David Bailey
Member
I think this is part of the weakness of the materialist position. Unless they go to the extremes and deny consciousness and/or free will, they are forced to say that some configurations of matter are conscious. However, ideas of consciousness are routinely excluded from the rest of science.Not necessarily.
Most materialists believe that consciousness is an effect produced by certain processes under certain conditions.
The potential for the effect is inherent in the structure of the universe, but that does not mean the effect itself is present, other than as a potentiality.
From the proposition that the universe can produce consciousness (as an effect) it does not follow that the universe is conscious.
If someone said that a certain protease hates other proteins and enjoys destroying them, it would be taken either as a joke, or as completely absurd. This is not even a question of complexity, the idea that the earth might get angry and cause volcanic eruptions or earthquakes would be equally objectionable. Consciousness is only included in materialistic science where it is absolutely unavoidable - in the human brain - there are even those who would deny animals have consciousness!
Well I think Idealism is still a real possibility, because rather like Newtonian gravitation is a good approximation to General Relativity, so it may be that dualism is a good approximation to Idealism. Just as science had to develop via the simple theory, I think a better theory of consciousness would involve Dualism, even though that could ultimately be absorbed into Idealism.Personally I think NDEs are evidence against the proposition that the universe is conscious.
To me they indicate that consciousness is distinct from the material universe.
Clearly however, NDE's make materialism impossible once people stop quibbling over whether they are 'real'. That is why they are contested so fiercely.
David