanni Augustine Cirucci (Johnny to the rest of us) is just one among very few I've come across who speaks of this, another being Jan Irvin, who split ways with Joe Atwill, upon believing him to be a CIA operative.

To his credit, Atwill on past shows of his has done a lot of good, as Alex has, in shining a light on the more sinister and perverted elements of the control system. Atwill, for example, has done episodes on 'Pizza Gate' and 'Pedowood,' so clearly he is not out to conceal this type of wrongdoing on the part of the elites in power.

Still, Irvin, among only a few other conspiracy researchers I am aware of, tell of the alt-media being something like 70% truth/30% disinformation. In other words, we're dealing with crafty little devils.

If Atwill is a CIA agent (I for one don't know and cannot say), there are those who might point to his Caesar's Messiah as being the thirty percent bunk, in this case. Curiously, this is a book that Alex is apparently rather fond of, in his having Atwill on his podcast more than twice to promote it and sounding like he's on the same page as his guest.

To me, whether Christ was an historical figure or not is inconsequential and, admittedly, I do find it odd that not much is spoken of him outside of holy canon, although books like The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel (someone I don't think would ever be welcomed on Alex's show) definitely provide some persuasive counterpoint.

There is just something that doesn't sit well with me about Caesar's Messiah, however. It seems written as if a hit piece, with perhaps its primary intent being to discredit the Bible/benevolent supernaturalism. Interestingly, this is activity that's been said bears the markings of the Society of Jesus (Atwill himself has admitted on one podcast episode of his that as a kid he was schooled by Jesuit teachers), and in Cirucci's book, Eaters of Children, the author expresses his opinion of Atwill, believing him to be a Jesuit agent...incidentally, Jesuits are also thought to have been behind the creation of Darwinism and who in turn control the CIA, or so according to some conspiracy researchers. (It's reported that even a recent Pope has come out in support of evolutionary theory.)

All said, I happen to like much of Atwill's work nevertheless, save for this book of his. However, it's something that I keep in the back of my mind with respect to him.

We all pretty much agree that evil exists in the world and that among the elites Luciferianism/theistic Satanism is practiced, but I suppose there are those who have difficulty believing in their supernatural antithesis, opting instead to side with the scientific materialists whenever it suits them.
 
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Returning to a discussion of Atwill and his work and enough with Jan the whipping-boy/scapegoat...
I wasn't using Jan as a Whipping Boy. I just asked if he's still a holohoaxer. I think that's a fair question. It's kind of a litmus test question. I asked Atwill if he's a holohoaxer and he said no... and he was surprised to learn that Jan is.
 
Here is but a sample of what appears to be a plethora of critical reviews of Atwill's work I've come across in recent days in my seemingly futile search for a receptive Christian apologist to recommend to Alex come on the show in faith-filled response to Joe's cynical masterwork of sophistry. It is to be noted that none of these three reviewers are orthodox in their beliefs regarding the Bible/Christianity themselves, and as such would not be my own choice to have come on as I'm more interested in what a respected and educated Christian minister/scholar would argue and yet they likely hold to the same opinion as what's expressed in paragraph one of Rochford's critique, thus probably feel no need to waste their time with what is so blatantly spurious and an insult to their intelligence.

Link to Robert M. Price's review
Review - Atwill's Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus by Robert M. Price (mindvendor.com)
Link to Danila Oder's review
Review of Caesar's Messiah by Joseph Atwill | by Danila Oder (thetwogospelsofmark.com)
Link to James Rochford's review
A Critique of Joseph Atwill’s “Caesar’s Messiah” | Evidence Unseen

Any comments...?
 
Now that you mention Atwill, how about Kelly Bulkeley? He has a huge dream database (not as big as mine though) and studies paranormal dreams as they relate to spiritual/religious topics. My impression is that he is more interested in the spiritual side of it than the paranormal end. That said, I met him briefly at the Parapsychological Association's conference in Rolduc, the Netherlands. I should also mention that he was annoyed with my citation of his work in one of my papers because I had the impression his position was to debunk paranormal experience. After looking over his letter, it seems possible he is just very cautious with his reporting. So much so that it is hard to tell which side he is on.
 
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