lighter_than_air
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ayeah, and I agree with the pragmatism in this... i.e. it would be great if we could rely on everyone doing the right thing, but...
me too!
ayeah, and I agree with the pragmatism in this... i.e. it would be great if we could rely on everyone doing the right thing, but...
But people who think science is the only way to obtain information about the universe are believers in the religion of Scientism. They ignore all of history before the scientific revolution when people developed knowledge and technology without the use of randomized double blind experiments. The best example of this is to consider what would happen if a believer of Scientism became lost in the desert or in a jungle. He would be dead in a day or two unless prescientific aborigines found him and showed him how to survive.
...But people who think science is the only way to obtain information about the universe are believers in the religion of Scientism. They ignore all of history before the scientific revolution when people developed knowledge and technology without the use of randomized double blind experiments. The best example of this is to consider what would happen if a believer of Scientism became lost in the desert or in a jungle. He would be dead in a day or two unless prescientific aborigines found him and showed him how to survive.
But people who think science is the only way to obtain information about the universe are believers in the religion of Scientism. They ignore all of history before the scientific revolution when people developed knowledge and technology without the use of randomized double blind experiments. The best example of this is to consider what would happen if a believer of Scientism became lost in the desert or in a jungle. He would be dead in a day or two unless prescientific aborigines found him and showed him how to survive.
Nearly six centuries after it was completed, the dome of Santa Maria del Fiore cathedral in Florence—a cathedral known around the world simply as il Duomo—remains that city's icon and greatest pride. Built without flying buttresses or freestanding scaffolding, using experimental methods that many contemporaries believed would surely fail, the 150-foot-wide (46-meter-wide) dome effectively ignited the creative explosion known as the Renaissance.
A modern understanding of physical laws and the mathematical tools for calculating stresses were centuries in the future. Brunelleschi, like all cathedral builders, had to rely on intuition and whatever he could learn from the large scale models he built. To lift 37,000 tons of material, including over 4 million bricks, he invented hoisting machines and lewissons for hoisting large stones. These specially designed machines and his structural innovations were Brunelleschi's chief contribution to architecture. Although he was executing an aesthetic plan made half a century earlier, it is his name, rather than Neri's, that is commonly associated with the dome.
John Horgan took his shtick into the bear pit, speaking at the end of this year's NECSS. Novella's response is here and hopefully demonstrates that Skepticism is starting to move beyond its critics:
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/john-horgan-is-skeptical-of-skeptics/
If the multiverse serves as a model that might accumulate evidence, why can't the same be said for astrology?
Where do skeptics get their expertise to deal with the issues of homeopathy and GMOs? Because it seems one would have to have some requisite coursework to claim expertise?
I don't doubt Skeptics debate things like the simulation hypothesis and the multiverse, but Skepticism has things it wants to be true, and these ideas about how the world works are canon its adherents play missionary for. And the latter has been used by skeptics to try and get around questions relating to fine-tuning and the potential relationship between consciousness and quantum mechanics.
I think in the same way science is - as David Bailey put it - better when making applicable technologies so too is Skepticism as a movement better when focusing on problems in scientific investigation. Sadly the movement, perhaps in some cases better classified as a religion given the push for metaphysical assertions, seems to have missed quite a few of those problems when outside their pet issues like homeopathy or Psi.
No reason at all. Every model needs to be assessed on it's merits. As I understand it the multiverse is a mathematical model (and my math ability is too limited to judge its merits). Would there be an astrological model based on maths? If not, based on what? The notion that our lives are influenced by the stars in the sky seems a testable claim on the face of it. Oh, here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology_and_science.
I agree that some reading in these areas is necessary before forming a confident opinion on any subject. The evidence seems pretty much in on homeopathy (e.g. http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/homeopathy-ineffective-study-concludes) even Horgan considers it a "soft" target. Have we got a thread on GMOs? What are your concerns?
We must meet different "Skeptics"... Most I meet and talk to, including those on this forum, are pretty humble in these areas.
You might be right. George Hrab labelled Jamy Ian Swiss his "Religious Moron of the Week" in a recent podcast, specifically over the way he treated Horgan after his talk at NECSS. Skeptics need to be alert to the dangers of dogmatism... I think (hope?) the good ones are.
OK. We're not that far apart here. You have a distrust of "big S" Skepticism. I think it can be a helpful way to approach the world but I agree some "Skeptics" can be closed-minded dicks. Some proponents of immaterialism can be closed-minded dicks with knee jerk reactions to anything "mainstream science" (whatever that is) offers up... Does that mean Bernardo is wrong? Where does that leave us? I've no idea...Well I don't follow astrology but I can see various metaphysics where it can end up working for people. I'm happy to take a neutral position on it, at most I think we can look at the ways people might rationalize to themselves it's working when it isn't.
For reference though I'll note Braude did write an essay on astrology. As to how it works - depends on how you think causation & time works. For example Weiss' metaphysics would easily allow astrology, and it seems a possibility under Bernardo's.
Skeptics are humble about intelligent design, fine tuning, the nature of consciousness? Not in my experience.
As for the future of the movement the problem is one can be skeptical about different things to different degrees. I think over time this - in tandem with movements away from a scientific consensus on our remaining mysteries - will fracture the skeptical movement just as differing interests fractured the New Atheist movement.
OK. We're not that far apart here. You have a distrust of "big S" Skepticism. I think it can be a helpful way to approach the world but I agree some "Skeptics" can be closed-minded dicks. Some proponents of immaterialism can be closed-minded dicks with knee jerk reactions to anything "mainstream science" (whatever that is) offers up... Does that mean Bernardo is wrong? Where does that leave us? I've no idea...
If education is the problem - the "skepticism is about method not conclusions" assertion - then the target should be critical thinking skills skeptics, proponents, academic theists, pagans, etc should be able to agree on? After that present arguments for different sides of the Hard Problem of Consciousness, the different interpretations of quantum mechanics, various metaphysical questions.