Cool. We have a jumping off point. We can agree that to start there.
I think I need to take a break from this place. The air has become too dense. It is getting less and less often that I see or participate in a civil, open, enlightening conversation that advances understanding. To do so takes way too much effort. Maybe it's just the nature of these on-line communities, I don't know.
When I read conversation this weekend that sounded like people commenting about animals at the zoo, and saw that they were actually talking about people who didn't share their particular views on the nature of things, that was enough for me.
I hope you continue your work. It is important.
My very best.