Mod+ 249. TIM FREKE ON SOUL CRUSHING SCIENCE

#41
Destroyed? That's a bit harsh, don't you think? :)
In the longer term I think 'destroyed' may be quite accurate. There are a lot of extremely contentious areas of science, where hype and ambition seems to have over-ruled common sense. Take the Human Brain Project for example:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-28309940

If you read around this, it is clear that a lot of neuroscientists are objecting to this project because they know it will fail. In their heart of hearts, they know just how little we understand about how the brain produces consciousness, and don't want to be associated with a billion dollar fiasco!

David
 

Alex

Administrator
#43
Hmm . .

- Although I happen to align with many of the positions expressed in the interview, TBH it wasn't so much "Freke examining" as Tsakiris nudging Freke in various directions. Almost every "question" is like "leading the witness." I almost felt that if Tsakiris said "Don't you just love that shade of blue", Freke would have waxed eloquently about what a lovely shade it was indeed.
you're not giving Freke nearly enough credit... the guy is a very deep thinker as expressed in his many books and video presentations.
 
#44
Boy Alex this was a particularly good interview. You were both ON, and there seemed to be a real chemistry between the two of you. Did you experience it that way?

>Should we be forgiving/understanding about science as we know it, or take a more critical stance?

Given the clear message of the interview --both!

We have to forgive the inevitable fallibility of humans, and human institutions and see ourselves in the mirror of that fallibility, but at the same time its critically important that we help each other stay as honest as possible. Especially with something as important as science which holds the survival of life in its hands.

It seems to me that all paradigms have a life cycle that moves towards some kind of ossification. Where pedestrian concerns like jobs, status, ego and money etc.. start overwhelming the initial positive stuff that cause the paradigm to take root and take off in the first place. So now we see increasing numbers of scandals where scientists subvert and just pay lip service to scientific method; falsifying research, acting like dogmatists, etc.. for career and ego reasons. Worse materialism has ended up being a nightmare metaphysical basis for science. How many scientists ever ask themselves moral should kinds of questions? We have to call them on all this stuff but somehow as brothers and sisters rather than antagonists.

You know it just occurred to me that Dr. John Ioannidis might be a great interview in which to address some of these issues as part of your ongoing project re. science

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/308269/

This is a good book that addresses some aspects of the topic of morality, or lack there of, in science.

http://www.amazon.com/World-Laboratory-Experiments-Mice-Mazes/dp/0809074648

Bob
 

Alex

Administrator
#45
Boy Alex this was a particularly good interview. You were both ON, and there seemed to be a real chemistry between the two of you. Did you experience it that way?
yes :) Tim Freke is a deep and impressive thinker.

You know it just occurred to me that Dr. John Ioannidis might be a great interview in which to address some of these issues as part of your ongoing project re. science

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/308269/
thx for reminding me about this great bit of research. may I suggest that you contact him and see if he'd like to come on Skeptiko.
 
#46
I oughta stick to my knitting :)
I'm not sure I take your meaning, Alex. If by any chance you thought I meant you couldn't handle an interview focusing on what's gone wrong with AGW science, with no mention of psi/spirituality, I don't think that at all: matter of fact, I think you'd do a terrific job. I'd be happy to try to make initial contacts with either of the people I mentioned should you so wish. Of the two, I think Judith Curry would give the most balanced interview.
 
#47
> may I suggest that you contact him and see if he'd like to come on Skeptiko.

Sure. Id be happy to but I have never done anything like that. Do you have a "How to contact potential Skeptiko guests?" post somewhere?
 
#48
> may I suggest that you contact him and see if he'd like to come on Skeptiko.

Sure. Id be happy to but I have never done anything like that. Do you have a "How to contact potential Skeptiko guests?" post somewhere?
I'd suggest finding his Web site if he has one: there's usually a contact email. If no Web site, you can often find a contact email at the place of work. I found some contact details here, for example:

https://med.stanford.edu/profiles/john-ioannidis
 
#49
Thanks Michael. Here is what I sent him.

Hi Dr. Loannidis

I have been an admirer of your work since first reading about it in the Atlantic magazine profile of you. A science interview website I frequent, Skeptiko.com, has an ongoing theme of interviewing top scientists and researchers to discuss with them issues and solutions related to the way science is done in the real world.

The host, Alex Tsakiris, has asked his regular listeners to make initial contact with people they think would make good show guests, which is the purpose of this email. I am sure your work on the problems you have uncovered in drug research would be very interesting and informative to Skeptiko's audience. Would you be interested in being interviewed on Skeptiko? If so how should they contact you?

Thanks for your consideration.
 

Alex

Administrator
#50
I'm not sure I take your meaning, Alex. If by any chance you thought I meant you couldn't handle an interview focusing on what's gone wrong with AGW science, with no mention of psi/spirituality, I don't think that at all: matter of fact, I think you'd do a terrific job. I'd be happy to try to make initial contacts with either of the people I mentioned should you so wish. Of the two, I think Judith Curry would give the most balanced interview.
Hi Michael... I just meant that I generally like to stay focused on the consciousness/psi/spiritual. My foray into AGW was aimed at hashing things out with my pal Rick Archer. I actually booked Curry for the show but she backed out at the last minute... probably saw too many shows on UFOs :)
 

Alex

Administrator
#51
> may I suggest that you contact him and see if he'd like to come on Skeptiko.

Sure. Id be happy to but I have never done anything like that. Do you have a "How to contact potential Skeptiko guests?" post somewhere?
sure Bob... I will send PM.
 
#52
Thanks Michael. Here is what I sent him.

Hi Dr. Loannidis

I have been an admirer of your work since first reading about it in the Atlantic magazine profile of you. A science interview website I frequent, Skeptiko.com, has an ongoing theme of interviewing top scientists and researchers to discuss with them issues and solutions related to the way science is done in the real world.

The host, Alex Tsakiris, has asked his regular listeners to make initial contact with people they think would make good show guests, which is the purpose of this email. I am sure your work on the problems you have uncovered in drug research would be very interesting and informative to Skeptiko's audience. Would you be interested in being interviewed on Skeptiko? If so how should they contact you?

Thanks for your consideration.
Concise and polite. Please let us know how things pan out.
 
#53
Hi Michael... I just meant that I generally like to stay focused on the consciousness/psi/spiritual. My foray into AGW was aimed at hashing things out with my pal Rick Archer. I actually booked Curry for the show but she backed out at the last minute... probably saw too many shows on UFOs :)
Oh, what a pity. If you mentioned previously that you invited her and she declined, I must have forgotten it. I could try to change her mind if you wanted: she once published a guest post of mine on her blog and I just might be able to help her reconsider by employing a bit of Larkin-fu. Anyway, you only have to say the word and I'll have a go.
 
#55
Oh, what a pity. If you mentioned previously that you invited her and she declined, I must have forgotten it. I could try to change her mind if you wanted: she once published a guest post of mine on her blog and I just might be able to help her reconsider by employing a bit of Larkin-fu. Anyway, you only have to say the word and I'll have a go.
How many bloggers have posted your writing as an official part of their blog? I know you have that piece on Bernardo's site too. You also have commentary on this forum that people should be paying to read. It's scandalous. I think it's time you start your own blog (hell, even Linda has a blog).

Don't think you're so special though.
 
C

chuck.drake

#56
How many bloggers have posted your writing as an official part of their blog? I know you have that piece on Bernardo's site too. You also have commentary on this forum that people should be paying to read. It's scandalous. I think it's time you start your own blog (hell, even Linda has a blog).

Don't think you're so special though.
What doesn't Linda do? She's amazing. Does anyone have a comprehensive list?
 
#57
How many bloggers have posted your writing as an official part of their blog? I know you have that piece on Bernardo's site too. You also have commentary on this forum that people should be paying to read. It's scandalous. I think it's time you start your own blog (hell, even Linda has a blog)'
I can't be arsed having a blog. Much easier to post at already successful ones. I didn't study parasitology at university for nothing, you know.
Don't think you're so special though.
Would that mean you don't think I'm so special, or is it in the imperative mood? If the former, not that I mind, but it contradicts what you said in your first para. If the latter, you're too late: I've been telling myself that for years, albeit with mixed results.

BTW, if you want to read a blogger that I really like but who's never given me a lead post, check out Pointman: http://thepointman.wordpress.com/
 
#58
How many bloggers have posted your writing as an official part of their blog? I know you have that piece on Bernardo's site too. You also have commentary on this forum that people should be paying to read. It's scandalous. I think it's time you start your own blog (hell, even Linda has a blog).

Don't think you're so special though.
What's Linda's blog?
 
#59
I've read some his his work and I liked it. I think he has a good grasp of mysticism. It was a good interview.

HIs both/and approach is similar to mine, and he values the scholarship of Jung and Campbell so that makes him a kindred spirit.

He tries to be both hard on science and easy on it, and I like that because science, even though it is laced with reductionism, is still part of the whole cosmic alchemy going on as Pisces closes and Aquarius begins.
 
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